edc

Celine Dion, Live in Las Vegas, A New Day, Blu Ray, this concert DVD is a great surround sound demo -- great video and audio

Thanks for the info. I am going to limit my system to 5.1 so I can use the other power amps (6 and 7 outputs) to add another zone or two. Without boring you with diagrams and dimensions, I only have about a 9" vertical wall that surrounds a large inset into the ceiling of my listening area -- placing the speakers on that vertical 9" wall would put them about 7 or 8 feet behind the listening area and over 9' above it. The actual room goes another 20 feet or so and is a dining area with a wall of mostly glass -- no place for speakers and too far I think from where we sit. The only other alternative is ceiling speakers and I don't want to cut big holes in the ceiling. So I looked for Klipsch surround speakers that would fit in this 9" area and the 4 I mentioned are what I found. There are other brands (Polk Audio etc.) that fit but I was trying to stay all Klipsch (not sure why). So it is this form factor I am after more than the cost of the speakers. You guys have me convinced to get a sub-woofer, but the surround speakers will be next. I have read that the location of the sub-woofer is not too important so that should be easier to locate within the room. And, again, I am so pleased with the 3 Forte's up front that if I never added another speaker it would be fine. But it is like an unfinished project so it will become 5.1 soon.

Interesting, but I don't think we have a good place to put another Forte in the room (I am quite sure that is my wife's position). But out of curiosity, how does a center surround fit into the 5.1 model? And wvu80, I also do not have room to use two Forte's for the front center. I am building two equipment cabinets to go between the 3 Forte's in use and that pretty much uses up the width I have for the system. Another interesting idea however, I guess it would like one big 4 ohm speaker??

Hi all. Some time ago I joined your great forum with many questions about how to set up my first surround sound system. I had an Yamaha stereo amp and two Klipsch Forte's (purchased new about 30 yrs ago). I was using your knowledge to figure out how this stuff worked and what speakers were best to go with. After many posts and responses from you I came up with a plan and then due to some forced travel and several delays the implementation was slow but the initial system is operational and exceeds my expectations. One of my primary goals (besides wanting a new larger TV) was to improve the dialogue in TV shows, movies, etc. I am hard of hearing and use hearing aids and it was getting more and more difficult to hear dialogue -- esp the way they mix sound today. So based on a lot of advice from many of you I decided to use my Forte's as LF and RF and I purchased another set of Forte's from craigslist so I could again follow your advice and use a Forte for the Center. (I will probably sell one of the Forte's when I get time, unless I find a way to put two stereo channels into one speaker ) To go with the speakers I purchased a Sony XBR 850B 70" TV and a Sony STR-ZA3000ES amp. So now I finally have an operational system but with only the 3 front speakers at this time. I am blown away by this system, the picture and the sound are excellent, I tried blue ray concerts for the first time and they are spectacular, and again of major importance to me my ability to understand dialogue has improved 100%. I still miss a little now and then but for the most part I can understand it very well. And all of this is without any special settings of the amp -- I just went through the standard setup with the microphone etc. I went from almost no understanding of dialogue to a very acceptable level of understanding. I think maybe by playing with the center speaker level and "small" or "large" settings it may even get better --but it is good enough now that changing these settings is a low priority. We also picked up the ability to stream Amazon Prime free HD movies (via the TV while the sound is sent to the Amp using the audio return channel that is in the HDMI cable that typically sends content from the amp to the TV). One indication of how great this all works is that we have watched more movies in the last couple of weeks than we watched in the last couple of years on our old TV. In summary, thank you all again for your patience and advice, it was spot on. I am going to add some rear surround speakers. I have a large recessed area in the ceiling that goes around the entire listening/viewing area that we use. There is about a 9" vertical wall (the ceiling goes from 9' to 10') that I plan to use to mount the two rear speakers (which will get me to a 5.0 system). I looked at Klipsch offerings that would fit well in this area and came up with the S-10, S-20, KS-14 and RS-41 models. It seems they would all fit and look well in the area I have. Any suggestions on which of these to use with my 3 Forte's (hey guys, I don't have room for more Forte's or I would go that route). At this time I am not thinking of getting a sub-woofer as I seem to get great bass out of the Forte's --- but who knows as the system evolves. So far I love the speakers, the TV, and the amp (and having a Sony TV, Amp, and Blue-Ray has seemed to simplify things a little). Thanks again, Ed

Well I do not know anything about speaker design however after spending some time of this forum I think I should get a book and learn a little, however, I would think a center channel could by design be optimized for voice frequencies via speaker selection, crossover freq, size etc. and not be compromised by trying to achieve the full 20-20KHz audio spectrum. Therefore if most dialogue goes to this voice optimized speaker it should work better. This is my conclusion after talking to many and I think even the opinion of a few on this forum. But, please note, most of you strongly suggested I add another Forte as my center speaker so I am trying that first. I bought two more Forte's but have not picked them up yet. The 70" TV is installed and I love it. The Sony 3000ES amp is still in the box but will be in soon. I am very anxious to get the speakers and hear the results in my living room with my ears (which unfortunately are not as good as my speakers or my amp, probably due to USAF jet engines many moons ago).

Interesting, I was not aware the setup let you define a speaker as small or large. It might be interesting in my setup to see if there is any dialogue difference by setting the center Forte as small vs large. Ed

I now own 4 Forte's (not II's). My room is large and not perfectly rectangular. It is 20+ feet wide and about 37' long including a dining area. On one end next to a fireplace there is about a 9' wall at a slight angle towards the center of the room, we sit 10 to 16 feet from this wall for viewing TV/movies. I will have the speakers on this wall, they will not be in a cabinet. I will have the end speakers about 6' apart on centers, with the center between them. They will be approx. 12" from the wall sitting on the floor. I will build two component cabinets approx. 22" wide to sit between the three speakers. I will experiment with setup and testing in an initial 3.0 configuration. I have never had a surround sound system or amp before so I have a lot to learn with setup and trial and error on the types of decisions you are discussing. These are Klipsch Forte's so they will sound good to great especially when I play my old rock and roll tunes-- question is if I will be able to hear dialogue the way they seem to mix them today. If not I will try a small center with two forte's, if that doesn't work I will assume the issue is my hearing and I will read more. This is going to fun and the stuff starts arriving next week. Thanks again for all of your time and guidance. Hopefully I will soon have a single Forte on the market. Ed

Again, thks to all for your time and guidance. Roger, a couple of questions to make sure I understand what you are advising, first I have made the decision to find another Forte to go with two I have and that will make up my R, ctr, and F speakers. You specifically say Forte II, are the Forte's close enough or is the II that much better. I have plain Forte speakers but I can focus my search on adding two Forte II's if it is that important. Otherwise I will get whatever I can find Forte or Forte II. And I do not understand what you mean about how I am "going to get hat Bass out front on your center channel with all Forte fronts" followed by the comment on using 3 Heresy II's etc. etc. Can you please explain this to me, I thought that the 3 Forte's would provide decent bass and adding the subwoofer would be the next step along with the surrounds if and when I wanted to move on from the 3.0 config. I think I am missing something here. Also if I add surrounds (likely) to the 3 Forte front, it will be something smaller than a Heresy II that I can mount in an approx. 1 foot deep soffit area I have around the ceiling of the room. I haven't even started figuring that out yet. The 70" TV/monitor and the Sony ZA-3000ES amp should be here next week and I can start putting things together while I try to complete the Forte procurement. Thanks again for the help.

Wow guys, lots of good insight, thks. I do not have room for Forte's as rears or rear center speakers. I plan to start with 3.0 and then if I get decent dialogue I will add smaller rears mounted up near the ceiling and a subwoofer somewhere. WVU80 you are making a point similar to what I heard from a non-forum source and that is what motivated me to start this thread and ask about the choice with dialogue as the main criteria. Most of you advise use of a Forte as a center and it some of you have that or something similar so you have heard the results. While it is not impossible to go with the three Forte's and then change later it is a path I hope I don't have to take as I will build a couple of cabinets to go between the three Forte's for amps and equipment. I guess if the dialogue is obviously not improved I can chage paths quickly but from what I am hearing I will likely be very impressed with the three Forte's. An easier path would be to just get an RC-62 center, keep my current cabinet and then if I didn't like the results I could get another Forte later -- but I might always wonder what the 3 Forte's would have provided. Life is tough, but isn't it wonderful we have these kinds of choices to make. Thanks guys, even if the election is not unanimous.

Thanks all. Good suggestion Youthman, I'll look into that. I have found a set of Forte' II's that are a few hours drive from me (northern Calif) and I hope to be able to get to them by this weekend. I probably can't just get one of them but I can always try to sell one later -- there must be someone else doing what I am trying to do . I have found others on ebay but with this size speaker the shipping is an issue (most refuse to ship at all). Now that I have settled on a goal (3 Forte's) I will find one or two soon hopefully.

When looking around for these used speakers I see there are different Heresy models I, II, III. Would some be better than others for matching my Forte's ? So CECAA850 and Sanchez I am reading your responses as first choice would be another Forte (I or II I assume), a close second would be a Heritage -- very similar to the Forte but a little smaller. Both being preferable to the RC-62. Thanks guy for the time, I have little or no experience to make these calls myself. I have a mongrel bookcase speaker I will likely use as a center until I find a Forte or Heresy. Ed

First of all thanks again to all of you as my path into surround sound has been mostly defined by you through posting my threads and reading others. I am still floundering with the speaker selection. I am zeroing in on a newer Sony amp (ZA-3000ES). I have a 70" Sony 4K TV on order. I plan to keep my Forte's as L and R front speakers. I would like some advice (maybe additional advice would be more accurate) on the center channel. I will either use a temporary solution while I find another Forte or Forte II to match the three front speakers perfectly. Another option is to just buy a new RC-62 to use with the two Forte's. After this is decided I will rebuild my cabinetry to suit the speaker decision. I have been told that considering music, and movies, etc. the three Forte's would be a great setup. I have also had some non-forum advice that a newer possibly crisper sound speaker design would be a good center channel to address my desire to improve my ability to understand dialogue better than I do now with just a stereo amp or TV sound system. Most agree that the center channel is probably the most important speaker in the system. So, should I continue my search to find another Forte, or should I use an RC-62 as a center channel -- considering dialogue primarily? Thank You Again, Ed

I have seen this asked a lot on the forum. And I mostly remember the answer being front ported. Any characteristics of each that form the basis of the answer? is it just personal taste from listening to both? What are my Forte's? Sorry for the dumb questions.

Actually I believe the rubber has become brittle from age, I don't think anyone poked a finger through it as it seems to be splitting along a bend in the rubber. Which makes me wonder if I should send them both back for rebuilding (same 30 year old age) -- but that violates the rule of "don't fix it if it isn't broke". And I am still trying to decide if I should use the Forte's or move into the future with a couple of rf-62's and an rc-62 for my new surround sound setup.

Any chance of getting another opinion or two on this decision. I see a certain elegance in moving on to a new design with the RF/RC-62's. But my Forte's have been in the family a long time. I really want to go with whatever you think would be best without being able to listen to them both. Thanks again for the only vote so far K5SS. Ed

Feedback for the forum: I contacted Simply Speakers today and they were very knowledgeable about my issue. I am going to send them the KD-13 from my Forte and they will rebuild it for $50. Both they and a supplier of new passive 12" speakers both thought that staying with the KD-13 was better than replacing the passive speaker with a new part which would not match the KD-13. Thks for the guidance. Ed

Thank You for the opinion K5SS, much appreciated. My room is pretty large while not a perfect rectangle it is about 20' x 37'. all open with one end a dining area and the other a living room area. The screen and speakers will go on one end on a 9' wall slightly angled toward the middle of the room. The seating areas for listening and viewing range from 10' to 16' from this angled wall. The ceiling height is mostly 10'.

Hi Guys, I know I am trying your patience as I learn about and overthink this speaker stuff. I reread all the threads that have any relationship to this including my own. One piece of advice from you that is consistent is that the best path through this forest is to match the L center and R speakers (not the current path I am on). I can do this by: 1) buying two more Forte speakers, I found a nice set on Craigslist about an hour and a half drive from me. I would then have to build a new equipment cabinet (or two to fit between the speakers) I would end up with a perfectly matched set of speakers and a spare Forte to keep or sell. Cost would be 500-600 dollars for used speakers and wood. 2) I could take a simpler path and buy two RF-62's and a RC-62 and have brand new speakers with a form factor that would work well with my existing equipment cabinet. Cost would be 1000-1200 as these models are now being discounted. Could I please ask for a few of you to advise on what would provide the best speaker set for my emerging surround sound system -- I plan to start with a new high quality amp and a 3.0 config --once I understand that I will later add the other speakers. I really have no idea what offers the best potential and I do know that it depends on my ears etc. but I can't try both and your guess is better than mine. My budget is ok with either path. Thank You

thks again guys, I will call simply speakers Monday and if they can fix them I will remove the passive and send it to them -- your message is heard loud and clear. If they cannot do it or do not want to, maybe I can find the same form factor speaker and just mount one there and not hook it up electrically -- kind of a band aid. Hopefully Simply Speakers will resolve the issue.

Thks Mustang Guy, I will call them Monday. I guess if nothing else is possible I could replace that rear passive speaker with a round piece of rubber or something and at least stop the air leak.

As I am currently using this excellent forum to try and figure out how to set up my surround sound system (new ground for me) I made a new discovery and I am sure glad I have you guys to guide me. I was making some measurements and while my Forte's were out from the wall I noticed a problem. One of the speakers had some tears in the rubber of the rear passive speaker. I believe (my understanding might be incorrect as I have listened to these excellent speakers for 30 years but do not know much about them) that the rear speaker is not electrically driven but is driven only by the pressure within the enclosure. There is rubber around the circumference of the speaker and it is torn in several places along the ridge near where the ring is that is screwed down to hold it in place. I think this is likely not good as it is a leak for pressure within the enclosure. I will try to attach a photo of the problem. Ideally I would like to replace this part but maybe they are not available. I might be able to use a silicon adhesive and overlay the split areas to seal the enclosure?? I am hoping some of you will know what should be done. Thank You, Ed

I found a KFS-C5 that I can buy for about $125. and I can buy a new RC-62ii for about $400. Any quick votes on which would work best as the center with my two Klipsch Forte's? I would appreciate the guidance. My budget covers either one (and to tell you the truth I might be too audio-deprived to tell the difference). I am trying to build my first surround sound system and also improve dialogue understandability (if that is a word) in movies and TV shows. Thank You, Ed

First of all thank you Keith, you put a lot of time and thought into your post and I appreciate it. You made some interesting points: 1)maybe I am too optimistic about my new system helping with my dialogue issues--you may be right, I think I have to try it and go from there 2)If I am spending all of this money why not get new matching L and R speakers instead of trying to use my Forte's--- others have thought the Forte's would be great L and R spkrs and I have them and hate to get rid of them, I guess I can try them and if not satisfied I can later replace them with the spkrs that match what I use for a center. However, I am not sure I am sophisticated enough to know if they are good or not, they will probably sound fine to me so maybe all of this speaker concern is wasted on my part. 3) You pointed out some prior model spkrs that I can buy used. Thanks for that. I looked at the one of ebay and it sounds like a good buy. However the speakers you suggested have a slightly less than ideal size (too much height) compared to the new ones I am looking at. This is not a big deal but with my current cabinet and desired TV height on the wall, a lower height on the center speaker (8" or less) is better. I guess I would really like to know what speaker (the rc-62, the new rp440 or rp550, the used models you mentioned) is likely the best to use initially with my Forte's regardless of cost. I do not have a clue how to determine this, so if any of you have a thought on this please comment. Thanks again to all of you for your time. Ed

Dinesh, I have been following your thread and I am also interested in the 7008. I asked about them at Abe's when discussing some TV pricing. They have two prices for the 7008, the 1099. price is for the non-USA version (gray mkt, no warranty), the USA model with warranty is listed on their site as 1599. I think this is an advertised price per Marantz guidance -- although they told me they would discount it to 1399. (USA model). Nothing is simple. Ed

Keith, like most, I don't like spending lots of money. However, I do not upgrade this stuff often (my TV is 10+ yrs old and my stereo amp and Klipsch speakers are about 30 yrs old) so I am not against spending more for a better product. You are correct, I have strolled into this surround sound world to try and get to a point where I can understand dialogue more easily in TV shows and movies. I think (based on this forum and other input) with a good amp and speakers and especially a good center speaker all set up properly I will improve my dialogue issue. However, in doing this I also am trying to get good quality in the rest of the audio and video functionality of my new system. I have had strong advice that my current Forte speakers will make good front R and L speakers. I was also advised that the RC-62 would be a good center spkr (even over the RC-64) to use with my Klipsch. Now some have mentioned the new RP series as a center speaker. I want to now decide between the RC-62 and the RP-450 (or 550?) and buy something. In parallel I am reviewing amp info both on and off this forum. Lots of info, and decisions. I do appreciate everyone's input and suggestions. The forum has been a valued resource for me. Ed