Heritage_Head
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Posts posted by Heritage_Head
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Home theater has continously grown throughout the years. First came stereo TV sets, then the first home surround sound receiver systems, these used the usual towers for fronts and had 2 tiny little surround speakers that came with the new surround sound receivers, these 2 surround sound speakers were powered with about 10 watts and the center channel was not supplied any power it was usually intended that you use your TV's own speakers for the center channel sound. These early systems had horrible timbre matching.
Lol that reminds me of the audio source surround sound processor
I bought in the mid-90s. Junk would be a complement when describing it. It also
cost me like $400 bucks if I recall. [:@]
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Ideally for sound quality all the speakers would be identical (except the sub), however in 99% of homes this would be absolutely impossible and completely out of the question or just impractical for most people and if this was the way home theater speakers were designed there probably wouldn't even be any home theater today as too few people would do this to their homes.
Disagree slightly. Why couldn't Klipsch just make cheaper versions of it's THX system? No bulky towers and you could use different drivers, tweeters, crossovers etc to cut cost down the line.
The thx system is 100% built for ht. The floor standing designs
are for both ht and 2 channel. And I’m honestly a little surprised they haven’t
built a smaller more affordable version.
I'd be down for a THX Select II HT from Klipsch!
I think the center is kind of the deal breaker in that
system in most set ups. Plus imo you could spend way less than that buy
internet direct subs and have a better set up. I have heard thx system and it does
sound great though.
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Ideally for sound quality all the speakers would be identical (except the sub), however in 99% of homes this would be absolutely impossible and completely out of the question or just impractical for most people and if this was the way home theater speakers were designed there probably wouldn't even be any home theater today as too few people would do this to their homes.
Disagree slightly. Why couldn't Klipsch just make cheaper versions of it's THX system? No bulky towers and you could use different drivers, tweeters, crossovers etc to cut cost down the line.
The thx system is 100% built for ht. The floor standing designs
are for both ht and 2 channel. And I’m honestly a little surprised they haven’t
built a smaller more affordable version.
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I assuming this system doesn't sound right either without a "normal" center channel speaker?
I think you're missing the point. Sounds like jasonjcarney is arguing that 3 identical across the front isn't hands down better than the above setup with that company's equivalent center channel...he never said it was worse.
I tend to side with jasonjcarney for a slightly different reason. I have an extremely hard time believing most people can hear a difference when it comes down to it. Eyes closed i don't believe most people would identify a fronstage consisting of 2 RF-7's and a RC64 as being "worse" than 3 RF-7's. The "real theaters don't use specially designed center channels" argument is garbage to me because the majority of nice theaters sound inferior to a well designed home theater.
I personally have a hard time reading through audio threads in particular. One man's "huge improvement" is another man's "I don't hear a difference". I don't like to discount science and specs and numbers, but when I fire up a movie or crank up some tunes, I'm not looking at charts and graphs.
I know you guys disagree with eachother, but as far as I'm concerned jasonjcarney's word resonates a bit more with me after admitting a $700 amp didn't do much of anything in his setup. Takes a real solid dude to say that after dropping a fat wad on something everyone else claims blew them away with improvement.
On a side note, why does it seem Klipsch went against conventional thinking with the THX system? Smaller form factor, no dedicated center speaker...why not start there and make cheaper versions down the product line and ditch the whole tower speaker/center channel combo altogether?
Did Jason send the amp back for a refund? Because if he can’t
hear a difference then I’m sure he has. I know i would have sent mine back if I
didn’t notice an improvement. I’m not going to take a side on the 3 mains is
better or worse. I’m just going to say that 3 identical speakers will have a
better chance of sounding the same. That
doesn’t guarantee it will sound better to everyone. The rc-52ii imo wouldn’t hold
a candle to the floor standing rf-52ii. So 3 rf-52ii would be better. But imo an
rc-62ii would be pretty close to an rf-62ii. So probably wouldn’t hear much
difference. I do however know that 3 rf-7ii would definitely be better than 2 with
an rc-64ii (even though the 64 is amazing). The rf-7ii can do everything the
rc-64ii can and more. It’s just a more dynamic speaker top to bottom. Bigger speakers just have an advantage over
smaller ones when the quality is equal (Fact). But when the size is close and
the materials are close I don’t think there would be a noticeable difference.
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Lol [
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You were right about the increase of 3db every x 2 of power.[
] Just not the starting point because of the distance and the way they (speaker manufactures)
measure the sensitivity is different than real world applications.
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Will have to check that out. Never would have guessed it dropping that much.
Plus they don’t rate the sensitivity with a full 20-20,000
Hz signal. Most ratings are only measured at 1 kHz. So when you’re running a
full signal 1 watt isn’t going to come close to hitting 100db. -
Rc-7 isn’t voiced matched to the rf-5 (timbre matched) to
begin with. Rc-3 would be a match.
You might want to check again - Link The RC-7 is the center that is voice matched to the RF-5's.
I stand corrected.
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Turn up your test signal tell you have a 100db from 3 feet away
(1 watt 1 meter). Then go back to 11-12’ away (my measurements). And you will
see that 100db drop to around 80-85db depending on room size and acoustics that
can vary a lot but you get my point.
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I sit 11ft from my speakers. Maybe I'm wrong but I wouldn't think that it would go from 121db to 80db in 7ft.
No it would go from 100db to 80-85db at 1 watt from one meter.
Get a db meter out and check I have. -
Dont take this the wrong way reference head but I don't think you are listening at levels that require 200 watts of power. This is a quote from the OSHA standards:
OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) has developed recommendations for how much noise is permissible in the workplace and how long one can work in various levels of noise. For ears that are not protected by ear plugs, ear muffs, noise defenders, etc., the allowed exposure time decreases by one-half for each 5 dB. increase in the average noise level present. "Exposure is limited to 8 hours at 90 dB., 4 hours at 95 dB., and 2 hours at 100 dB. The highest permissible noise exposure for the unprotected ear is 115 dB. for 15 minutes/day. Any noise above 140 dB. is not permitted...individual hearing protectors are required when noise averages more than 90dB during an 8 hour day."
Based on the numbers youthman put up then if you were using even 100 watts of actual power then you would be damaging your ears. I think maybe people drop $800-$900 on an amp and want to justify the expense. If your room is huge and your 40 feet from the speaker then the extra wattage may actually mean something. But there isn't a person on this forum sitting more than 15 feet from their speakers. Not saying you specifically but in general.Yes there are moments in movies that get really loud but
they normally only last a few minutes. Then it’s followed by long stretches of
much quitter dialog and back ground music. So if you watch a 2 hour movie you
might get 15min of spots that hit 110-115db. Then it’s back to around 80-85db. So
it’s not like you’re getting hit nonstop with 115db that would cause ear
damage. You could hit those numbers with an avr but 110-115db with an avr and you
would be pushing that thing to its limit. Plus youths numbers are wrong (sorry
youth) -
But if you like to listen to stuff at about 100 watts or
more average per channel
If I've done my math correctly (Bill knows how good I am at math LOL), my RF-83's will produce 121db with 100 watts of true power. 121db average listening will surely make you deaf.
1 watt = 100db
2 watt = 103db
4 watt = 106db
8 watt = 109db
16 watt = 112db
32 watt = 115db
64 watt = 118db
128 watt = 121db
Now that is only one speaker being driven. When you add more drivers and speakers, I believe the db increases even higher.
The rf-83 is 100db at 1 watt measured from 1 meter away (only
little more than 3ft). You probably sit way further away than 1 meter. They would
probably measure about 80-85db from 10ft away (if that). That’s with just the
rf-83 going mind you.
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If you have the room and an extra pair of rf-63 sitting
around collecting dust I’m sure they would work great. But if I was you I would
sell everything and buy this [6]
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Is there another center out there that would be timber matched or work really well with rf-5's?
Rc-7 isn’t voiced matched to the rf-5 (timbre matched) to
begin with. Rc-3 would be a match. -
Bingo. Maybe in a large room type a difference would b more evident.tell you the truth I cant hear a difference between my onkyo 3007 and the emotiva xpa-5. Guess I'm not playing my system loud enough.
Wow, there's an honest (and rare) opinion! Unless you are driving the amp to clipping and the amp can handle the impedence of the speakers, you probably won't notice. I don't either.
Interesting...Do you think this is do to some (not all) people "hearing" the amount of money they spent on an amp versus an actual improvement?
Depends on how loud you listen to your system. Personally I crank
it up pretty loud. It’s just easier to watch at reference levels with more
power. A 200x5 amp gives 1,000 watts total. An avr is more like 120x2 which is
240 watts total. I think some avrs are better than others when it comes to
power. So the upgrade will be more with some than others. I think my avr was
bench tested in a review at only about 45x5 watts (it’s a 2k retail avr. Paid
only 1100 though). I did read a denon
avr review that benched close to about 70x5 so it varies a little. But if someone
watches movies at an average of only about 1 -10 watts per channel. Then the
avr would be plenty. But if you like to listen to stuff at about 100 watts or
more average per channel then you would want that extra 100 watts per channel
of head room for the loud parts of movies. In my system I noticed a huge difference
when watching movies. But when just watching tv at normal listening levels I don’t
hear any difference. So an amp isn’t for everyone.
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Hi,
I have a huge space constraint due to which I cannot go for floor standers. I've decided on RB 61 ii as front L/R speakers which will be placed inside my TV cabinet. Now I would request your suggestions in choosing the centre channel speaker. Which one of RC-52 ii and RC-62 ii would you all suggest based on your experience with Klipsch reference products. This would be my first Klipsch purchase. Curently am using Energy Take classic 5.1 speaker package with an Onkyo SR-608. I'd been reading through various blogs/forums and have finally decided on Klipsch. Request your thoughts and opinions.
Thanks,
Anil
First I must say great choice deciding on klipsch. I have
owned both those centers (old series) and must say that the rc-62 is a huge
upgrade over the rc-52. Plus if you get
the rb-61ii the rc-62ii will be a good match in that you will have matching
drivers across the front stage (all 6 ½ drivers).
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I have mine about 14” out but use to have them only about 5
or 6”. I only changed them because the svs sub i bought is so deep I had to
pull everything out so it all matched (even). To me ears they sound the same.
http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Reference_head -
You didn’t say if it’s the back wall or side wall? But regardless
3 or 4” is plenty of space. Can you show a pic of the spot?
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Jason how do the rf-7ii fit and sound vs the rf-63? Are you as happy as me with the sound? (I think they sound just like the rc-64ii just a little bigger and better)
I will deffinately take some shots and review the rf7ii's soon. Currently they are in my garage. I am awaiting assistance to move them to my basement theatre. I have about 10 movies and maybe 15 hours of sports and gaming on the 63's for comparison sake. I was having issues with one of my subs so getting my system optimized has been a challenge. Just have not had much time at all due to the baby. I can tell you that going from the rc52ii to the rc64ii was night and day. It actually put a smile on my face. Can't say the same about going from the rf62ii's to the rf63's. I don't listen to any music so the mains get kinda put off to the side so to speak because most of the sound is coming from my center channel. I also have a small room. As for fit...they are 3 inches less deep than the 63's so with that and the 8 inches I gained by going to bookshelf surrounds the 7ii's should have plenty of room .
I'll give this opinion now and maybe the 7ii's will add to it later. I went from polk monitor 60's to the synergy f2's to the f3's to the rf62ii's to the rf63's. I noticed a difference going from the synergy line to the RF line in clarity. But I think that in my case (with a small room such as I have) I honestly could have stopped at the rf62ii's and been completely happy. I did not see the rf63's as an upgrade at all. Again that's is in a small room with 2 very powerful subs. There is an increase in low end in the 63's but that is just not noticable during normal listening for HT. Maybe in 2 channel stereo with my subs off but again I don't listen to music. My friend has a set of rf62ii's in a much bigger room than mine and when I get a chance I am going to have a listen. I am hoping the larger tweets in the 7ii's will make a big difference but im not holding my breath. I love the looks of the 7ii's and if the sound does not improve from my 63's I still won't be disappointed.
Some great spots in movies to really hear the mains shine is
in the credits. I personally have my
center set at 0db and my mains set at +2.5db. Giving them a bigger bump helps
create a bigger sound stage and pushes the horn to give a more announced detailed
sound (imho). It helps that the rc-64ii doesn’t need to be turned way up to perform.
With my rf-82 set up I had the rc-62 a
few db hotter than the rf-82 because they had the ability to drown the rc-62
out a little. In my experience with the 2 set ups the rules kind of changed a
little. What’s wrong with your sub?
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Jason how do the rf-7ii fit and sound vs the rf-63? Are you
as happy as me with the sound? (I think they sound just like the rc-64ii just a
little bigger and better)
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Wow, $500.00 for a sub calibration...I can see where buying a $1500.00 Velodyne has some perks!
I would buy a new screen. If you want to save a little cash on it, try this: http://www.jamestownhometheaterscreen.com/120_screen.html Solid quality and great picture! The construction of the frame and stretching the material took some time, but I am very happy with the end results!
I hear what you’re saying about the price. Depending on what
you have invested it isn’t always a good value. I have over 3k invested into
subs alone so paying 450 to 500 extra to tie it all together with everything
(mains to) makes sense.
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Really easy to use on the back of the eq it has a bunch of
outputs, and inputs. How it works you run your lfe output from your avr to the
eq then the eq has 3 sub outputs that you run to your subs. all the outputs are
the same so you can Y as many subs as you want. Then you run 3 rcas from the eq
to the avr (left/right audio and 1 video). Here is a great link on how to use
it. Works with all subs and yes you can still use audyssey.
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Pic of sms-1 on screen. The graph refreshes nonstop over and
over so example: if I slowly turn the phase knob on a sub even a little that
graph will change as it refreshes the tone sweeps. Any tiny change can make a
huge difference.
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Probably a screen I would think would be the biggest upgrade.
But I don’t know much about projector stuff. I’m not a big fan of expensive
power conditioners other than how cool some of them look. You could probably
just spend $100 bucks or less and should feel pretty safe. I’m a huge sub
junkie so investing in more/better bass to me is always worth it if you have
the room. One option you haven’t listed would be a sub eq to tie in everything.
If you’re running your 7s large or pretty low you will want an onscreen graph
of how all the speakers are working in the room together. The dips and bass
nulls can be huge. Also keeping all those big drivers in phase with each other is
hard by ear, they can cancel each other out and you might not even know it. I had huge bass nulls I didn’t know I had and
on all 3 of my subs i needed to adjust the phase to get a flat response.
]
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Alternate to Rc-7?
in Home Theater
Posted
The tapered array crossover is specifically for the problems
that are created when you turn a speaker on its side. It has nothing to do with
it being a center channel speaker. It’s used to fix an issue not give it an
advantage over a 2 way design like the rf-7ii. A little research on the topic
and you would know this.