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Posts posted by kodomo

  1. I can get B&C 12nw100, what do you guys think about it? I think I should get 4ohm version and wire in series to get 8ohms. However it is only 92db efficient around 120hz. Two of them will get me 95db and the horn is supposed to add another 6db, which would be 101db. This wont be happening lower than 120hz though...


    How much volume I need in the chamber for these woofers and as these were mainly designed for bass reflex, do you think it would be a problem?





  2. I plan on starting a second system project with these. What are the qualities I need to look for the 12" woofers for this horn? My only concern is the sound quality and I want to get about 103db+/1w/1m efficiency. I will build these sealed and drive from 70hz to 600hz where I will cross them to a Yuichi 290hz horn with 2" cd (probably radian 850pb-be as I love it) up to around 5khz and then a fostex or a visaton bullet horn tweeter. I plan to build two matching 20hz-80hz subs to go with them. This is the initial plan. So any recommendations :)



  3. I have experienced a round horn and I really liked what I heard. I have the original klipschorn squawker, the volti v-trac and a rectangular cf190hz tractrix horn I have built. The cf200 round tractrix horn sounded less coloured. I could also hear instruments seperation better as if they had air around them. The sound didn't strain. I thought it didn't sound strained before but after hearing the round one I was surprised. 


    I think having multi-channels and having the jmlc between 1800 to 10800, will help the system not being beamy. I also am not planning to push any driver or any horn in the system to its limits.


    My ceilings are 3meters tall. There will be acoustic absorbers on the ceiling in the first reflection zone and carpet on the floor.

  4. I have completely changed what I am doing and decided to make a big project. I will continue working on it till it sounds right :)


    hORNS.pl is making my horns. I bought the drivers from various dealers. I have minidsp to work on crossover adjustments and then I will build a passive one for 160hz upwards.


    This is the system:


    20hz - 38hz - Eminence Tapped horn I built with hypex plate amp

    38hz - 160hz - Sealed bass arrays with Scanspeak 30W4558t00 driven by 1200watt x 2 amps

    160hz - 600hz - 110cf round tractrix with Supravox 285-2000 alnico 

    600hz - 1800hz - 200cf round tractrix with Radian 850pb

    1800hz - 10800hz - 1000cf JMLC with Radian 475 beryllium

    10800hz - 45000hz - Fostex t500amkII


    • Like 1

  5. Why do you need to find the acoustic centre? If for alignment purposes, what I say is incredibly precise method to do it.


    Your mics are ok, and with REW you can do it. Juts get a multi channel soundcard from someone.


    I dont know about clio, maybe it is already capable of doing it, you should ask people who use that.

    • Like 1

  6. As I have a music studio, its easy for me. I have a few multichannel sound cards and microphones. You don't need a measurement mic for this, but you need at least a two channel sound card.


    You need to setup a loopback for reference purposes so that the program doesn't take your impulses automatically to t=0 That is a second channel feeding itself for reference.


    Then, in rew, just use the loop back as the time reference 

    • Like 1

  7. Please consider having the tweeter time aligned Arash. I have been experimenting with this extensively and we have chosen the tweeter vertically, horizontally aligned over all other placements. With impulse response, you can fine tune the placement.


    I suggest using a delay for aligning with the bass too, as with Klipsch we cross around 300-350hz minimum and is quite high and the effects are audible. I really cant understand why people do not care about time alignment. I think it is because people did not have the chance to hear aligned or at least more aligned horn systems. When you spend time with that sound, and then turn back it is very easy to hear the difference.


    Also jamboree is very high and the midrange and tweeter will be even higher. This creates a soundstage like a stage you hear from the pit at a concert :) 

    • Like 1

  8. I cross around 6.5khz, it beams but not more than volti v-trac.


    The BMS 4592nd-mid 16ohm driver has a bump around 4khz and that is heard. The horn itself resonates a little as it is not braced to a chassis like the volti horn or Klipsch horns. This causes some sounds to be located coming from the speaker (less than stock klipschorn). They cant detach as good as a well braced one like v-trac. I think as it resonates it also creates a timbre which colours the sound. These are the areas I have to work on.


    However, the sound is more relaxed (sounds like more headroom) and has more dynamics. The integration with the bass is better. My crossovers that Greg built have 6db rolloff around 360-380hz. He has put 3 choices for the bass inductor. Low, mid and high. With the v-trac, the meaurements looked better when I used to choose the high setting but then it muddied the presentation, and it did not sound good. When I used mid setting, I was compromising some spl for clarity. There used to be a dip around 380hz. When choosing low, it lacked certain weight and had a bigger wider dip. Now with this horn, I can choose the low setting but it still measures very flat and sounds very clear. I can hear the tone of the bassdrums and the body of the bass guitars better. 


    If the height wouldn't be an issue, I would build another tractrix with 1" mouth and 1khz cf, and cross it around 2khz. Then cross to my tweeters around 8khz. To do that, I have to change the bassbin too, otherwise the midrange and tweeters would be too high. One can use Inlows 80hz midbass with these tractrix I have built and 1khz tractrix on top of that plus tweeters. I have built tapped horns that can work below that, though 80hz would be too high for them to cross and sound as good as the klipschorn bassbin. I may put the v-tracs back on top one day, then build a 5 way system with what I have built :)

  9. And here they are on top of my horns. I am very happy with the integration to the bassbins (soundwise) It sound even more effortless then my fc253hz tractrix's built by Greg.


    I put some tops on the bassbins and put these on that. I am planning to make a rigid rectangular piece and attach it to the lips. That bracing will help with the sound and make it even better according to what I hear. So not many problems, I am overall happy with this project!

    Here are some shots



    • Like 2

  10. I filled all the gaps and sanded the hell out of them. I left them at a painting atelier and am going to pick them up on Friday. I can not paint at my place :(



    She likes it . . . Your cat, I mean.

    They look great. I'm eager to learn your impressions.


    I have two cats in the house, and they were both very interested in the horn. I had to keep it away from them, as they wanted to crawl inside of it to sleep!

  11. I couldn't wait any longer, I had to try and build the cf190hz horn, so I did! I built the horns, now I will need to make throat adapters and think about finishing them. I used marine plywood for top and bottoms and 8mm bendable plywood for the sides. They still fit on top my klipschorn bassbins but without the tophats, as they are bigger than the tophats themselves. I have the BMS 4592nd-mid 16ohm and I have been crossing it around 380hz. My midrange horn was made by Greg (beautifully) and it is cf 260hz. When crossed at 380hz, there is a slight problem with group delays. I want to get rid of the phase shift that is happening because I was crossing close to cf. Now I will have about an octave and hopefully it will be over.


    The crossover I have lets the midrange rolloff by itself. The BMS rolls off around 6khz. How do you think it will interact with this horn? Is larger horn bad for higher frequencies, will I have more beaming?









    • Like 2

  12. Thanks people for all the help!


    I am waiting for Mr. Delgado to answer my email.  I would be very happy getting the originals here if he can help me with that too. I contacted Bjorn as well and learned how he got his. So I will try that way as well.


    For people asking, I am located at Antalya, Turkey.

    • Like 2

  13. How are they modified?  Buy a pair from Klipsch and check them out yourself.  Roy Delgado (roy.delgado@klipsch.com) will take your order.  They're available for ordering.


    As I have stated before, these are not being sold in my country and the dealer I talked to didn't even know about them! 


    I can not import them from US either, because of their cost and size. We have certain limits at customs regarding size/weight and cost for people to import stuff. If the products price/weight are beyond them you can not import. You can not say, I am ok with the taxes, i will pay, get me my stuff. It will be considered a commercial transaction and you would need a company with proper permissions to do that. That is why I contacted the Klipsch distributor here but got that answer. So I can not buy a pair and see for myself dear Chris.


    I know they are big horns, but they are not that big for me to be afraid of building. I love doing stuff myself. An 8 feet high tapped horn may be considered big, but I still built it out of mdf and enjoy it immensely. It weighs over 220pound but is incredibly rigid and sounds/feels wonderful.


    This is no commercial approach either so I do not think I am harming anyone.


    I'd recommend doing a bit more research on this design before saying "it's conical", or "it's a round-over mouth"--pat statements that are incorrect.  I've done my due diligence and I can say without a doubt that these are modified tractrix horns.


    Yes that is what I think as well about the profile. That is why I was asking for help. Maybe I should write to Roy Delgado and ask for him directly for help. 

    • Like 1

  14. I can not do a mold or a clay model as I have no access to originals. Klipsch dealers here have no idea about a k402 horn. I don't think pro line has reached these shores. They don't even know much about heritage line... 


    My v-tracs are in wood. My Khorn bassbins are in wood, my tapped horn is in wood. My old squawker was in fiberglass. Although it has to more to do with the profile of that horn, it is my least favourite and most coloured horn of all.


    I am sad to hear there are no plans. I could't find anyone who made a clone over forums as well. I hope someone comes up with a plan. It is does not look like a complicated build once you have the dimensions. It looks like a bigger Bruce Edgar tractrix until the last few inches where it has a second flares outwards... Hard to guess from photos...

    • Like 1

  15. Hello fellow members. I am looking forward to build a horn in wood with K-402's profile. A clone in wood. Are there any plans or does anyone know of its modified tractrix profile. It is not possible for me to see or hear one in person where I live so I need some help from you people :)

  16. The fostex is generally crossed over 10khz so people do not care about that bump. However, I did cross mine around 6.5khz and still it works very well. The results on axis are quite flat too. Actually more flat than their chart? I do not know if it sounds good because it extends to high frequency extreme, but it does sound very relaxed and accurate. Its quite interesting for me to hear that much high frequency information with a relaxed presentation. I guess it is as important to have minimal distortion as being flat. Also some people consider +/-3db flat and some consider +/-1db flat. My system with the exception of a small low midbass bump and the tweeter crossover point is quite flat from 20hz to 20khz. It deviates less than 3db's and the bump I have is around 5db's at 160hz-180hz. The dip I have around 6.5khz is also around 4db's. My plan to get over that dip was to add another horn and a compression driver between 2khz and 10khz. It would also widen the sweet spot but putting a horn like that in between mids and tweeter, the tweeters and the new horn move physically so high that it starts presenting another challenge. To overcome that challenge I need to change the corner midbass with something shorter... The neverending story :) 

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