Audible Nectar

When it comes to "most significant amplifier of all time" - in terms of history, design, AND sonics, it will always be the McIntosh MC30 for me. No disrespect intended to the other greats, like Dynaco and Marantz....in fact, if you combine those three you have the holy trinity of power......

If you want to come out to the Quad Cities, you can hear my six Cornwall HT (and a 2 channel system within this - Peach>VRDs>Cornwalls), as well as Belle Klipsch fed by McIntosh MC30. Email or PM is you're interested.....

For me, Dave, I think my mental marriage to 2 channel for music is primarily borne out of the fact that I'm still rediscovering the magic of 50+ years of stereo audio through my systems, and I have a bit of a "rule" here: 2 good channels of audio must exist before proceeding to more channels than that. I don't want multichannel expenditures cutting into my 2 channel quality, because, as I say, I'm still "re-enjoying" and rediscovering the history of 2 channel music and that's enough to keep me busy in and of itself. The introduction of the DVD video disc as "consumer standard" is what got me interested in multichannel, because now the discrete mutichannel audio was now a possibilty on an "off the shelf at your video store" level. This saturation makes the added investment worth it, and I have been pretty engrained in multichannel for film and concert video (pretty much all of my multichannel music habit) for some time now. But it's NOT "all about the explosions" - in fact, it's actually the opposite. I want titles that make the most of the six Cornwalls and so yes it's about the fidelity and true realism of the experience, just as it is for 2 channel to the degree that format allows. However, I'm not as willing to buy into the "esoteric" formats to get the best of the best in multichannel audio. I want universal formats that go massive with the public, because you get more choices and more return on the investment dollars spent. I'll let the guinea pigs pay the higher early entry fees until those formats either live or die with the overall public....such as Blu-Ray, the now accepted standard for HD video. Now that Blu-Ray has emerged as the new HD standard, I'll now jump in and spend a more normal amount of $$ to tap the capabilities of that medium. Had mutichannel hi-res audio taken off better with the public I would probably step into more of those titles, and still don't exclude additional investment in this area where crossover formats exist in video decks. My main drive for building a multichannel system was the standard issue DVD video disc, and will certainly continue with Blu-Ray and possibly any audio formats that crossover on those machines.

I built a combo system for the purpose of doing 2 channel (all tube) as well as multichannel movies and music. My intent was to provide a system that would do all three well, that could "roll" with whatever format, be it audio or video. One thing I found out quickly is that multichannel music systems can turn out VERY nice if you use identical speakers. When I did the "first incarnation", it was Cornwalls as mains, Academy as center, and Chorus as surrounds. For movies, it sounded quite good, and aside from a bit of strain with the Academy was a very good sounding HT, and could fool an only HT user into thinking that "it can't get much better than this". That is until I heard what it sounded like using six identical Cornwalls, then I discovered how "locked in" the sound was, and how much better the center channel could be. Multichannel music was a real revelation. Discs like "The Eagles: Hell Freezes Over" or Steely Dan's "Two Against Nature" are phenomenal multichannel examples and justify the system building effort, and the system leaves me open to more of these multichannel specialties. I do tend to focus on 2 channel, however, when listening to music through this system....I tend to tie the multichannel music to the video titles in a theater setting, and don't often seek out 5.1 music only titles. I use my multichannel for movies and concert films much more often than I do for strictly music only. When it's music only I do that in 2 channel - it's all tube so it's hard to step away from that in music only applications, and it's very "3-D" so I don't pine for the multichannel mixes much......just a superb 2 channel recording.

There's a reason for this. Yes, piracy is cutting into musical band's profits. In the current paradigm, this usually means that bands count on touring to make money.....so if you wonder why every recognizable band that comes along charges $100+ per ticket, that's one reason. To counter this, some musicians are going DIRECT to the fans and offering product - exclusive product - which might be tickets, special edition merchandise, etc....which will be worth MUCH more than the bands charge - especially if they are really popular. THIS IS A GREAT THING!!!!!! For YEARS, we have asked the record companies to get out of the way and let the bands offer us what THE BAND wants, and not what the executive from BigMusicCorp or LiveNation wants. So many acts are doing this. The worry from the band's perspective is that "profiteers" will sign up just to get the goodies and sell those rare items for profit. Asset flippers, like ticket scalpers, just "buying in" to make money off of this stuff. The band wants these items to be for people who genuinely want the items - who are fans of the band - and aren't just out to make a buck. The rock band Phish is a good study on what happens when a band sells tickets through it's own agency, then ignores what happens after that. Frequently, "Phans" will have every friend they know order "Phish Tickets By Email" (NO club membership required), then turn around and sell quality $60 face value tix for $200-$500 each. This system doesn't serve the average Phish fan - it serves the "asset flippers" in the crowd who do these special "band fan offerings" strictly for profit. THIS is what TMBG is trying to fight.

Ohhhhh, goooooodeeeeee[] This might actually turn out to be an easier project than first thought.....save for sorting through the dizzying array of options. And yes, a Cornwall - no different than the other five like it in the system[Y] Time to get a display that lives up to the audio....

I am considering large flatscreen options, and am curious if these new HD displays - LED, LCD, or plasma - are subject to magnetism issues from being close to speakers. One possible configuration here could have me laying an old school Cornwall II on it's side as center, placing the HD display above it. I'm curious as to what I can get away with here.....

Well done. Enjoy the lifelike and effortless performance.

THIS :-) I don't care what your budget is - any HT enthusiast here reading this should want what Indy is talking about here. The man knows what he types here. The problem is 20+ years of "programming" by the electronic manufacturers on the planet who think that those "made for HT center speakers" are the way to build an HT, because they programmed you into choosing the TV FIRST. This is incorrect. Time for us to reprogram you. Especially now, with all manner of wall mountable HD displays being the norm, the HT shop and/or salesman of your choice should be showing you that FULL SIZED CENTER, a "third main" which is capable of handling that 75ish percent of program material that gets run through it. Figure out the center speaker FIRST, then choose a display that will work around it. This speaker is very bit as important in building a true "best quality" HT as your display is. This way, the spoken dialogue will be fully intelligible, and your center won't puke when the full power of that 75% kicks in. If you are starting from scratch - or are looking for that truly meaningful upgrade - how's your three full sized mains in your HT looking? Don't have this? There's your upgrade..... Lemme tell ya....six Cornwalls in the HT ROCK. And with a pair of JBL 4638 twin 15 bass cabs, it's effortless, seamless, high impact performance. FOR LIFE. No hi-fi shop would have sold me this, but I found out why and how to do this here. THINK BIG[H]

For the simple Heritage networks (A/AA/B/E) the V-Cap OIMP is the best I've used, and I've tried a lot of them: Stock, Motorola replacements (just like old stock but 'fresh", Sonicap whites (good value here and more revealing), Auricaps, Hovlands.....but the V-Caps stand alone. For horns they're just perfect. Expensive, though - but for those who decide that they prefer the simple network formulas (A/AA...) and want the most transparent and revealing network out of that type of build, they are the bees knees......[8-|] And while being that revealing, they are juuuuuuuust "wet" enough to just let the music shine through.

You can have the "schmaltz". I prefer simple and well made. VRDs. MC30s. MC60s. 8b. Simple. Solid. Classy. Not a blue meter on 'em.

As the owner of a six Cornwall theater, I agree with you. The Chorus II is a much more refined speaker than any Cornwall. The tractrix horns image better, the bass is tighter, and they take up less room. NOT the Chorus I's - I prefer Cornwalls (better bass). So why do I own Cornwalls? If I was only gonna have two, for a two channel system, I would choose Chorus II over Cornwall if the choice had to be between those. Point of fact I would go larger into fully horn loaded Heritage. Because this project ended up being a six channel HT layout using six identical speakers, I thought the Cornwall would be easier to obtain, and easier to buy replacement parts for. In fact, parts are so plentiful for the mid sixties through 1980 versions (the AlNiCo mids and tweets) that I can just stock up on 'em through the used market. As I plan to keep these speakers for the "duration", I figured the standard Cornwall to be more "serviceable" over that lifetime duration. I also like the mid sixties and 70's cabinet work. The Cornwall IS still the best used speaker deal on the planet, and very formidable - there's just so much inherently "right" with Cornwalls. The Chorus II is a more refined version. So yeah - I'll agree with you.

Very impressive gear.......although I must say that these are "not for me". No way do I need that kind of wattage, especially when I run my tube amps in the under 5 watt area the overwhelming majority of the time. I am curious about his preamp to be, though.....

What can you tell us about your room (dimensions, etc)? Do you have corners to install Klipschorns and if so, how much distance from corner to corner where the speakers will be placed? Tube gear sounds very good on Klipschorns, and while it's not the only option many of us find tubes to be very well suited for horns. Lots of choices on CD players.....the used market affords average buyers many audiophile options. Ah! Tjoeb 4000 and Rega Planet are two decks that offer very good playback without breaking the bank....and there are others as well. Many have modified the output stages of CD players aftermarket, which can bring audiophile quality for less as well.

Artto beat me to it. Kohler is THE BEST toilet available - on about every measure you can mention on a toilet. They have the best flush power for any unit quantity used per flush. ABSOLUTELY best/easiest to clean too. You notice the toilet when it causes you problems. My toilet issues quit entirely when I had Kohlers installed here. I have never used a plunger in the 5+ years since I had Kohlers installed...although I did replace the valve rigs (easy).

Yes, very often, music WAS mixed on horn/compression driver speakers. Setups like large JBL monitors powered by Mac or similar amps were common in studios. So it's no wonder to these ears why my Belle Kipsch powered by MC30s sound so good, especially with music from that era. Stuff like this WAS "high end" in the 1960s...studios and music lovers the world over used gear like this, and so do I[8-|]

The Chorus II's would win out for me, Bill. The more open mids and deeper bass response make them a clear winner in my book, and I would have those upgraded all the way for the long haul. Tractrix horns, too....they image very nicely. The Chorus I vs the Fortes is a different animal, though. My only complaint about the Chorus I is that the lower bass response doesn't kick in until you put a little volume on them, and even then they don't go as low as CIIs and Fortes do. The Fortes and Chorus IIs are much better in this area, make sure you can live with the Chorus I bass before making your final decision. But for $50, it's the best speaker deal evah - you get the mid and highs of the larger heritage and that's worth many multiples of the $50 you spent. The Chorus II's are as close to "the complete and total package" as you can get without going to the Cornwall (and CIIs have advantages over Cornwalls, too) or the Belle/LaScala/Klipschorn. CII is very underrated and does not get the attention they deserve.

SET can be very alluring, however it can also be very restrictive depending on what you listen to (and what dynamics are required). For me, the "be all end all without going broke" 2 channel Heritage amplification solution is the custom built NOSValves VRD monoblocks, 60 watts per block of custom-built-for-Heritage, tube rectified KT88 goodness. With the quality preamp of your choice, it's a setup that could well be a "lifer". I had mine stuffed with top flight caps and vintage tubes for even better performance. I am also a big fan of McIntosh MC30s but for specific reasons....the VRDs are so audiophile right that I can recommend them for KHorns without reservation. A vintage Mac tube system can be as good as anything out there - for certain tastes. Midrange is sublime. I do agree that listening to these recommended amplifiers is the way to find your favorite solution. Just about every recommendation on this page so far has some merit, listening dials the compass in that much more. DO also search the forums to read about all of these.

From one tenth year forum member to another, congratulations[8-|] Rome wasn't built in a day, but ten years makes for a lot of progress when spent here. I think I am much like you when considering the impact this forum has had on our systems and the people we have met. I know we agree when I say that we could not have done it without this place.

If the trannies are good and working, this might be a candidate for a "rechassis". Seemed to me there is a fellow here (Scott?) who had some of these chassis redone, and while it would be a lot of work, it would be a job worth doing if the irreplaceable electronics in this amp are OK.

I'm no expert on the subject, but on my MC30's, I have them hooked up to a variac as a permanent deal. Reason being that those amps are used occasionally - maybe every other weekend - and I'm not a big fan of allowing all that juice to thwack these vintage amps all at once. ESPECIALLY the replacement CE cans, which aren't as thoroughly/well manufactured as the older originals.... Now my VRD/Peach setup I use about 5 times a week. No variac necessary here: VRDs have 5AR4 slow start rectifiers (easy on the output tubes at start) and regular use has me less worried about variac-ing. So for me, it's mostly about frequency of use, and the added desire to take special care of my vintage gears. I might not even have to do this on my Macs....but again, it's more a "special care to be sure" kind of thing as much as anything else. If I went months between power ups I would definitely use a variac.

Klipsch Cornwall is STILL the best used speaker deal on the planet.

Best preamp for a pair of MC30 would be the C22 or C20. Second best preamp for MC30 would be an MX110. All three fit the MC30 sonics like a glove. I spent a good couple of years having my two MC30 pairs and MX110 refurbished (and with great assistance from tech-minded forum members); on the Belle Klipsch the midrange is legend. The MC30s are so divine I own two pairs (diffierent coupling caps for a modest change in the sonic finish). I have written extensively on this topic. I would hesitate to recommend as a LONG TERM solution using the gain pots on the MC30 as a volume control. It's an OK way to try them out, though, once they have passed snuff on the bench. The MC30 deserve an appropriate matching MC pre from that era to really make them shine.

BEER CANS[8-|]

Dear Watson, My 4 Heritage pairs in no way makes me certifiable. Sincerely, The 100 12AX7s, 60 12AU7s, 25 5AR4s, 10 matched quads of KT88, 14 matched GEC KT66, and the other 200 vintage tubes in my collection