Heritage_Head

Grats on a great looking set up!

If I made it sound like I was comparing reference to Heritage in that post I’m sorry (cause I know I have in other posts). When I said you can go in other directions to get amazing sound today I wasn’t referring to any one speaker line or brand. I meant you don’t need that older style design today to get that sound. You could go with Palladium for example. (Not the 20k ones). Heritage price point has a ton of competition from a lot of speakers out there and I was using that as a rebuttal to why Heritage is fading. I know it sounds like I have grudge against Heritage and I apologize to everyone that owns Heritage if you took it that way. If it wasn’t for Heritage I wouldn’t have the speakers I have today. I’m just giving my opinion on why they have faded from popularity.

I don't know about Reference, but my Klipschorns provide quiet, beautiful, and articulate dinner music. They are located on the other side of the kitchen from the dining room (with large wall openings, so the music can flow through). They seem to sound better than other speakers I've tried when all are heard from a room other than the one the listeners are sitting in. Heyser said the same thing in his review of Klipschorns in Audio. I usually play quiet classical or jazz at dinner. The sound is so clear that when the conversation of guests at the table sinks into annoying invalidity, hostility, or occasionally warranted misanthropy, my attention can easily flow into the music. It's better than Buspar. Klipsch Horns are far superb to Reference speakers in both filling large spaces and playing classical or jazz music...I would imagine. I think khorns look awesome and are by far my favorite Heritage speakers. When I used to go to audio king in the 90s I would sit in there and listen to the khorns all the time. Them and the old polk speakers rti12 (not the new style but the big ones with (4) domes, (8) 6 ½ s and a 15” radiator) also great speakers. Biggest problem with khorns is they cost 8k new and are one of the biggest placement slaves( They have to be set up right) speakers I have seen. They also have almost doubled in cost if I remember right. I would probably go Palladium P-37Fs for that kind of money before khorns. (Same cost and also have a voice matched center) as far as the khorns vs reference imo if you gave me my choice for ht I wouldn’t trade the rf-7ii for khorns(cause then I would lose the rc-64ii voice match and my 2 subs up front wouldn’t fit) . But for 2 channel only khorns are the better speaker. (But they cost 5k more and are twice as big)

Put them by the support beam flush on the wall.

Great post corn I read that review as well and the reviewer seemed blown away by the speakers. Some of your points are spot on to what I was trying to say in a lot of my posts. Technology changes so much that 30 years ago to get amazing sound they built speakers like Heritage. And even though Heritage speakers still sound just as amazing as they did 35 years ago. Today we can go other directions and not lose much of anything. I think the 4 keys when buying speakers is sound, price, looks, and size. In that order for me but I’m sure everyone’s order is a little different. If I was buying speakers in the 70s I bet I would have owned speakers like Heritage or the closest thing I could get to it (price permitted).

I am getting one VERY soon. Personally I have owned all 3 (rc-52, rc-62 and the rc-64ii) the latter of each are all huge upgrades. The 52 to me couldn’t keep up very well. The 62 keeps up pretty good and is a great speaker but the 64 is a different level of sound compared to all the reference centers I have owned. (I also had the RVX-42)

Great to hear you’re happy with the 7s. I kind of do on and off with the grills they look way better off I think but I’m always scared something might happen. By the way where did you get that avatar? lol

They sound very close. The rf-7ii is huge compared to the rc-64ii (probably 3x as big at least) and does have overall better sound. The sound is so much alike that they do sound seamless to my ears though. The rf-83 is a better speaker than the rc-64 as well so I’m sure it has a better sound also. I would pull the rc-64 out from the bottom of the entertainment cabinet and set it up ear level just to try it that way and see if it improves the sound. If it does you know its placement.

I really think the cd vs lp is a different debate. It’s my fault I brought it up. Statistic facts are cds have much more detail capabilities than lps. I’m not sure how anyone would even try and argue different but it’s not the first time I have read that in a forum. (Misinformation)

No, I don't believe all the old stuff is better than all the new stuff. Most new stuff is better. My 2010 Technics turntable sounds a lot better than my 1978 Technics turntable, even though I'm using the mat, headshell and cartridge from the 1978. As well, that 2005 cartridge sounds better than the 1970s cartridge I used to listen to. Better how? More detail and clarity, more bass impact, more realistic sound overall. I was surprised at just how much difference the new turntable made, considering the parts from the old one that were on it. Its new bearing and new electronics, along with its better-quality tonearm wiring and better vibration isolation, added up to improvements that were obvious to the ears. I've never heard an SACD, so I can't comment on how good they may sound. I do listen to well-recorded DVDs and they sound better than a good LP. However, some LPs sound better than some CDs, in a "hearing through to the music" sort of way. Some LPs are not very good, whether through poor quality control or poor recording techniques, just like some CDs. Have you heard of the "loudness wars"? CDs have a very low noise floor, which is what impressed everyone when they first came out, since most of our records were pretty scratchy then, from playing on our old cheap turntables. However, listening to CDs now reveals that the low noise floor comes at the expense of some of the low-level detail, which is sorted of chopped off. It can give a kind of "canned" feeling to the music. Not only that, the pits on a CD that are read by the laser are five times as large as the smallest ridges on an LP, so that's one of the reasons that vinyl records can retrieve more detail. The drawback is that those details won't be retrieved by a cheap turntable and cartridge, plus the cheap gear will cause wear and surface noise to show up pretty quickly. The discs themselves are also easily damaged, so the CDs are the safer choice at a party. As for preferred listening, you're right, it's often preferable to stay home and listen to recorded music instead of going out for a noisy and expensive evening of live music, but for Paul Klipsch and for many others, the sound of live music is the reference, the sound that home systems should be designed and built to reproduce. Even if you're listening to a studio recording, the ideal system is the one that puts you in the mixing room, the control room, or wherever closest to the actual music is. For me, the Heritage speakers do that better than other speakers. "CDs have a very low noise floor, which is what impressed everyone when they first came out, since most of our records were pretty scratchy then, from playing on our old cheap turntables. However, listening to CDs now reveals that the low noise floor comes at the expense of some of the low-level detail, which is sorted of chopped off. It can give a kind of "canned" feeling to the music. Not only that, the pits on a CD that are read by the laser are five times as large as the smallest ridges on an LP, so that's one of the reasons that vinyl records can retrieve more detail" [:S] I smell alcohol

A $100 cd player is very close to a $5,000 one in sound quality. The main reason is the technology is so good that most people (99%) won’t hear the upgrade (I can’t and I have pretty good audio ears). When I hear someone say that an LP sounds more like real music i kind of know I’m probably beating a dead horse at this point. Nothing wrong with likening one over the other for personal taste but one is far superior to the other.

1: Apparently, you've never heard a good LP played on a really good turntable through a good system. It's true that cheap CD players are way better than cheap turntables and cartridges, but once you get into the better equipment, the LPs definitely sound more like real music. 2: Buggy whips went out of use when horse-drawn buggies went out of use. On the other hand, people still listen to music, so they still need speakers to listen to it, because earphones are only useful some of the time. I have heard many high end lp players. My dad is who got me into all this when I was a kid. His brother was an electronic engineer who had a job in this (not sure of job title but he had as much stuff as a local small hi fi store. He had the speakerlab k horns in his main set up (very close to klipschs khorn) (I have two pair of speakerlabs I got from him in storage great speakers). They both had very hi end turntables and horn speakers. They got so into it they had different cartridges for certain types of music. (Very expensive) It sounded amazing and is probably what got me hooked so many years ago. They both have cd players now and there records and players are in boxes. I almost did put that the buggie whip companies are gone now and music isn’t but I thought everyone would get that part. I just meant that like speakerlab who is pretty much just a retail store now because those types of speakers don’t keep the lights on. But klipsch is still going strong and is able to still offer those types of speakers. Imo if it wasn’t for the new age klipsch line speakers they (Heritage) wouldn’t be available. Let’s put it another way that maybe we can all agree on, if all klipsch was able to offer was Heritage speakers would they go out of business? My guess is absolutely. And I think that hits my main point more than anything.

Faded?? I guess I never got that that memo. Really good things are always hard to find, even when they're right under your nose. Lot's of broad generalizations going on in this thread. Interesting. They used to be in every klipsch dealer (store), now you have to get on plane to even see them for most people. I would say that’s fading. Most of my favorite music is from the 70s, and I only wish it had sound quality as good as a lot of today’s music. They have been using compressors for music forever. They had to or they would never fit it on a tiny record. Not to get into record vs cd debate (is there really one) but cds destroy a record in size, information, and sound quality to 99% of the world. I see Heritage speakers very similar as records in that people hang on to what they love and there’s nothing wrong with that. I just think like with power steering in cars or cds for music people just moved on. If you have ever seen the movie other people’s money he talks about the company’s that used to sell buggies whips (for the horses). And he said “I bet the company that made the best buggies whips out lasted every other company”

That’s a very good point Jason. Before the technology boom of 80s, 90s, and 2000s there was definitely a different way to do things. A good example is the micro-processor in a typical avr (receiver) has more power in it than it took to get a man on the moon (fact). I know speakers haven’t come as far as computers but when a cell phone has a computer in it now the size of one that would fill a warehouse in the 60s it tells us that things are built different for more than just cutting corners. They built lots of cheap stuff back then too it’s just the only stuff people still talk about is what was good. Also the average cost of a pair of Heritage speakers new (including the Heresy) is about 5k. A lot of really great speakers in that price range.

Tony you have an amazing set up and no doubt put a ton of time and work into it. And for your behind the screen set up it’s a perfect match. I wouldn’t be able to pull off the center speaker but if I had your set up I’m sure I would be 100% satisfied. My comment about sentimental attachment isn’t meant to mean in every case. I also agree on the used market they are some of the great value speakers of all time. Your front row new would run (3) $9,000 would you have paid that? And if you didn’t would it be because you don’t care about sound as much as someone who paid 2k for them 20 years ago?

Guys I’m honestly a little surprised that so many longtime members on here have posted that people don’t care as much about sound as a big part of the reason that klipsch Heritage has faded. If I have learned anything on these forums (avs ,blu ray.com, ect) is that people care a lot. Why else would they even waste their time on here? In the 60s and 70s if you wanted hi end sound you had to buy those kinds of speakers. Biggest difference now is you don’t.

No doubt they sound amazing. They just don’t offer a value for their cost that is equal or greater than the competition. If they did they would sell them in stores and not just to people that have a sentimental attachment for the old klipsch speakers (they would also sell for more than 1/8th the cost on used market). Music is the same way, we all like the music we like but to say that it’s better because it’s your favorite would be misplaced. Yes tvs and speakers are apples and oranges but the idea is that people aren’t satisfied with their movie playing cell phones and iPods! They want a big screen hd tv on the wall that looks amazing. Just because the way we listen to music has changed doesn’t mean people don’t like music as much. Yes 20 years ago we bought an album and played it over and over because it was all we had. So we became attached to the band, music, and the speakers we played it on. Now we can download a thousand different songs online in 5min and not even know what band is playing. Look at car audio now vs the 70s it’s night and day not even close in sound quilty like hd vs non hd in comparison. My point is people DO care just as much about sound as ever. Below is a link to blu ray.com community. Look at these set ups!! And tell them that they don’t care as much about sound as you. What I’m hearing is a basic “kids these days don’t know anything” (about sound) which is absolutely 100% bs! http://www.blu-ray.com/community/

Speaker design 101 is still used today as it was 50 years ago but there are many things like materials and technology advancements that have changed the rules. I think it’s just too easy to say that people don’t care about sound like they used to. I couldn’t disagree more. People are just are able to find it in other ways. You don’t need to buy Heritage looking speakers to have amazing sound. When the only speakers on the market had the wide style design of course that’s what people are going to buy. Look at tvs this is a great example of progress in technology. Would any anybody on here say that people don’t care about picture quality like they used to? That’s just silly people want quality that’s why they got rid of their old square tvs and got hd flat panels. I know that tv advancement is bigger than speakers but it’s just a great example that people do care. The average home today will probably have a better cd stereo somewhere in the home than the one box record player that was in most homes in the 70s. Look at cars they used to get 10mpg now they make cars that get 50mpg. Do people not care as much as they used to? No disrespect but that just seems like a copout.

I posted this on the klipsch avs forum in response to a little debate that arose about why Heritage line has faded from stores and talks on forums. I spent so long typing it out I thought I would post it here as well. This is a pretty big debate that I have seen pop up so many times. Here is my 2 cents on why the Heritage line has faded. Owners of Heritage speaker will usually say that they wouldn’t trade or sell them for anything (strange they always seem like they are available used for a fraction of their cost but so are reference speakers), and the other side is normally saying that they are too big (if that’s even possible) or ugly. Comparing them to mid-level reference line stuff (like rf-62ii or even rf-82ii) is apples to oranges. First Heritage speakers are way more expensive. Yes the Heresy III are only 1600(which is still 500 more than the rf-82ii, and almost twice the cost of the rf-62ii) but the Heresy III is more of a mini Heritage speaker (almost the large bookshelf of the line). The cheapest full size Heritage speaker costs $3,750 a pair the Cornwall III (next is $6,000 for La Scala II, and then$8,000 for the mighty khorns). So unless someone wants to buy used, which a lot of people won’t (1. People want their money spent on new gear not someone else’s old stuff regardless of the value. 2. Most don’t know enough about this stuff to know what to buy, and the list goes on and on). Really the only reference line speaker they make or made that even compares to the Heritage line would be the rf-7, rf-83, or the rf-7ii. And even those are cheaper than any full size Heritage. I also think the fact that they don’t put them in stores to much anymore kind of tells the story a little bit. If these speakers could sell in stores they would be in most klipsch stores (Like they used to be). We can try to speculate why they wouldn’t sell (too big? Look like they are from that 70s show? Or maybe they don’t look and sound as good as the speakers next to them that cost $6,000 or less?). It’s the HT age of home audio (2 channel is almost like vinyl).Now this isn’t saying one speaker sounds better than another cause that’s taste but If a store put the La Scala II ($6,000) next to rf-7ii ($3,200) and I mean this in the nicest way especially to the La Scala owners. But if people had to pick one of the two imo i think 10/10 people would buy the rf-7ii and save $2,800(And to be honest even if the La Scala II cost the same 3200 imo the 7s would still out sell them). Then you put other speakers like rf-82ii or rf-62ii for 1k or less in the mix and I don’t think the Heritage speakers even gets a 2nd look for those prices. Heritage speakers are amazing speakers, i remember when they were in every store that sold klipsch (I’m 37) so whenever I heard the name klipsch I always thought of Heritage. I just think they went out of style more than anything. It’s hard to compete with new age looking stuff that costs half as much and still blows you away. I also think that klipsch keeps the lineup partially in respect to paul klipsch. Just my opinion on why they have fallen off the map here in the US. *** note all prices are retail, and all other info is my opinion only***

I would disagree and say the easiest sub to place if anything would be a down firing sub because you can place it anywhere in any direction.

I really didn't understand this statement, especially the "this always cabinet placement" part. If you're saying that sealed subs are more versitile as far as placement goes as opposed to other configurations then I would disagree. Ideal placement is more a product of the room and the subs interaction with the room than the type of sub used. Subs can't be put just anywhere. Well, I guess they can be, but they can't be placed just anywhere and then be considered to be in the "ideal" spot. The ideal asthetic placement spot is rarely, if ever, the ideal spot for optimal sub performance in regards to room interaction. You can take a cheap sub and place it in the correct spot in a room and can outperform (at the listening position) a sub costing many times more if it's placed in the wrong spot. Agreed front, side, rear, and down firing subs all have the same versatility. In fact the main reason they make subs front loaded is for cosmetic reasons. svs for example changed from down firing to front and said the reason they changed was people wanted to be able to see the driver, and other than that there was no advantage. Placement is the key. As mentioned bad subs in the right spot can outperform good subs in bad spots. Sealed and ported do have advantages over each other but that becomes more output and taste then placement. Most audiophiles will tell you ported are easier to place but its pretty close.

The 82s are nice but as mentioned above the rf-7 are amazing. Imo they are the ultimate HT speaker. But if you are buying used condition of them is important. Also you can get rf-82ii for a lot less then retail. You can find them for 700-800 if you wait for a sale. Comes down to what you want. Will you be happy with good or do you have to have amazing. [] Also as mentioned the rc-62ii is a perfect match to the rf-82ii.

The 82s are nice but as mentioned above the rf-7 are amazing. Imo they are the ultimate HT speaker. But if you are buying used condition of them is important. Also you can get rf-82ii for a lot less then retail. You can find them for 700-800 if you wait for a sale. Comes down to what you want. Will you be happy with good or do you have to have amazing. [] Also as mentioned the rc-62ii is a perfect match to the rf-82ii.

Very nice you will love the empires great subs

When I bought my last sub (empire) that ED sub was one of many I looked at. I read hundreds of posts. And the port chuffing issues was the main reason I crossed the sub off my list. I was replacing a sub that had the same problem. I talked to Alex on the blu ray forums a little about it. I’m not saying it’s a bad sub I just hate port chuffing. The only ported subs I have heard that don’t have port chuffing is SVS. (Inside the box it’s like pipe organs that curve up in back pretty awesome looking inside)The one I have you can just about pop the driver out of the box and the port don’t make even a peep of noise even if you over drive it. So it can be done if the design is right inside the box. But I realize the price difference is about $650 so it is a little apples to oranges.