Opus
-
Posts
455 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
3
Content Type
Forums
Events
Gallery
Posts posted by Opus
-
-
-
Journey
Captured
-
3
-
-
7 hours ago, ACV92 said:
It is terribly disappointing when you think that you've got a great sounding setup and others just shrug their shoulders. Although, if these 'folks' are used to listening to crappy Bose or some little satellite system they've accustomed their ears to we're a bit SOL.
While I enjoying having others audition my systems, it is not disappointing to me if they are not impressed. The only person I want my audio systems to impress is me. If you listen to my systems and just shrug your shoulders, or even harshly criticize it, I don't care. Conversely, if you listen to my systems and express pure joy and amazement, it doesn't really bring me any greater satisfaction. That doesn't mean that I don't value your thoughts and comments. I may very well learn from your experiences, reactions and comments, but they don't change the level of enjoyment for me. I'm not trying to sell anything. Not the gear, not the technology, not the experience... nothing.
2 hours ago, Schu said:I can count, in less than a couple handfuls, the times that I was really impressed by others set ups. Most of the time I find them flat and suffering from the typical "wall of sound" phenomenon, and this includes systems that are supposed to be much more capable than my my own. I am convinced that many owner are not capable of discrimination despite owning great gear.
I have had similar experiences. However, they don't lead me to the conclusion that those people are not capable of discrimination (although that may be the case sometimes). I just accept that what they like to hear is different than what I like to hear, or their hearing is different than mine. I'm glad they have an audio system that they are proud of, and that brings them joy; whatever the source of that joy may be.
-
1
-
-
-
2
-
-
19 minutes ago, oldtimer said:22 minutes ago, windashine said:
are we discussing screw cap's or vented polymer bags in a cardboard container ?
Container type is irrelevant.
How about homemade muscadine wine in a jelly jar?
-
2 minutes ago, jimjimbo said:
And no coaster on the top of that beautiful unit? You heathen!
It was just for the picture. I don't have much room for staging photographs here. Don't worry, that NEVER happens on the SX-1250 at home.
-
6 minutes ago, Chris A said:
I wonder how many on the forum (particularly those pooh-poohing ABX testing here and elsewhere) would say that Roy himself conducted extensive A-B trials using Jubilees in different configurations
I'm not pooh-poohing A/B/X testing. I have said, in this thread, that it is necessary for designing and building quality products. I've seen Roy's lab, and I certainly appreciate his efforts (and have immense respect for his knowledge and experience). But I am not designing, building, or selling audio products. I'm a consumer of audio products. I think that A/B/X testing, or other scientific methods, are less important than "real world" listening when it comes to me deciding what I like. I've said it many times... if it makes me smile when I listen to it, it's good!
-
Subjectively/Emotionally testing/enjoying my SX-850 and KG4s at my cabin on a Friday evening....
-
1
-
-
53 minutes ago, Bosco-d-gama said:
Others may be skeptical but there’s a science to this and the main applications are in advertising
I'm not necessarily skeptical of the science. It's more that I'm skeptical of how the data that was obtained through that science has been manipulated and presented. There's always some bias there. As you said, "...the main applications are in advertising."
For me how something sounds "in reality" is more important than how it "sounds" according to the data.
57 minutes ago, Bosco-d-gama said:We choose to split hairs to the nth degree...... and it is fun to boot.
Yep.
-
3 hours ago, Ski Bum said:
Of course you're the arbiter of what you like, but like it or not, your perceptions are just as mutable as anybody else's. Do you want them based on illusory improvements, or genuinely audible improvements? ABX is a tool to separate the wheat from the chaff, and help inform you how to best spend your hard earned ducats, either on worthy upgrades vs. expensive placebos of transient efficacy. The illusory gains only work until they don't, after all.
Yep, my perceptions are mutable. I said as much when I said that in an A/B/X test I might like A one session and then B the next session. In addition to enjoying the music, part of the fun of this hobby is hearing that music on different systems, and deciding which I like better; But, I don't think that can done in a brief A/B/X session. I want/like to hear something over an extended period of time, under different circumstances, and with different music.
Fortunately I have yet to fall for any of the multitudes of expensive "snake oil" gadgets, gizmos, and fixes in this hobby. In large part due to my healthy skepticism of "scientific data" put forth by those that sell that stuff.
-
1
-
-
3 minutes ago, Ski Bum said:
I see two branches of science being thrown under the bus by the subjectivist contingent. They seem to deny the realities of the more reductive science of electrical engineering, and apparently have no understanding at all of the science of human perception. Y'alls really should study the subject further, as there is a hundred years or so of solid peer reviewed research dating back to the Bell Labs days on the subject.
That's somewhat condescending. I may not be an expert in "the science of human perception." But, I am the expert in my own perception of what I like and don't like; as is every other individual on this planet.
I am not throwing science under the bus. There are many aspects of the hi-fi hobby to be enjoyed. If one's enjoyment comes from building/creating/analyzing, then, sure, applying scientific methodologies is relevant and valid. But if one's enjoyment comes from the emotional impact of listening to music, IMHO, scientific analysis is not the deciding factor. Scientific methodologies cannot determine what will bring me enjoyment and make me smile.
Some of us enjoy designing/building/improving various audio reproduction components. Some of us enjoy listening to the music reproduced by those components. Which of those is your primary motivation sort of determines your thoughts on this. And, it is possible for one's primary interest to move between those two over time.
-
3 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:
Since I was present during the very beginnings of the "AB/X Box" and experienced it for myself, I think I have a positive viewpoint to contribute here. This, as opposed to all the negative viewpoints for those who have had ZERO AB/X experience and are missing the basic premise. Are we clear? Here we go:
Thanks for the detailed description ClaudeJ1. I think I understand the premise. And, I am not trying to dismiss the technical or statistical validity of such testing. However, for me the enjoyment of this hobby comes primarily from the emotional impact of listening to the music. I suspect if I were to be subjected to that sort of testing, I may not be able to meet your 12 out of 16 goal. I may even be inconsistent in which one I preferred from one test session to the next. Since for me listening to music is an emotional thing, my preferences are likely influenced by things such as my current mood, how bad/good my day has been thus far, etc.
Such critical/technical analysis is necessary to develop quality products. It's just not necessary for me to determine what makes me smile while listening to my music.
-
1
-
-
29 minutes ago, Bosco-d-gama said:
Research certainly can devise studies with meaningful results. Manufacturing anything is very costly so genuine market research is a paramount part of predictable business. Try and obtain business financing without product development research in your business plan. Without that data, those charts, the understanding of market segments, customer profiles, etc...... and your business will navigate on a wing and a prayer. Pragmatism has its rewards.
Understood. However one must realize that the results that are presented from such evaluation/research do contain some bias, and weight them accordingly. As I said before, I tend to put more weight on the personal listening experiences of myself and others. I have always been, and always will be, skeptical of claims made by anyone trying to sell something. That doesn't mean I completely discount those claims, I just realize there is some bias in them somewhere. Does that mean that I have bought some audio gear that I ultimately did not like? Sure. But, there was value in spending some time listening to it.
As for babadono's original question; is there merit to A/B testing? Maybe. But, I feel like I am happier with my choices regarding the gear I use after long-term listening. I might like something after a brief listening session, but after spending a few weeks with it decide I don't care for it as much as I originally thought. After all, I plan to listen to music over the long term, not just for 10 minutes, or an hour.
Maybe another thing that affects my approach to this is that logic and critical analysis are a big part of my job every day. In my leisure time, it's nice to escape from that and just enjoy the emotional experience of well-reproduced music.
-
26 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:
But we are in the minority here. Don't ever describe your listening experience on an emotional level, or use words like "liquid midrange" or "musical" or "PRAT". And be careful preferring one amplifier over another because of how "it sounds" (yeah I know, wrong thread).
Yeah, I know. But, being in the minority doesn't bother me. I have no issue with those that enjoy A/B testing and technical analysis; as long as they don't try to tell me that I'm wrong in what I like because I don't evaluate things the way they do.
As I said previously, I have three different vintage Pioneers (2 receivers, 1 integrated amp), all from the same era. Each one of them has a unique sound (to me). Oh yeah, I have a Sony AVR from the 90s. It too has a unique sound; one that I don't care for.
-
11 hours ago, Bosco-d-gama said:
If you used each person as their own control then you could ascertain clearer results. Test the same person weekly for a month and compare them to themselves to assess decision continuity. Then study a group of people in the same fashion, using the same systems, environments and music and look for crowd preference patterns. The bigger the test group the greater the validity of the results (good or not-so-good). You have to assume that focus group studies similar to this is done by Klipsch and others. This ABX tool sounds ideal for this stuff.
That's a whole lot of trouble just to decide what sounds best. Why go through all of that, unless you are trying to sell something? And if you are trying to sell something, there's your bias. I can't put much faith in these sorts of elaborate tests/evaluations/comparisons. There is always some sort of agenda involved.
If one enjoys examining the technical accuracies of things for their own self satisfaction, that's fine. But, that doesn't mean that I should give much credence to your results. I need to hear something to decide whether it sounds good to me. All the graphs, charts, diagrams, waveforms, etc. cannot tell me if I will like the way it sounds. I would rather hear someone describe their experience in listening to something rather than have them show me test data that shows "...there's hole at 132.5 Hz, and at 3500 Hz there's a 7 dB peak..." or "...73.4 percent of people preferred the sound of A over B..."
Listening to music is, or should be, an emotional experience; not a scientific one.
-
1
-
-
4 minutes ago, jimjimbo said:
If you prefer it, then it sounds better (to you), simple as that. A/B/X testing or double blind or whatever you want to call it, has lots of merit (to me).
Those two sentences don't seem to go together. I agree with the first one. But if something sounds better to me, it doesn't matter how I came to that conclusion. A/B/X, DBT, etc. isn't necessary.
Unless you're trying to sell it to someone else. Maybe that's the difference with me; I'm not trying to sell anything to anybody. I just want to enjoy my music.
-
1
-
-
If it makes me smile when I listen to it, then it's good! For me, that's what matters.
Currently I have three 2 channel systems. All three are vintage Pioneers driving vintage Klipsch speakers (1989 La Scalas, 1978 Heresies, and 198x KG4s). They all sound different, but they all make me smile. Sometimes I just sit and listen while I read, sometimes I listen intently to the music. But, they never fail to put a smile on my face.
I didn't buy my gear to impress other people. It's for me.
-
4
-
-
On 10/27/2018 at 7:45 PM, dirtmudd said:
where else can you buy new vinyl on line....
other than Amazon ?
-
2
-
1
-
-
On 10/19/2018 at 9:42 PM, dirtmudd said:
Nice sx !
Thanks! That's the SX-1250 that I bought from @jimjimbo . I have a SX-850 too. Love both of them!
-
3
-
-
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Couldn't Stand The Weather
-
5
-
-
6 hours ago, WillyBob said:
That is what my sister was telling that she had seen at a recent show. She drew a bunch of ??? from me
Mentioned the system being advertised, got second billing.
a link... not affiliated
https://www.prosoundweb.com/channels/live-sound/on_with_the_show/
They do appear to be Claire arrays. The article you linked has a picture of the setup for the 2015 tour. They had a different configuration in Tulsa for this tour. It sounded good.
-
4
-
-
I went to the Fleetwood Mac show in Tulsa Wednesday night. It was the first show of their 2018 North American Tour. Overall, it was a good show. Mike Campbell and Neil Finn did a decent job. The first song of the encore was a tribute to Tom Petty with Free Fallin'.
Here's the setlist: https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/fleetwood-mac/2018/bok-center-tulsa-ok-1be905bc.html
Does anyone have any idea what these speakers are?
-
3
-
-
1 hour ago, WillyBob said:
Almost dropped down to see ya. Ran into some folks headed there. So, How was the bike rally?
Sorry I missed you. Depending on what day you passed through, you probably saw a lot of motorcycles on the road.
Bikes, Blues, & BBQ brings several hundred thousand folks to town. Since I don't have a motorcycle, we head to our cabin for a few days. It's on Table Rock Lake in southwest Missouri. You could of stopped by there, it's actually closer to your route. Of course, I couldn't have demoed my La Scalas for you; I just have KG4s there.
Hope you're enjoying your newly acquired La Scalas!
-
3
-
-
On Woot.com...
Klipsch R-15M Bookshelf Speakers and Powergate Amplifier - $299.99
-
1
-
Vinyl - Record Spinning
in Lounge
Posted
NIce play @Full Range ! I have an original pressing of that in my collection in VG+/M- condition. One of my prized LPs.
My current play:
Chris Stapleton
Traveler