Ivanhoe56

Hi Chris I have the same 2 way Jubilee /Tad 4002 beryllium setup as yourself , and would like to try the K402 horn repositioning that you mentioned at the beginning of this post that gave you such good results . Is there an image of your Jubilee `s with the K402 horn position change you made you can post so I can be sure that I have it right . They say a picture is worth a thousand words .

Would triple stacking ( 3 pairs of ESS AMT ) with wings yield any additional benefits over double stacking , like extending the 450-500 Hz low frequency cut off ?

Great post Chris , very simple but elegantly told story . As a confession I did not realize I had an audio gear addiction problem until I became infected by another addict via Audiophile Osmosis while listening to their audio set-up . Danley Labs SH 50 Speakers 4 ohms First Watt SIT-2 Amplifier 8 watts into 4 ohms Pass Labs XP-30 Pre-amplifier Line level McIntosh MR-71 (Tube) FM-Tuner Vintage ( Restored ) Rel Stadium III Sub woofers ( Pair ) 1 per channel APL NWO-Master Universal Transport/DAC ( Esoteric UX-1Pi ) CD Transport and outboard Tube DAC 

I have used only single ended tube electronics ( 300B , VT-52 , 2A3 ) for the last 35-40 years , and most of those years those tube electronics were driving a pair of Klipsch La Scala`s . I also had some Lowther horn loaded speakers ( PM2A drivers in Medallion II cabinets ) , and klipschorns briefly ( I used them in there original state , and later with the Klipsch K-402 horns ) . From my experience using various flea powered tube amps , with high efficiency horn speakers like Klipsch La Scala`s ( 104 db sensitivity ) , 3 watts of single ended tube power from a 2A3 tube amp. sounds like 100 watts . I purchased my First Watt SIT-2 new from an authorized Pass Labs / First Watt dealer in Toronto . Before I purchased it I went to listen to the First Watt SIT-2 four times , the listening room was 3-4 times the size of my 13x12x8 listening room , the speakers were some non horn $11,000.00 93db sensitive speakers that had there own self powered sub-woofers built in . I listened to the First Watt SIT-2 amp as loud as I wanted , there was no shortage of power . With the more efficient 100db sensitive Danley Labs SH 50 I can confidently say that even in a room 4 times the size of my current listening room the 8 watt First Watt SIT-2 has way more power then I will ever use . The third time I was at the store to audition the First Watt SIT-2 I also listened to the latest Pass Labs XA60.8 amp for fun and as a comparison , it was a much more expensive amp ( Approximately twice as much ) , the bottom end was a little better , but the mid-range , and lower mid-range was missing all the subtle and fine detail , and micro dynamic information that I heard with the First Watt SIT-2 , it was just absent like it was not in the recording , but it was there again when I went back to hear the First Watt SIT-2 the 4th and last time . In my opinion the First Watt SIT-2 was a way better sounding amp , and that there was no comparison between the two . After hearing both amps I had absolutely no interest in the more powerful and twice as expensive Pass Labs XA60.8 even though I had the extra money to buy the Pass Labs XA60.8 if I thought it was a better sounding amp , and I wanted it for some reason . To be fair , by todays standards the Pass Labs XA60.8 is a very good sounding conservitivly rated 60 watt amp that runs in Class A , but the First Watt SIT-2 is a very fine and sensational sounding amp if you have the right speakers with at least 93db sensitivity or higher . The First Watt SIT-2 is the finest amp I have ever heard , tube or solid state . Danley Sound Labs SH 50 Speakers 4 ohms First Watt SIT-2 Amplifier 8 watts into 4 ohms ( Discontinued Sept/2017 ) Pass Labs XP-30 Pre-amplifier Line level McIntosh MR-71 (Tube) FM-Tuner Vintage ( Restored ) Rel Stadium III Sub woofers ( Pair ) 1 per channel APL NWO-Master Universal Transport/DAC ( Esoteric UX-1Pi ) CD Transport and outboard Tube DAC

Here are some pictures of the Danley/First Watt set-up , I am sorry for the delay . Danley Sound Labs SH 50 Speakers 4 ohms First Watt SIT-2 Amplifier 8 watts into 4 ohms ( Discontinued Sept/2017 ) Pass Labs XP-30 Pre-amplifier Line level McIntosh MR-71 (Tube) FM-Tuner Vintage ( Restored ) Rel Stadium III Sub woofers ( Pair ) 1 per channel APL NWO-Master Universal Transport/DAC ( Esoteric UX-1Pi ) CD Transport and outboard Tube DAC

I currently have a camera problem , but will work on getting it sorted out over the next few days , I will try and post some Danley system pictures then . I have the Danley Sound Labs SH 50`s sitting on top of my Rel Stadium III subwoofers which puts the twitters of the Danley Sound Labs SH 50`s at ear level which I think is optimal . Danley Sound Labs SH 50 Speakers 4 ohms First Watt SIT-2 Amplifier 8 watts into 4 ohms Pass Labs XP-30 Pre-amplifier Line level McIntosh MR-71 (Tube) FM-Tuner Vintage ( Restored ) Rel Stadium III Sub woofers ( Pair ) 1 per channel APL NWO-Master Universal Transport/DAC ( Esoteric UX-1Pi ) CD Transport and outboard Tube DAC

The Danley Sound Labs SH 50 have 100 db sensitivity , the Klipschorn 104 db and La Scala `s 104 db , my Pass Labs XP-30 preamp has a volume digital display read out of 0-100 , with the First Watt SIT-2 I do most of my listening between 60-73 on the Pass Labs XP-30 digital display depending on the recording , and I like to listen at louder levels then most people . The First Watt SIT-2 8 watts are a very powerful 8 watts with exceptionally controlled low frequencies , provided it is used with the right kind of high sensitivity speakers , like horns ( I also have 1/ 200 watt self-powered Rel Stadium III subwoofer per channel , but they get there signal from the First Watt SIT-2 ) , I feel that I have more then enough power for the Danley Sound Labs SH 50`s with the First Watt SIT-2 ( My current listening room is 12 feet x 13 feet ) . The Danley Sound Labs SH 50`s were designed to be used for commercial applications like stadiums , churches , live concerts ( Which is why they are made to have a 1000 watt power rating ) , and not the home audiophile market , but that does not mean that you cannot use them that way . They are not mainstream home audiophile speakers , most audiophiles have never heard of Danley Sound Labs , they are unique , unorthodox , and advanced new technology that you can only currently get from Danley Sound Labs . I am more satisfied with my new audio set-up then I have ever been before in my audio hobby , and I am a very tough critique . According to the Danley Sound Labs , and First Watt manufacturers websites , the rated impedance of the Danley SH 50`s is 4 Ohms , and the output impedance of the First Watt SIT-2 amplifier is 4 Ohms ( No impedance mismatch ) , the impedance match might be one of the reasons that explain why to my ears they seem to work so well together . Danley Sound Labs SH 50 Speakers 4 ohms First Watt SIT-2 Amplifier 8 watts into 4 ohms ( Discontinued Sept/2017 ) Pass Labs XP-30 Pre-amplifier Line level McIntosh MR-71 (Tube) FM-Tuner Vintage ( Restored ) Rel Stadium III Sub woofers ( Pair ) 1 per channel APL NWO-Master Universal Transport/DAC ( Esoteric UX-1Pi ) CD Transport and outboard Tube DAC

Hi Schu I only had the Klipschorns for about a year , I was using them in a room that was to small for them ( 12 feet x 13 feet ) , through good fortune about 6 months after purchasing the Klipschorns I was able to purchase a pair of Klipsch K-402 horns with the K1133 drivers from a member on the Klipsch Forum ( I live in Toronto , Ontario , Canada ) , and then I was also able to purchase a pair of B&C DE 250-8 twetters and horns plus the home made custom passive crossover that was made for them from another member of the Klipsch forum , that he used with those same B&C twetters and his K-402 horns and k1133 drivers when he owned them . I was anxious to hear what the K-402/K1133 midrange and B&C DE 250-8 twitters sounded like , so as an experiment I disconnected , and removed the midrange/twetter section top-hat from the top of the Klipschorn bass bins and connected the K-402/K1133 midrange and B&C DE 250-8 twitters to the Klipschorn bass bins using the existing passive crossovers in the bass bins for the low frequencies , and the other passive crossover for the K-402/K1133 midrange B&C DE 250-8 twitters . I placed the K-402/K1133 midrange B&C DE 250-8 twitter on front of the Klipschorn bass bins and on top of the the 2 Rel Stadium III Subwoofers using them as stands which put the K-402 horn driver right at ear level . It was a makeshift experiment using what I had on hand , the midrange sounded a little hot compared to the bass bins , but I got to hear the K-402/K1133 midrange , which was revealing enough that I decided that I was more interested in the potential of the K-402 horn midrange then the Klipschorn midrange , and that the K-402 horns were keepers , so I made the decision to sell the Klipschorns on that experiment . I am not as technically minded as some members of the forum , and do not have any experience with active crossovers yet . Danley Sound Labs SH 50 Speakers 4 ohms First Watt SIT-2 Amplifier 8 watts into 4 ohms ( Discontinued Sept/2017 ) Pass Labs XP-30 Pre-amplifier Line level McIntosh MR-71 (Tube) FM-Tuner Vintage ( Restored ) Rel Stadium III Sub woofers ( Pair ) 1 per channel APL NWO-Master Universal Transport/DAC ( Esoteric UX-1Pi ) CD Transport and outboard Tube DAC

I began putting a new High-End system together about 6 months ago , it is now complete and pretty much optimal with everything broken in . I went with the First Watt SIT-2 amp because I thought that either the SIT-1 or SIT-2 would be my idea of the best possible match up with the Danley Sound Labs SH 50`s for in home use ( Not for Stadium or Concert hall use ) , I have used only Single ended tube electronics ( 300B , VT-52 , 2A3 ) for the last 35-40 years , and most of those years those tube electronics were driving a pair of Klipsch La Scala`s . I also had some Lowther horn speakers ( Hated them ) , and klipschorns briefly ( I used them in there original state , and later with the Klipsch K-402 horns ) . One of the reasons I wanted to make this post is because I am happier and more satisfied with my audio set up then I have ever been before in the many years of my audio hobby . I can`t say enough about how much of an amazing amplifier the First Watt SIT-2 is , and how amazing the Danley Sound Labs SH50 speakers are and the synergy between the two . My new audio set-up has exceeded my expectations . I have included the details of my new audio set-up below . My main area of interest in the audio hobby is the minimalist philosophy with high sensitivity speakers ( Horns ) and low powered amplifiers ( Low powered , smallest , and simplest designs possible are the best sounding amplifiers ) . I believe that the First Watt SIT-2 would sound amazing with any of the Klipsch ( Heritage horn ) speakers . I am planning on putting together a 2nd stereo system in my basement with Klipsch K-402 horns and the ClaudeJ1 Quarter Pie bass bins for the lower frequencies in either a 2 way or 3 way set-up and maybe using it for analog with a turntable . I have included all the equipment I am using in the new system below . Danley Sound Labs SH 50 Speakers 4 ohms First Watt SIT-2 Amplifier 8 watts into 4 ohms ( Discontinued Sept/2017 ) Pass Labs XP-30 Pre-amplifier Line level McIntosh MR-71 (Tube) FM-Tuner Vintage ( Restored ) Rel Stadium III Sub woofers ( Pair ) 1 per channel APL NWO-Master Universal Transport/DAC ( Esoteric UX-1Pi ) CD Transport and outboard Tube DAC

Thanks for all the great advice ! I will go with the Cinema F20 , what would be the best plate amp , and driver to use with the Cinema F20 subs ? Also could someone direct me to some links to some detailed plans , and build in progress pictures in addition to what I have been given so far , the more I have avaiable to cross reference the better , I have never built one of these before . Thank you Turbox for the invitation , yes I would be interested in taking you up on your offer , I will PM you .

I think I should mention that the main reason I am planning this project is because I read on one of the Klipsch Forums that the La Scalas can outperform the Klipschorns if they have a good subwoofer , because I have both Klipschorns and La Scalas , and if that is the case I would like to put it to the test , max the La Scalas out and make them sound as good as possible . I know that the La scalas roll off at around 100Hz and not all subwoofers will go up that high . Which sounds better the Tuba sub or Cinema F20 , If worse came to worse I could stand the subs upright against each wall ( I would make 2 subs ) . I am not afraid of a more difficult build if it will me that it will sound better in the system .

Thanks CECAA850 for the link to your building of the Cinema f20 , that is very helpful . Do you think that I could stack the La Scalas on top of the Cinema f20`s the same way , or do you think the tweeter and midrange horn would be to high up . I know from reading a lot of the Klipsch forum threads that a lot of members use equalizers , active cross-overs and bi-amping , and tri-amping , that is not something that I currently do , all of my cross overs are passive . This might sound like a dumb question , but will it be possible for me to integrate this sub into my system without using an equalizer , my philosophy preference is to keep things in my 2 channel stereo music set up as simple as possible , like my minimalist single ended tube amplifiers . I guess I would need to get something called a plate amp . I like Human Horn Driver`s set up , what do you use for amplification and interfacing , do you ever use that set up for 2 channel stereo ( Like a turntable ) and listening to music rather then home theater , I am sure that it must sound awesome with home theater , but how does it sound with music ?

I live in Toronto , Ontario , Canada , I have a dedicated listening room for music only ( 13 x 13 feet approx. ) , I have a single ended VT 52 ( Special 45 ) tube amp ( 2-3 watts ) for amplification and an excellent tube pre-amp , I will be getting some new 300b mono block tube amps ( 7-8 watts ) in about a week . I listen to mostly classical music ( Symphony and opera ) New Age music like Andreas Vollenweide , Enya , Loreena McKennitt ,and some popular nostalgia from the 70`s & 80`s , I am 58 years old . I am no afraid of DIY , in fact I would welcome it as a means of cutting costs , I have lots of power tools . I am not afraid of big , if it means that I can have a maxed out system that I will be satisfied with . tromprof is the Cinema 20 what you have at the very bottom of your stack of horns in your picture ?

I have a beautiful pair 1981 raw unfinished birch La Scalas , I want to start using them again to listen to 2 channel stereo music again after giving them a couple of years rest . I would like to mate them to the best horn sub woofer available , I have read a lot of threads on the Klipsch forums about La Scalas and sub woofer recommendations for home theater use but not exclusively for music , I am not that knowledgeable on the new horn sub woofers available for music only , and therefore require some advise . Please remember my application is for 2 channel stereo music only ( Turntable , FM tuner , CD player ) . I have a Totem Mani-2 system I use for home theater , and a pair of 1991 Klipschorns as a 2nd pair of Klipsch speakers . I know that some horn subs are more suited to home theater then 2 channel stereo music. Thanks