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rogerx

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About rogerx

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  • Location
    Ohio
  • My System
    Yamaha RX-V375 5.1 100 watts per channel. Speakers, we'll find out sometime soon. Currently using a pair of wall speakers. Past, 1992 Bose surround speakers.

    A fan of S/PDIF Toslink! A real hater of HDMI, as DMCA or copyright protocols took priority over quality and ease of use of the HDMI protocols. Albeit, the Linux kernel HDMI drivers are somewhat usable, when compared to Windows operating systems.
  1. My thoughts on this in-wall/ceiling speakers versus floor speakers within wooden boxes; if your room is large enough, fine you have a choice. But if you have limited space, then wall (or ceiling) speakers are likely your best option if you can run the wire cheaply within the walls, or opt for wall mount options. (The wire-mold is much too expensive per foot!) And if you have an idea what you're doing acoustically, you'll find ways to fix problems more easily. Easy method, use those floor speakers within wooden speakers. For me, no matter how large my room is, I'll always opt for wall or ceiling speakers, whether mounted or flush. I cannot stand furniture always being in the way, including wires. (But give me a choice between HDMI or S/PDIF, and I'll jump for S/PDIF over HDMI any day!) In my last house, I installed speaker wiring in the ceiling for two entertainment center locations, providing four runs speaker wire for front and rear speakers for both prospective entertainment center locations. (The center speaker is usually easy to run without having to run wire inside a wall or ceiling.) Now the future home buyer can enjoy surround or four speaker Mozart, without having to mess much with the wiring himself! I'll very likely do the same install at this house as well. (Similar to providing 10/100/1000 network wiring to every room in a house.)
  2. Never thought of cutting holes in my walls for the wall speakers, and then calling out the local stereo retailer to try-out some wall speakers! For the time being and for testing sound quality, I've chosen to buy five very cheap 8 ohm speakers consisting of similar speaker material for installing within the walls. Luckily, most of the more costly wall speakers require larger diameter (drywall) openings, so I shouldn't have to worry about patching the walls if I later upgrade the speakers. NOTE: It wasn't really the fact that I was familiar with the music material for testing, but the fact I knew I had (in hand) very vanilla sounding music material and consisting of music from a broad range of frequencies and tones. And the only way to definitely discern a loss or gain, is also by performing an immediate side by side comparison. (ie. Probably would notice little difference by listing to my speakers at home, then driving 30 minutes and listening to the same material at a stereo store unless I had a superior memory far superior to a human's normal ability.)
  3. wvu80: In my opinion, end users should not have to do something like that, as the so-called experts should have done so already especially with nowadays technology! 20 years ago or earlier when we were kids, yea we did all that fun stuff. But with the little required effort, I don't blame you. The only thing to remember is the speaker usually is designed to require some space behind it in order to breath or respond properly. (ie. Infinite Baffle) If you look at the "R-5800-W II In-Wall Speaker" with a frequency response of 40Hz-23KHz and having Infinite Baffle, there's likely little need to do any modifications and the frequency range might solve my hearing problems with woodwinds. (The only likely modification might be to encase the inner wall with MFD or plywood, albeit costly and time consuming.) Since this is a manufactured home (or small homes usually having small living rooms), I'm definitely opting for the "R-5800-W II In-Wall Speaker". With small rooms, I'm always having problems with furniture in front of speaker placement. In wall speakers, problem solved and the job is done quickly, and no messing with shelving or bookshelves or loose wires while vacuuming. I'm now in the process of ensuring the installation locations are optimal with some general 2 x 40hz-20kHz 8" speakers and 2 x 45-20kHz 8" speakers. (I hate cutting more then one whole per speaker.) (Note: People renting or not wanting to learn about building codes, should probably continue buying the floor or bookshelf models.)
  4. MetropolisLakeOutfitters: Or the woodwinds are there, they just cannot be (whether uncommon or commonly, or whether abnormally or normally) heard above the horns. Either more comparison testing between live and recorded, or examining something like a RightMark Audio Analyzer, to further determine. Shrugs. What you're describing is exactly the same scenario I heard with Mozart and the other orchestra pieces noted within my initial post!
  5. Chris A: I think you have something concerning "flattening out" the equalizer settings. On my home Yamaha RX-V375, Yamaha's custom equalizer settings are set on by default (or revert to on/enabled on reset), for which I quickly disabled and enjoyed the vanilla sound over any other custom equalizer settings! At the stores, just another small detail that could have been easily missed or overlooked. Possibly neutralizing the equalizer settings or setting the equalizer settings for producing a vanilla sound might have fixed the missing woodwinds. Thanks Chris A for your time!
  6. There's another miss, I also forgot to perform the auto calibration at HHGreg's. Since I really liked the clearness of the Klipsch, I will likely pair them and/or experiment with some of the old polymer composites, etc. (ie. Polk) Thanks for everybody's feedback. Albeit, I'm still wondering where those woodwinds are, or if I was really hearing them as a different instrument or at a different tone. And thanks for the praise of the RB 61's, because I just realized the RB 81's are $400 each and not a pair, unlike the RB 61's priced per pair! As I keep gnawing over the data here, I might just opt for in-wall speakers. (I might save a buck on the wood enclosure, and focus the money on the speaker itself. ie. R-5800-W II In-Wall Speaker 40Hz-23kHz.)
  7. Thanks wvu80, but it's just my all-around atypical post, albeit one of my more lengthier ones. Your note concerning the wattage per channel including reduced wattage when two or more channels are used is dually noted! Something I've probably been over-looking when looking for new speakers. (So many facts to research and remember.) In my opinion, a receiver should probably have no problems driving the usual eight inch speakers. However, according to some posts on the Internet suggest sizing speaker wattage at 1.5 times each channel's possible output, and not providing enough watts could cause issues with a speaker's quality of sound reproduction. As you state though, along with the wattage issue and missing instruments or frequencies, likely I'll just have to buy and try. Room dynamics, loudness, a fresh new product, can all be factors. I was just hoping I might find somebody with either a solution, an answer, or at the very least get the information out on a public forum for a second set of ears to confirm what I'm hearing.
  8. Yesterday I was able to compare Klipsch Reference I, R-15M Monitor and R-28F Floorstanding speakers to a Polk bookshelf monitor and floorstanding speakers. Media: Essential Mozart; Decca; ASIN B00005A8JZ; 2 Audio CD; March 13, 2001. First two or three titles. The Most Relaxing Music in the Universe; Denon Records; ASIN B00008RH16; 2 Audio CD; April 8, 2003. First two or three titles. Speakers: Klipsch Reference I, R-15M Monitor and R-28F Floorstanding speakers Similar models of bookshelf and floorstanding Polks Receivers: Either Onkyo or Pioneer. What I noticed: PROS: 1) Seemingly far more frequency range then the Polks! Klipsch had spectacular body or detail, or articulation of the instruments and notes being played during playback of Mozart's symphonies. 2) Horns and strings have great detail! Able to hear the horns with such detail, including the rubber crossing the metal strings of the violin. 3) The Polks sounded as if I were at the orchestra, but situated upon a high balcony in the distance looking downward at the orchestra; with the orchestra sounding as if they had a blanket draped over them, substantially damping the sound that they were producing. In retrospect, the Klipsch sounded as if the orchestra were in the same room or extremely nearby and on the same floor level as I. Both speakers were at the same floor level, next to each other, aimed within the same general direction. And the effect was not irritating, and was how I would assume speakers should sound as speakers are usually placed generally where people want the apparent effect of sound to be produced or originate from! CONS; 1) The Klipsch apparently sounded as if they were completely missing woodwinds or clarinets, or the details of this frequency range. The Polks had no problems reproducing the woodwinds, albeit with the above derogatory notes. 2) The Klipsch, again, missing the bass of the piano's hammer hitting the strings, but only until the piano sounds reached the apparent peak efficiency frequency range of the Klipsch. The Klipsch then reproduced a wonderful mid-ranged (and likely upper range) sound of the piano sounds and notes. Some thing to remember, it would have taken another 24 hours to sort through each of the above observations, further benchmarking or trying to distinguish what I was really hearing, such as playing back woodwind or piano sonatas. I didn't want to over extend my stay at Erie PA's HHGreg with Marcos, even thought Marcos did state he was also enjoying recognizing the differences as well! Troubled as to why I wasn't able to effectively hear the woodwinds or the range of the bass provided by the pianos, I went to Best Buy's next door whom had a working Klipsch display models as well, as well as several working sub-woofers. Unfortunately, I noticed a similar experience noted above, with only the Klipsch sub-woofers providing the kicking or vibrating sounds while providing very little low frequency sounds even after levels being adjusted. The cheap $100 Polk sub-woofer seemed to provide the most upper range of bass, but still only kicking or mostly vibrating. I would assume this is to be the expected theatrical performance with sub-woofers, though unfortunate and a waste of resources for music lovers? Bottom line, I'm in the market for purchasing a set of (large) book shelf speakers, for using within a surround sound or at least four channel mode for playback of classical or orchestra music. (Surround obviously is for TV/Movies, as the rears are usually currently only used to playback the compressed streams.) My receiver is a Yamaha RX-V375, which provides 100 watts for each channel, and has a chip for mirroring or duplicating the vanilla front left and right audio of stereo streams to the rear left and right channels with no added effects. Hence, a need for good rear speakers, or speakers with similar frequency and performance range of the front speakers. I also figure with the Klipsch, purchasing the eight inch driver models might help make up for any lost bass. So likely looking at the Klipsch RB-81 Reference II Two-Way Bookshelf Speaker. I have no idea what sound differences the earlier Reference 2 have over the Reference 1, but have heard from people within the forums that the Reference 2 are likely still better. The floor standing speakers are likely out of my budget and probably not really needed within a 20x20 room, although the floor standing speaker adds another woofer providing slightly lower frequencies. Equipment: Yamaha RX-V375, 100 watts per 5.1 channel, no effects using vanilla sound. Room: 17x12 manufactured house living room, with a 17x12 dining room on the opposite side of the middle divider. Limited space. Likely four book shelf speakers on shelves mounted on the walls at the appropriate locations would more then suffice for an avid listener of classical music, with the receiver being able to fully duplicate the front quality of the audio streams fully to the rears speakers. Else if a person is only watching TV/movies, these streams are mostly still played at compressed quality levels, instead of the HD or full uncompressed quality -- and personally, I do not notice much difference when watching TV or Movies. THE ONE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION: Why am I missing playback of certain instruments within the orchestra symphony being played back on the Klipsch? Even though, I've always had polymer composite only speakers for my past 40 years here and likely will still buy the Klipsch as I've definitely noticed I've been missing something. I would gander, it maybe just simply providing a pair of polymer composite speakers (ie. Polks) alongside the Klipsch might easily make up the missing frequencies provided by woodwinds! (Remember, please stay on topic for future readers, researching similar topics.) 2014.12.20 20:45 UTC: Updated room size. Corrected name of dining room.
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