Bleeding

That's really strange. With my RX-V3900 and my RF-82s clarity is fantastic. It's just lacking clarity and power on bass frequencies and only when listening to stereo music. And I consider myself to be very sensitive when it comes to clarity in sound.

Thanks Stephen for your explainations. I know about the loudness war as I suffered too from that problem over the last couple of years. It could be one of the reasons but I'm not entirely sure it's the only explanation of why I'm lacking bass in stereo mode. That's because mostly pretty recent recordings, for example Dave Matthew's "Big Whisky and the Gru Grux King", do actually have at least an acceptable amount of bass when playing while older recordings, from the 80's for example, are all bad regarding bass. And on those recordings, the loudness wars were rather in the beginning and music was not "stored" as loud on the CD as today. Also, listening to music over FM radio on my Yamaha, the bass is also stronger than from CD - althought radio stations normally do raise the loudness even more. Of course FM sound is overall bad, but at least I can hear some bass there. Of course it's no dynamic sound and a kick drum can still be barely heard out of all the other sound. I also have some SACDs which are known not to suffer that much from the loudness wars, and yes, sound is better and bass is a bit stronger, but still far from what I would expect. I also tried listening at a - for me - very loud -10 db level on my AVR, and bass really doesn't fill in ... mainly the heights get even more overwhelming while bass still can't be heared out of the sound clearely.

Yes that exactly is the same problem like mine. Have you ever tried another AVR with your speakers? @Braveheart, have I understood you right that your issue is not only limited to bass and deep bass frequencies but also mids and heights sound muffled? @Stephen sorry no I didn't had a chance yet to turn up my volume very loud as I come home late after work and won't have my neighbours go through their roof ... hopefully I find a chance this weekend to try this. But if this is the reason, why does it sound so well when watching movies, even on much lower volumes than on what I normally listen to music?

BraveHeart, after you posted to my RF-82 thread, I also read through yours now as we have the same setup and I'm also disappointed, at least when listening to stereo music. What confuses me in your case is that you are saying you have a very muddled sound in general and not only for the bass frequencies, is that right? Because in my case, heights and mids are really fantastic, very clear, what comes out of the tweeter/horn is a very detailed and clear sound that amazes me, althought it's even a bit overpowered, but that's something you would expect from Klipsch speakers. My problem is only in the bass and deep bass area. The bass is muddy and not "sharp"/kicking when listening to stereo music (but very powerful when listening to movies, on the other hand). If you really have issues also in heights and mids, there must be something wrong in your setup. Maybe your 3900 has a malfunction. If you're also only have issues with muddy bass frequencies, then we might very well have the same problem. But I can confirm that high and mid frequencies work fantastic with 82's and RX-V3900, I really have no problem here.

Hi Mustang, just wanted to reply to you too so you don't think I ignore your posts ... the Yamaha is also my main assumption as the culprit, but as it souds great in Movie mode, i KNOW this system can deliver but why not in stereo ... Anyhow, I really want to try a Denon with my system as I always was very satisfied with Denon AVRs, I also like Onkyos as they have a great value for the money but I think they're ugly ... but it's hard to just "test" a Denon as I don't know a dealer who would give me one for a weekend to test and just ordering one is a bit risky as replacing a (at time of purchase) 2.500 $ receiver with another $ 2.500 receiver with no proof that anything will really get better is not in my budget. But yes, I will try to find a way to test my system with another AVR.

Thanks for all your comments. Sorry if I do not respond to everyone directly because of the sheer amount of replys and the work that has to be done to quote you all ... but I read every post and every one is helpful! As I said, in movie mode everything's fine ... I watched "R.E.D." with Bruce Willis a couple of days ago and the effects really made my room bounce and also the soundtrack was just delivered perfect with the right amount of clear shaped and strong basses. I even walked to the speakers to hear if the main amount of bass was coming out of them during pure musical scenes - and yes, the sub was silent, all bass came out of the mains. So, the set can handle my room and one sub is enough for it as i really have to tame the sub down as I want my wall paint on my walls a little longer It's just when playing stereo ... or even a Music DVD that might also have 5.1 mix in DTS or Dolby. Seems music is generally mixed a little bit more neutral as when used on movie soundtracks, and the Yamaha just does not make out enough of it. Maybe. I really don't know if it can be blamed on the Yammi, but as others said, it seems very well to be an option. In stereo, the sub does not really play anything as the RF 82's do all the work. But I also had the sub turned off for a while and it doesn't really changed the sound. So this doesn't seem to be the issue in my setup (as also in movie mode, everything's just fine). I thought about that a lot. But I'm unsure. On one hand, the Yamaha is a very powerful amp and should have more than enough power for my RF-82's, even more because I don't tend to listen to music really loud anyhow. And in movie mode, the set is like an earthquake, even on music-only parts where the sub not really turns in. As I said at the beginning of this post, I just had a blast when watching "R.E.D." ... it was fantastic. I don't understand why only in stereo the set seems not to deliver the power it has. Anyhow ... what stereo amp would you recommend? I also wonder if this won't overpower my 82's in move mode as only the left and right channels get extra amplification while other speakers, like the center, does not. Also, how does this work with volume control as the stereo amp surely will have its own volume settings? I have not really any knowledge of such a setup so I'm not really shure how to move on ... BraveHeart, I hope the 82s improve your listening experience. Intrestingly, you also have a bad experience when watching movies where everything's fine on my side here. I also didn't hear much difference in Pure Direct mode when listening to stereo. While not muddy, bass was even a bit less strong than without Pure Direct. When watching movies, is everything muddy or just the soundtrack? Are effects (explosions) kicking or also rather flat and muddy? I'm with you about all your comments about the RX-V3900 ... yes it really shoud have enough power to drive those speakers. Please let me know if the RF 82s change anything for you. Would be really intresting.

I don't have an SPL meter so it's hard to say how loud I really listen ... I live in an apartment so I don't listen at really loud volumes most of the time, the volume setting on my Yamaha is somewhere between -45 and -30 db most of the time, only seldom louder going up to - 25 db but of course you would need the same setup like me to know how loud this would actually be. But in general I don't have the feeling that bass fills in when going louder, rather in contrary that heights get even more dominant. But I will try to pull up the volume louder for testing and let you know. Yes I also have to respect the WAF and also my neighbours so I'm also not listening at very loud volumes most of the time. But IMHO speakers like the 82's should deliver also on lower volumes ... Whats intresting for me is that increasing bass also mudden things up for you too as you are using a Pioneer receiver ... I blamed this on bad processing of my Yamaha. Also intresting is that you need to adjust the bass for MW3 as in movies and games the sound (and bass) is just right for me ... but this may be because you don't have a subwoofer according to your profile and also music in movies and games benefits from a larger support from the subwoofer. That's a bit frustrating ... the RF 82's really should be able to play a strong bass even on lower volumes and also without help from a subwoofer. There must be anything that can be done about that ...

James, yes the phase is correct. I also tried to intentionally switch the phase on one speaker to be sure and the Yamaha immediately told me that there's an phase error so the AVR would have let me know if I did it wrong in first place. The good comments about the speaker's bass are the main reason why I can't believe I can't get more out of those speakers - and of course the fact that while watching a movie, music output is just excellent. Thanks Heli - it's just that also in German, we have specific words to describe characteristics of speakers and sound that can't be obvious for non-native speakers and of course I'm not very familiar with the US "hifi slang" so I was not sure if the words I use deliver the right meaning for you I really tried every possible setting over the last 1 1/2 years and got nowhere ... the only thing I havent tried is manually configuring the Parametric EQ of the AVR but this is just too advanced for me. I tried the different EQ presets the AVR offers based on Audyssey results but also there is little difference that doesn't change the main problem. In stereo, i normally use the "Large" setting for the RF-82s, so the subwoofer isn't on anyhow, but in movie mode, the one subwoofer does it's job very well - the system kicks *** when watching movies. But yes, maybe it's something I overlooked or some key part I'm missing ... maybe someone can put me in the right direction based on my problem descriptions ... I always operated them in "large" mode but I also tried to put them to "small" and set the crossover to 60 or 80 Hz ... just in case it might get better when the Sub does some of the deep bass job ... but it really made no (or not much) difference. Have them set to large again after testing this. Thanks for all your comments!

Hi, I'd read a lot through the postings here and found the community here to be very helpful and competent, so I'm very hopeful that I found some help here on my problem with my Klipsch RF home cinema set (RF 82, RC 62, RS 42, RW-12d). I'm no native English speaker so please excuse if I might not find the correct words do describe how my setup sounds, I hope you know what I mean anyhow So, I have this speaker set in my living room that's absolutely not ideal environment as it's large, combined with a kitchen, rather reflecting walls and floor, a circle-like wall on the backside... so yes, it's a compromise to have a home cinema in this room but I have no other options. I don't expect to have perfect sound there but I have this set for 1 1/2 years now, powered by a pretty potent Yamaha RX-V3900, and I was never able to get enough bass out of the RF 82's when listening to music in stereo. I listen to all kind of (hard) rock & pop music, a little bit of metal - but I don't like electronic music or drum & bass or anything so I'm really not the guy that want as much bass as possible - I just want a straight, strong, kickin' bass that compliments the sound well. But what I get is a really thin sound. I love it when I can distinct the different parts of a drumset while hearing clearly, to hear out the volume of the drums, but it's not there. Sometimes the bass really "sinks" whithin the heights and mids so I really have a hard time really hearing out the bass guitar. Also, the bass, when it's there, sounds mostly airless/muffled, not clear contoured. It's not much fun to listening to music this way. The set plays great when watching to movies though ... not just the explosion effects, also music/soundtrack in films come really strong and straight out of the set as I would like it also when listening to stereo. So the power and the quality is there ... I just doesn't seem to deliver in stereo. Of course it also depends on source material ... when listening to Dave Matthews' "Big Whisky and the Gru Grux King", sound & bass is pretty good althought not as good and strong as I'd expect. But on most other material, I never come close to this. The Yamaha has the ability to increase bass over it's menu but the result is underwhelming ... while the bass gets (a little bit) more intense, it also gets more "muffled"/less clear. When I walk around in the room to see if room accoustics are better on other positions - yes, it gets more intense on some places, but also not nearly as much as I want and its also a little bit like increasing the bass on the Yamaha ... it sounds less clear than in my regular sitting position. I can't belive that is all that can come out of this large RF 82's ... heck, I know it can be better as when watching movies everything's fine. I tried to set the front speakers to "small" instead of "large" and experimented with crossovers but it made little difference in the overall listening experience regarding to bass. I'm sure the speakers are connected correctly. I would be very thankful for any ideas what could be wrong or what I can do to improve the bass. I thought about replacing my Yamaha by a Denon as I always was a Denon fan ... but my Dealer told me that Klipschs are better paired with Yamaha ... but maybe the "natural" sound of the Yamaha is just too natural for my taste. On the other hand, I don't believe replacing the Yammi by a Denon can make this much difference in bass power to resolve all my issues. So, as you can see, I'm really unhappy as I invested so much money in this system but can't get the results I had with a much cheaper satellite system, at least regarding bass - of course I'm very satisfied with the clear and detailled heights and mids of the speakers. Again, any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks