Ivanhoe56
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Posts posted by Ivanhoe56
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Would triple stacking ( 3 pairs of ESS AMT ) with wings yield any additional benefits over double stacking , like extending the 450-500 Hz low frequency cut off ?
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18 hours ago, Chris A said:
My first bed out of college was made up of eight tea crates (free for the asking from Lipton company at the Galveston docks) with a pad of foam rubber on top...for 5 years.
In that time, I owned DIY 3-way acoustic suspension loudspeakers, and later gave them to a friend when I bought a pair of AR90s a year or so later with Pioneer receiver and direct drive TT with Shure V15 Type III cartridge. About 2 years later I sprang for a pair of Magnepan MG-IIIAs with Carver C-2 preamp and M1.5t amplifier. I was also a cat sailor/racer (NACRA 5.2, NACRA 5.5 18^2 metre, windsurfer) during that time and raced year 'round on the weekends on cats, then big boats (J24, 10-metre racing monohulls) on Galveston bay. I basically lived like a beach bum in Galveston (later Alvin, home of Nolan Ryan)--but with a very good sound system.
I only accepted a donated bed from friends later--when they showed up at my door with a spare one that they had, thus having pity on my poor audiophile living state. It was like a page of my life turned when I laid down on the new bed that evening. I must've shed a little tear--knowing that life was going to change--forever. (I later married the girl that brought the bed.) That was 35 1/2 years ago. She's still here. Later, when our kids were almost out the door (i.e., graduated and with good jobs), I bought Jubilees. The rest you already know.
The Magnepans are still in a box in the garage and the NACRA 5.5 is disassembled in the back yard (not having seen the water since I got married).
I guess that I hang on the image of being an audiophile beach bum.
Chris
Great post Chris , very simple but elegantly told story . As a confession I did not realize I had an audio gear addiction problem until I became infected by another addict via Audiophile Osmosis while listening to their audio set-up .
Danley Labs SH 50 Speakers 4 ohms
First Watt SIT-2 Amplifier 8 watts into 4 ohms
Pass Labs XP-30 Pre-amplifier Line level
McIntosh MR-71 (Tube) FM-Tuner Vintage ( Restored )
Rel Stadium III Sub woofers ( Pair ) 1 per channel
APL NWO-Master Universal Transport/DAC ( Esoteric UX-1Pi ) CD Transport and outboard Tube DAC
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I have used only single ended tube electronics ( 300B , VT-52 , 2A3 ) for the last 35-40 years , and most of those years those tube electronics were driving a pair of Klipsch La Scala`s . I also had some Lowther horn loaded speakers ( PM2A drivers in Medallion II cabinets ) , and klipschorns briefly ( I used them in there original state , and later with the Klipsch K-402 horns ) . From my experience using various flea powered tube amps , with high efficiency horn speakers like Klipsch La Scala`s ( 104 db sensitivity ) , 3 watts of single ended tube power from a 2A3 tube amp. sounds like 100 watts . I purchased my First Watt SIT-2 new from an authorized Pass Labs / First Watt dealer in Toronto . Before I purchased it I went to listen to the First Watt SIT-2 four times , the listening room was 3-4 times the size of my 13x12x8 listening room , the speakers were some non horn $11,000.00 93db sensitive speakers that had there own self powered sub-woofers built in . I listened to the First Watt SIT-2 amp as loud as I wanted , there was no shortage of power . With the more efficient 100db sensitive Danley Labs SH 50 I can confidently say that even in a room 4 times the size of my current listening room the 8 watt First Watt SIT-2 has way more power then I will ever use . The third time I was at the store to audition the First Watt SIT-2 I also listened to the latest Pass Labs XA60.8 amp for fun and as a comparison , it was a much more expensive amp ( Approximately twice as much ) , the bottom end was a little better , but the mid-range , and lower mid-range was missing all the subtle and fine detail , and micro dynamic information that I heard with the First Watt SIT-2 , it was just absent like it was not in the recording , but it was there again when I went back to hear the First Watt SIT-2 the 4th and last time . In my opinion the First Watt SIT-2 was a way better sounding amp , and that there was no comparison between the two . After hearing both amps I had absolutely no interest in the more powerful and twice as expensive Pass Labs XA60.8 even though I had the extra money to buy the Pass Labs XA60.8 if I thought it was a better sounding amp , and I wanted it for some reason . To be fair , by todays standards the Pass Labs XA60.8 is a very good sounding conservitivly rated 60 watt amp that runs in Class A , but the First Watt SIT-2 is a very fine and sensational sounding amp if you have the right speakers with at least 93db sensitivity or higher . The First Watt SIT-2 is the finest amp I have ever heard , tube or solid state .
Danley Sound Labs SH 50 Speakers 4 ohms
First Watt SIT-2 Amplifier 8 watts into 4 ohms ( Discontinued Sept/2017 )
Pass Labs XP-30 Pre-amplifier Line level
McIntosh MR-71 (Tube) FM-Tuner Vintage ( Restored )
Rel Stadium III Sub woofers ( Pair ) 1 per channel
APL NWO-Master Universal Transport/DAC ( Esoteric UX-1Pi ) CD Transport and outboard Tube DAC
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On 6/7/2018 at 12:53 PM, Shiva said:
I think a couple of pics of the Danley system would be nice.. Do you have them stand mounted? A speaker I would like to hear one day.
Here are some pictures of the Danley/First Watt set-up , I am sorry for the delay .
Danley Sound Labs SH 50 Speakers 4 ohms
First Watt SIT-2 Amplifier 8 watts into 4 ohms ( Discontinued Sept/2017 )
Pass Labs XP-30 Pre-amplifier Line level
McIntosh MR-71 (Tube) FM-Tuner Vintage ( Restored )
Rel Stadium III Sub woofers ( Pair ) 1 per channel
APL NWO-Master Universal Transport/DAC ( Esoteric UX-1Pi ) CD Transport and outboard Tube DAC
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On 6/7/2018 at 12:53 PM, Shiva said:
I think a couple of pics of the Danley system would be nice.. Do you have them stand mounted? A speaker I would like to hear one day.
I currently have a camera problem , but will work on getting it sorted out over the next few days , I will try and post some Danley system pictures then . I have the Danley Sound Labs SH 50`s sitting on top of my Rel Stadium III subwoofers which puts the twitters of the Danley Sound Labs SH 50`s at ear level which I think is optimal .
Danley Sound Labs SH 50 Speakers 4 ohms
First Watt SIT-2 Amplifier 8 watts into 4 ohms
Pass Labs XP-30 Pre-amplifier Line level
McIntosh MR-71 (Tube) FM-Tuner Vintage ( Restored )
Rel Stadium III Sub woofers ( Pair ) 1 per channel
APL NWO-Master Universal Transport/DAC ( Esoteric UX-1Pi ) CD Transport and outboard Tube DAC
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On 6/7/2018 at 1:56 PM, Delicious2 said:
I mostly lurk around the forums but had to respond to this. You and I are on very similar paths and interests! I have a SIT2 driving my modded Khorns in 2.1 living room system (14'x24'x8'). Before the SIT2 I used Welborne Labs Laurel II 300b monoblocks and VTL Tiny Triode SE PP monoblocks. I'm shopping for replacement processor, amps, speakers in my basement HT (13x25x7) and am very interested in high efficiency horn designs such as the Danleys, JBL M2, 4722s and 4367s. The best thing about the HT audio now is the Danley DTS10 sub 🎼. I just requested an SH50 demo on the Danley site. Say more about the simpatico between SH50s and the SIT2. 8 watts wouldn't immediately be my idea of the best match for a speaker that can handle 1000.
(edit: the K-402 horn is very much in the running too as Jubilees or some Multi-Entry-Horn variant like Chris does - I have yet to hear any form of this coveted horn)
The Danley Sound Labs SH 50 have 100 db sensitivity , the Klipschorn 104 db and La Scala `s 104 db , my Pass Labs XP-30 preamp has a volume digital display read out of 0-100 , with the First Watt SIT-2 I do most of my listening between 60-73 on the Pass Labs XP-30 digital display depending on the recording , and I like to listen at louder levels then most people . The First Watt SIT-2 8 watts are a very powerful 8 watts with exceptionally controlled low frequencies , provided it is used with the right kind of high sensitivity speakers , like horns ( I also have 1/ 200 watt self-powered Rel Stadium III subwoofer per channel , but they get there signal from the First Watt SIT-2 ) , I feel that I have more then enough power for the Danley Sound Labs SH 50`s with the First Watt SIT-2 ( My current listening room is 12 feet x 13 feet ) . The Danley Sound Labs SH 50`s were designed to be used for commercial applications like stadiums , churches , live concerts ( Which is why they are made to have a 1000 watt power rating ) , and not the home audiophile market , but that does not mean that you cannot use them that way . They are not mainstream home audiophile speakers , most audiophiles have never heard of Danley Sound Labs , they are unique , unorthodox , and advanced new technology that you can only currently get from Danley Sound Labs . I am more satisfied with my new audio set-up then I have ever been before in my audio hobby , and I am a very tough critique . According to the Danley Sound Labs , and First Watt manufacturers websites , the rated impedance of the Danley SH 50`s is 4 Ohms , and the output impedance of the First Watt SIT-2 amplifier is 4 Ohms ( No impedance mismatch ) , the impedance match might be one of the reasons that explain why to my ears they seem to work so well together .
Danley Sound Labs SH 50 Speakers 4 ohms
First Watt SIT-2 Amplifier 8 watts into 4 ohms ( Discontinued Sept/2017 )
Pass Labs XP-30 Pre-amplifier Line level
McIntosh MR-71 (Tube) FM-Tuner Vintage ( Restored )
Rel Stadium III Sub woofers ( Pair ) 1 per channel
APL NWO-Master Universal Transport/DAC ( Esoteric UX-1Pi ) CD Transport and outboard Tube DAC
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On 6/6/2018 at 3:22 PM, Schu said:
You had 402's with a Klipschorn bass bin?
How did you handle timing and what did you use for setting the crossover point?
Hi Schu
I only had the Klipschorns for about a year , I was using them in a room that was to small for them ( 12 feet x 13 feet ) , through good fortune about 6 months after purchasing the Klipschorns I was able to purchase a pair of Klipsch K-402 horns with the K1133 drivers from a member on the Klipsch Forum ( I live in Toronto , Ontario , Canada ) , and then I was also able to purchase a pair of B&C DE 250-8 twetters and horns plus the home made custom passive crossover that was made for them from another member of the Klipsch forum , that he used with those same B&C twetters and his K-402 horns and k1133 drivers when he owned them . I was anxious to hear what the K-402/K1133 midrange and B&C DE 250-8 twitters sounded like , so as an experiment I disconnected , and removed the midrange/twetter section top-hat from the top of the Klipschorn bass bins and connected the K-402/K1133 midrange and B&C DE 250-8 twitters to the Klipschorn bass bins using the existing passive crossovers in the bass bins for the low frequencies , and the other passive crossover for the K-402/K1133 midrange B&C DE 250-8 twitters . I placed the K-402/K1133 midrange B&C DE 250-8 twitter on front of the Klipschorn bass bins and on top of the the 2 Rel Stadium III Subwoofers using them as stands which put the K-402 horn driver right at ear level . It was a makeshift experiment using what I had on hand , the midrange sounded a little hot compared to the bass bins , but I got to hear the K-402/K1133 midrange , which was revealing enough that I decided that I was more interested in the potential of the K-402 horn midrange then the Klipschorn midrange , and that the K-402 horns were keepers , so I made the decision to sell the Klipschorns on that experiment . I am not as technically minded as some members of the forum , and do not have any experience with active crossovers yet .
Danley Sound Labs SH 50 Speakers 4 ohms
First Watt SIT-2 Amplifier 8 watts into 4 ohms ( Discontinued Sept/2017 )
Pass Labs XP-30 Pre-amplifier Line level
McIntosh MR-71 (Tube) FM-Tuner Vintage ( Restored )
Rel Stadium III Sub woofers ( Pair ) 1 per channel
APL NWO-Master Universal Transport/DAC ( Esoteric UX-1Pi ) CD Transport and outboard Tube DAC
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I began putting a new High-End system together about 6 months ago , it is now complete and pretty much optimal with everything broken in . I went with the First Watt SIT-2 amp because I thought that either the SIT-1 or SIT-2 would be my idea of the best possible match up with the Danley Sound Labs SH 50`s for in home use ( Not for Stadium or Concert hall use ) , I have used only Single ended tube electronics ( 300B , VT-52 , 2A3 ) for the last 35-40 years , and most of those years those tube electronics were driving a pair of Klipsch La Scala`s . I also had some Lowther horn speakers ( Hated them ) , and klipschorns briefly ( I used them in there original state , and later with the Klipsch K-402 horns ) . One of the reasons I wanted to make this post is because I am happier and more satisfied with my audio set up then I have ever been before in the many years of my audio hobby . I can`t say enough about how much of an amazing amplifier the First Watt SIT-2 is , and how amazing the Danley Sound Labs SH50 speakers are and the synergy between the two . My new audio set-up has exceeded my expectations . I have included the details of my new audio set-up below . My main area of interest in the audio hobby is the minimalist philosophy with high sensitivity speakers ( Horns ) and low powered amplifiers ( Low powered , smallest , and simplest designs possible are the best sounding amplifiers ) . I believe that the First Watt SIT-2 would sound amazing with any of the Klipsch ( Heritage horn ) speakers . I am planning on putting together a 2nd stereo system in my basement with Klipsch K-402 horns and the ClaudeJ1 Quarter Pie bass bins for the lower frequencies in either a 2 way or 3 way set-up and maybe using it for analog with a turntable . I have included all the equipment I am using in the new system below .
Danley Sound Labs SH 50 Speakers 4 ohms
First Watt SIT-2 Amplifier 8 watts into 4 ohms ( Discontinued Sept/2017 )
Pass Labs XP-30 Pre-amplifier Line level
McIntosh MR-71 (Tube) FM-Tuner Vintage ( Restored )
Rel Stadium III Sub woofers ( Pair ) 1 per channel
APL NWO-Master Universal Transport/DAC ( Esoteric UX-1Pi ) CD Transport and outboard Tube DAC
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Thanks for all the great advice ! I will go with the Cinema F20 , what would be the best plate amp , and driver to use with the Cinema F20 subs ? Also could someone direct me to some links to some detailed plans , and build in progress pictures in addition to what I have been given so far , the more I have avaiable to cross reference the better , I have never built one of these before . Thank you Turbox for the invitation , yes I would be interested in taking you up on your offer , I will PM you .
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I think I should mention that the main reason I am planning this project is because I read on one of the Klipsch Forums that the La Scalas can outperform the Klipschorns if they have a good subwoofer , because I have both Klipschorns and La Scalas , and if that is the case I would like to put it to the test , max the La Scalas out and make them sound as good as possible . I know that the La scalas roll off at around 100Hz and not all subwoofers will go up that high . Which sounds better the Tuba sub or Cinema F20 , If worse came to worse I could stand the subs upright against each wall ( I would make 2 subs ) . I am not afraid of a more difficult build if it will me that it will sound better in the system .
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Thanks CECAA850 for the link to your building of the Cinema f20 , that is very helpful . Do you think that I could stack the La Scalas on top of the Cinema f20`s the same way , or do you think the tweeter and midrange horn would be to high up . I know from reading a lot of the Klipsch forum threads that a lot of members use equalizers , active cross-overs and bi-amping , and tri-amping , that is not something that I currently do , all of my cross overs are passive . This might sound like a dumb question , but will it be possible for me to integrate this sub into my system without using an equalizer , my philosophy preference is to keep things in my 2 channel stereo music set up as simple as possible , like my minimalist single ended tube amplifiers . I guess I would need to get something called a plate amp . I like Human Horn Driver`s set up , what do you use for amplification and interfacing , do you ever use that set up for 2 channel stereo ( Like a turntable ) and listening to music rather then home theater , I am sure that it must sound awesome with home theater , but how does it sound with music ?
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I live in Toronto , Ontario , Canada , I have a dedicated listening room for music only ( 13 x 13 feet approx. ) , I have a single ended VT 52 ( Special 45 ) tube amp ( 2-3 watts ) for amplification and an excellent tube pre-amp , I will be getting some new 300b mono block tube amps ( 7-8 watts ) in about a week . I listen to mostly classical music ( Symphony and opera ) New Age music like Andreas Vollenweide , Enya , Loreena McKennitt ,and some popular nostalgia from the 70`s & 80`s , I am 58 years old . I am no afraid of DIY , in fact I would welcome it as a means of cutting costs , I have lots of power tools . I am not afraid of big , if it means that I can have a maxed out system that I will be satisfied with . tromprof is the Cinema 20 what you have at the very bottom of your stack of horns in your picture ?
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I have a beautiful pair 1981 raw unfinished birch La Scalas , I want to start using them again to listen to 2 channel stereo music again after giving them a couple of years rest . I would like to mate them to the best horn sub woofer available , I have read a lot of threads on the Klipsch forums about La Scalas and sub woofer recommendations for home theater use but not exclusively for music , I am not that knowledgeable on the new horn sub woofers available for music only , and therefore require some advise . Please remember my application is for 2 channel stereo music only ( Turntable , FM tuner , CD player ) . I have a Totem Mani-2 system I use for home theater , and a pair of 1991 Klipschorns as a 2nd pair of Klipsch speakers . I know that some horn subs are more suited to home theater then 2 channel stereo music.
Thanks
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Subconscious Auditory Effects of Quasi-Linear Phase Loudspeakers
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
Hi Chris
I have the same 2 way Jubilee /Tad 4002 beryllium setup as yourself , and would like to try the K402 horn repositioning that you mentioned at the beginning of this post that gave you such good results . Is there an image of your Jubilee `s with the K402 horn position change you made you can post so I can be sure that I have it right . They say a picture is worth a thousand words .