kodomo
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Posts posted by kodomo
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I have heard 900a's in shop and 500amkII's were better than those so I did not try the 90A's.
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it is 1000 each!
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Well, I have gone through 3 tweeters and ended up with Fostex t500amkII's. They are so much better than anything I have tried before! However, keep in mind, my midranges are also Greg's V-Tracs with BMS 4592nd-mid compression drivers.
I tried the stock tweeters, the beyma tweeters, the volti t-1 (these were very good as well) but these Fostex are in another league. Sound is so much less fatiguing. It is smooth yet you can hear all the high frequency information. It feels like I can hear the whole room the recordings were made in. The soundstage also has somehow widened and the localisations of the sounds are better perceived.
The only downside is they are very very expensive.
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It's going great. I can't wait to see the finished product. I hope you achieve good results in the sound department too! You are evidently going to be successful in the looks department.
Finish this and start measuring and sharing the info! Who knows maybe in the future I will ask for one for the centre channel
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I have solved my problem and will go ahead and share it if anyone encounters something similar.
It was a loose ribbon cable inside the player. I opened it up and there is a board that has the analog outputs on it. It is connected to the mainboard with a ribbon cable. This ribbon cable was disconnected from one end. Not through its connector though, the connector was in place. The ribbon itself was disconnected from the termination. It goes in it quite easily and stays there stable enough.
Everyhting works as planned now. Fronts connected to Line Magnetic 219ia and the surrounds are connected though the Primaluna Dialogue 2. Both in bypass mdoe so they act only as power amps.
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I am also using Oppo 105D at my place, however I have a problem. I like its sound when connected directly to power amps. I have 2 stereo amps. The fronts work when connected directly but I can not get any sound from the rear speakers.
Setup is:
Oppo 105d stereo analog out ---> Line Magnetic 219ia bypass in (power amp mode)
Oppo 105d rear analog outs ----> Primaluna Dialogue 2 bypass in (power amp mode) no sound!
Oppo HDMI out 1 ---> Projector
When I go into setup menu, I choose 5.1, turn the test tone on but the rear channels make no sound with the above connection...
What I did as a workaround, so I still could enjoy movies in surround sound is, connecting Oppo HDMI out 2 to my Pioneer VSX, and from Pioneer's analog pre outs, I then connect to my two power amps bypass ins. This works but I think I shouldn't need the Pioneer in between.
Anyone had a similar problem. Maybe I am missing something in the settings?
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Hey Arash!
What happened with your beautiful project? Keep us updated, it was going so good.
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I was also concerned about the height of the tweeter. I tried it in 3 different positions for about 2 months each! First I put the tweeter high enough so the vertical dispersion would not hit on top of the tophats. Although it was sounding good, this was a little too high. It was like listening to a concert from up close but the stage is high so you are listening from below. We could also distinguish sounds coming from the mids or tweeters which is not good.
Then I put them 10cm's lower. The vertical dispersion angle showed that now there will be some, if very little of the high frequencies hitting the top of the tophats. I heard no artifacts, but tweeters coming lower sounded in a better soundstage, still a little high but more cohesive.
Then I put them even lower and listen. It sounded much better and I could hardly hear any problems because of vertical dispersion. I always like basstraps on top khorns. It always help with the overall sound, making everything sounding better in my setup. So I cut into it a place for tweeter and keep it on top. Now the high frequencies travelling downwards would be hitting this panel first. We made blind tests with and without them basstrap. We decided this was the way to go. I don't know if this helps but at the end this setup was sounding much better than having tweeters. To be sure, we then put the tweeters back again to mids side and listened to extensively. Then put them back again on top with the basstrap. For me it was a big difference and in a positive way. So I will keep it like this.
I don't know, food for thought. I wish you end up with the best possible scenario!Next thing is changing the tweeter to Fostex t500amkII
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Arash, it seems it's going to be a wonderful speaker. You have good tools and you know how to use them. I suggest you not to put the tweeter by the midrange! I have lived with both. I had the same midrange horn with bms driver and a beyma tweeter. I heard them on the side and then on top aligned. I had both ways for more than a few months. Me and all my friends preferred them on top aligned. I have tried it with blind tests as well and preferred them on top all the time.
Make some blind tests yourself. Please do try. It seems its going to be a wonderful speaker, don't compromise
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It seems you are building a Volti Vittora clone more than a la scala. You have built the same midrange horn, have the same driver behind it (bms492nd-mid). If you make it curved as well, it will be very close to vittora. I didn't hear one, but everyone says they are very good! How does Greg do the curved part, did you ask him. He may help you if this is for your own pleasure and not a commercial product.
Don't forget he uses a subwoofer with it. His Vittoras extend to 50hz. You may also consider building a horn sub to go with your project, it may be a step up. Then it will be fully horn loaded.
Did you decide on tweeters. Are you going to build a passive crossover or use an active system? I'll be watching this
ps. sorry for not helping with your questions. You just need to be sure that slices don't come off. I have seen that happening on a cnc layered tower once!
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Canyonman what tweeters you had before? How do you think sound improved and what crossovers are you using?
You have a klipschorn like mine with bms and vtracs. Why did you crossover @ 80hz. My khorns can go down to 40hz and are sounding nice. What benefit you had from crossing @80hz?
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Arash, this seems exactly like Greg's horn. I use it with BMS 4592md mids. They sound great. Which tweeter and midbass you are planning to use it with. Have you done a crossover design? Check http://www.klipschupgrades.com/crossovers.shtml I am using the VTK400. Its great to have the flexibility on adjusting mid parameters and woofer cutoff point. I have padded down the bms drivers around 9db's. have also added 22 and 2.2 resistors to tweeters to pad them down 3db's, get the woofers cutoff lower and have a more flat response now. I am happy overall. I am planning on building a nice horn subwoofer. I have a few plans in my hands. I also will change the tweeters to fostex t500amkII's.
If you have these, why not try and build a nice midbass. Maybe you can try the 80hz midbass at Inlow (http://inlowsound.weebly.com/diy-80hz-midbass-horn.html). It seems with your knowledge, the plans supplied and your equipment it ll be easy for you. You can then add a 20hz to 80hz hown sub to complement that. If you have good tweeters like the fostex ones (t900 or even t90a) then you are set. People with upgraded khorns get a good sound and sometimes stop investigating. I have been on a continous journey. I have covered 20 to 20k now and having the actual full range is really nice and its hard to turn back. Now I am looking for more resolution. Thats why I am going to change my sub to a horn sub and tweeters to t500amkII.
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Mark, what do you use? What is your high quality multi output option. I want to learn about it, and learn about the price as well so I can start saving
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http://www.deqx.com/product-hdpExII-install.php
This seems like a good option. I wish I had a chance to give it a listen. I already have two amps. I can use LM 219ia for the midrange, primaluna dialogue 2 for tweeters, and get a solid state for the bass section.
http://www.deqx.com/product-hdp4-overview.php
This one seems to give the option of adding your own converters as well. However the cost is going higher and higher.
I also wonder how 3 different amps work together. Does it have any downsides except the electricity bill!
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Yes, it seems my solution is high quality active networks. It will have to wait a little more then...
The reason why bass traps work is because of the material used - most bass traps use Owens Corning 703, and it works very well as a broad-band absorber at high frequenciesYes, they should be called broad band absorbers. These bass traps I put on top are actually not very efficient for the deep bass at all. However, some thicker and denser ones like vicoustic bass panels, I put in the opposite corners of the rooms are really helping with the bass too.
Ok cool now when you say converters what exactly are you talking about? How did CD's get into this conversation?
It is not possible to listen to a cd without a converter as it is in digital domain
I meant, if I was against digital I wouldn't bother listening from digital sources at all. -
I am not biased against digital at all. I listen to cd, sacd and like dsd and also make my own recordings in digital domain. However my analog chain sounds better than my digital chain. So unless the converters which I will put in between doesnt degrade anything I dont want to put them in. I dont want to fix some problems and introduce others.
Well, we tried them on both sides and on top. We definitely preferred (with blind tests) them on top. I cant say I have incredible hearing, but we can hear the difference moving them back and forth on top as well. They sounded the best and most cohesive on top and drivers aligned. What is easiest to hear for us were the wind instruments, especially trumpets. They sounded most realistic with this setup.
We are two friends living together. We are musicians (guitarist and drummer, keys) and good music listeners (mostly jazz and blues, but also electronic and rock). I can also hear the effect of the acoustic absorbing panel (sideways bass trap) and it is very positive. Although its a bass trap, it somehow really helps out with the upper frequencies clarity.
I really want to align the bass section too. However I don't want to put dsp's in the chain. I don't like the converter quality in the ones I tried like minidsp. I have good converters in my music studio and we can hear a lot of difference between good and bad converters. I am looking for a way to do it passively. It is physically not possible to move the bass section. We need a passive crossover design that somehow makes up for this delay... or any other suggestions without converters?
So here you are saying that having the mids and tweeters aligned vertically as well as time aligned made a difference to your ears? Meaning I have my tweeters pushed back on the tops but, they are not exactly over the mid driver just the same distance back. Mine are in the center on top of the cabinet not off to the side like yours...
Yes, but the actual difference came from pushing them back. Centring them on top or aligning the drivers exactly doesn't make that much of a difference, as it is just a few centimeters. However, when they were completely to the side, they sound different to my ears. It is very easy to hear, put them completely outwards, have a listen, them move them completely inwards and have a listen. The soundstage changes a lot!
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When you change the physical space that a driver occupies - more changes than the time issue. At any rate, if you move the tweeter to the top and move it back, be sure to cover the surface and walls with a non-reflective material - I like felt.That is why I have the acoustic panel around the tweeter and where the reflections may occur.
Is there a way to time align bass section with passive networks. I do not want to break the analog chain with ad/da converters. Having ad/da converters as high quality as my analog chain would bankrupt me.
Chris A, at the first link you provided, I couldnt figure out that diagram. I have been looking into all pass networks, is it similar?
I have in my music studio apogee and motu converters. I also have a oppo 105d and it's got good converters in it, actually more precise and clean than my motus. I had the chance to hear mytek converters, prism orpheus converters etc. Lots of studio quality stuff. After hearing these, it is easier to identify lower quality converters. Sometimes I wish I didnt hear them...
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Well, we tried them on both sides and on top. We definitely preferred (with blind tests) them on top. I cant say I have incredible hearing, but we can hear the difference moving them back and forth on top as well. They sounded the best and most cohesive on top and drivers aligned. What is easiest to hear for us were the wind instruments, especially trumpets. They sounded most realistic with this setup.
We are two friends living together. We are musicians (guitarist and drummer, keys) and good music listeners (mostly jazz and blues, but also electronic and rock). I can also hear the effect of the acoustic absorbing panel (sideways bass trap) and it is very positive. Although its a bass trap, it somehow really helps out with the upper frequencies clarity.
I really want to align the bass section too. However I don't want to put dsp's in the chain. I don't like the converter quality in the ones I tried like minidsp. I have good converters in my music studio and we can hear a lot of difference between good and bad converters. I am looking for a way to do it passively. It is physically not possible to move the bass section. We need a passive crossover design that somehow makes up for this delay... or any other suggestions without converters?
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I have the same setup, I also plan on getting fostex tweeters. Which ones do you have? I plan on getting t500amkII.
With Gregs horns, your tweeters move to the side. I took them out and put them on top aligned with the mid driver vertically and horizontally
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For Khorns, I physically aligned my mids and tweeters and it helped. This is the lowest they can be with a slight tilt without having effects of hitting the top of tophats. The drivers are now horizontally and vertically aligned on top. They are VoltiT1 tweeters. We have made blindtests and everytime we ended up prefering this to tweeters being in the tophats to the sides (volti upgrade fits inside tophats like that). Here are two photos:
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Can I steer the thread to another fostex tweeter
I am on the verge of buying the fostex t500amkII. However, on this forum, there are some messages from years ago about their dispersion characteristics being narrow and not fitting to khorn.
I have heard a lower model and it was very good. It was not on my own system. My system consists of v-trac horns with 2" mouths, bms 4592nd-mid drivers and I have Greg's Volti T1 tweeters. I know we are not able to hear much over 16khz but I have listened to supertweeters and they do make a difference. This I confirmed with a blind test on my own. So I do not have hang ups about that.
Has anyone actually tried the t500amkII here with their horns? Is it really problematic, or are they really that good? (there are some people worshipping these)
ps. I have messaged Erland, I hope he contributes to this thread as he is an owner of a pair of t500amkII's.
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I checked all that. I tried connecting a 9v battery to test if there is any sound coming out at all, and none! Still, I installed both crossovers and made all the connections except the tweeter. I will wait till my fostex arrive and install my volti t1's to these.
I also plan on dividing the cabinets into two. I couldnt fit both of them in my 4 door wrangler!
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I have a problem. Everything is working but the tweeters. I thought there may be something wrong with the crossovers, so I tried connecting the tweeters directly to the amp, full range, just for a test. No crossovers but still both of them are unresponsive?
It seems like I am missing something here! Any help?
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I have replaced mine with Crites woofers. I have also changed the crossovers, so I am not 100% sure it is because of the woofers, but my bass bins are sounding a little less distorted and extend a little deeper.
Oris 150's have arrived !
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
Arash I would love to hear what you think about these and how they compare to (bruce edgar) tractrix you have made and used with BMS 4592nd-mid. It's a little apples and oranges situation but I still think there can be comparisons made.