robert_kc

If anyone wants examples of modern music performances (last dozen years or so) that were captured and mastered in hi-res surround-sound and delivered via Blu-ray's DTS-HD MA 5.0 (or 5.1) audio track, please see my posts here: As I said earlier, the relevance of Blu-ray and SACD depends on genre of music. For the classical music I love, there are many modern music performances that were captured and mastered in hi-res surround-sound and delivered via Blu-ray's DTS-HD MA 5.0 (or 5.1) audio track, or SACD. IMO such modern hi-res surround-sound recordings deliver audio quality that exceeds any CD or streaming service I've heard. For those touting streaming, I'd be interested in learning about a service provider who streams the classical recordings listed in my post linked above, with no compromise in the quality of the DTS-HD MA 5.1 audio or high-definition video.

Several manufacturers offer 2.1 HDMI receivers (e.g., Marantz, Onkyo, Denon), so maybe some manufacturer will see the market potential of a 3.1 HDMI receiver. I think that a 3.1 HDMI receiver would make sense for a lot of people – however, I’m not sure how difficult it would be to downmix 5.1 to 3.1 in the receiver. In the meantime, I’m aware of a few options. A quick google search found several 3-channel power amps. (I have no experience with any of these.) Anthem MCA 325 Gen 2 Emotiva XPA-3 Gen3, XPA-DR3 McIntosh MC303 Parasound A31 Et al. The Oppo UDP-205, BDP-105, and BDP-95 that I own have variable output (i.e., volume button on remote control) and 7.1 analog audio outputs. One of my systems is a 3.1 system that I use for multi-channel classical recordings (i.e., SACD and Blu-ray). IME, there is little content in the rear channels of classical music (mostly audience applause), so not much is lost by forgoing the rear channels. (Hollywood movies would be a different case.) On occasion I directly drive power amps from my Oppo units. (The Oppo’s set-up allows you to adjust the relative volume level of each channel.) The only downside to directly driving power amps from an Oppo is the lack of tone controls. (BTW, the newer Oppos have a parameter that can activate DTS Neo:6 pseudo-surround sound for stereo recordings, but I don’t use it.) Or, you could use a multi-channel pre-processor to drive a 3-channel power amp. I have no experience with multi-channel pre-processors. I don’t know if a pre-pro can mix a 5.1 audio track down to 3.1, so that the rear channel content isn’t lost. If not, you could just forgo the rear content. Reportedly you could drive a 3-channel amp from pre-amp (i.e., line-level) audio outputs from some AVRs. I have no experience with this configuration. FWIW, two of my hi-fi systems are 4.1, and one system is 4.2. I combine the Oppo’s surround-left and surround-right analog RCA connections via a Y-cable. (Oppo confirmed that this use of a Y-cable is OK.) One vintage stereo tube amp plays the main L&R channels. A second vintage stereo tube amp plays the center-channel and single rear-channel. The powered subwoofer(s) connect to the Oppo, and Oppo’s bass management (e.g., configurable crossover) is employed. I’m very satisfied with this configuration. Multi-channel classical recordings sound great, and Hollywood movies sound great. (And, of course these systems can play CDs in addition to Blu-ray, Pure Audio Blu-ray, SACD, and hi-res downloads.) I imagine that many AK’ers own more than one amp and pair of speakers, and therefore could experiment with 3.0, 3.1, 4.0 or 4.1 surround-sound fairly easily. This would require SACDs or Blu-rays featuring 5.1, and a multi-channel pre-processor or a universal player with multi-channel analog outputs such as one of numerous Oppo models, or the currently manufactured Reavon UBR-X200 (which appears to be based on the Oppo UDP-205, but different DACs, and fewer connections). If someone wants to play multi-channel SACDs and DVDs, but doesn’t care about Blu-ray, an Oppo DV-980H (SACD/CD/DVD) can be bought used fairly cheap. For Blu-ray, a newer Oppo model would be needed. For Ultra HD Blu-ray, the Oppo UDP-205 (I own 2), and Reavon UBR-X200 are two universal players that I know about that feature 7.1 analog audio outputs and remote volume control.

There are countless modern recordings (i.e., performed/recorded in the last dozen years or so) of classical compositions that were recorded and mastered in modern “hi-res” multi-channel formats, and delivered on multi-channel Blu-ray or SACD. For classical music, 3.1, 4.1, 4.2, 5.1, and 5.2 hi-fi configurations are relevant. (For classical music, the rear channels contain mostly audience applause, so eliminating them has no material impact on the music. IOW, 3.1 works well for classical music.) OTOH, if you listen only to vintage recordings, YMMV. If you only listen to music that was recorded several decades ago, you are stuck with decades-old technology, and stereo (vs. multi-channel) might be as good as it gets. IMO, equating music with stereo (i.e., 2 channel vs. multi-channel) represents being stuck in a decades-old perspective of technology (e.g., the 40-year-old-CD format, or the older-still LP). As I said in an earlier post, IME/IMO hi-res multi-channel (e.g., Blu-ray’s DTS-HD MA 5.1) is superior to stereo for the large-scale classical music that I love. Depending on music genre, YMMV …

I agree that identical L, C, R is ideal, so that all 3 speakers across the front have same the same tonal balance, and the center isn't drawing attention to itself. If you can't accommodate another Heresy IV, then consider an RC-64III. (I own two.) I suggest that you contact Cory Harrison at Metropolis Lake Outfitters, LLC. (aka Paducah Home Theater). metropolislakeoutfitters@gmail.com.

Whether multi-channel is worthwhile for music depends on the genre. I listen to classical music and opera. My preferences for recording technologies: My favorite is modern performances/recordings (last dozen years or so) that were captured and mastered in hi-res (e.g., 24bit/192kHZ) multi-channel, and delivered on a Blu-ray audio/video disc featuring DTS-HD MA 5.0 (or 5.1) surround-sound. (A few Ultra HD Blu-ray opera recordings are starting to become available.) My second choice in formats are SACD and Pure Audio Blu-ray that feature surround-sound. (No video.) In all cases provenance of the recording is critical – i.e., modern recordings that were captured and mastered as hi-res multi-channel – NOT DSP-generated gimmickry applied to vintage recordings. IME/IMO, hi-res multi-channel (e.g., Blu-ray’s DTS-HD MA 5.1) is VASTLY superior to stereo for the large-scale classical music that I love. There are countless modern (last dozen years or so) recordings of classical compositions that were recorded and mastered in modern “hi-res” formats, and delivered on multi-channel Blu-ray or SACD – and IME/IMO these hi-res multi-channel recordings “blow the socks off” stereo (particularly the 40-year-old Redbook CD format). If you’d like to read about a few examples: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/202102-classical-recordings/&do=findComment&comment=2658804

I can play “all-analog” - e.g., 1950s era classical LP pressings (i.e., no digitization), via 1950s era tube amps (e.g., McIntosh MC30s). I can play modern digital recordings via modern class D amps (stereo or multi-channel). I can play any combination of analog and digital, solid-state and tube, and modern and vintage. My first choice for classical music is modern Blu-ray audio/video recordings featuring DTS-HD MA 5.1, played via my choice of vintage tube amps. For those who tout vinyl, I ask: Have you heard top-quality modern hi-res multi-channel classical recordings played via your choice of tube amps? (I.e., no AVR involved.) Or, are you comparing your favorite LP system to an AVR (or home-theater-in-a-box)? Are you comparing your favorite LPs to DSP-generated pseudo-surround-sound applied to vintage recordings, or are you comparing LPs to state-of-the-art modern recordings that are natively hi-res multi-channel?

I listen to classical music and opera. My preferences for recording technologies: My favorite is modern performances/recordings (last dozen years or so) that were captured and mastered in hi-res (e.g., 24bit/192kHZ) multi-channel, and delivered on a Blu-ray audio/video disc featuring DTS-HD MA 5.0 (or 5.1) surround-sound. (A few Ultra HD Blu-ray opera recordings are starting to become available.) My second choice in formats are SACD and Pure Audio Blu-ray that feature surround-sound. (No video.) In all cases provenance of the recording is critical – i.e., modern recordings that were captured and mastered as hi-res multi-channel – NOT DSP-generated gimmickry applied to vintage recordings. IME/IMO, hi-res multi-channel (e.g., DTS-HD MA 5.1) is VASTLY superior to stereo for the large-scale classical music that I love. There are countless modern (last dozen years or so) recordings of classical compositions that were recorded and mastered in modern “hi-res” formats, and delivered on multi-channel Blu-ray or SACD – and IME/IMO these hi-res multi-channel recordings “blow the socks off” stereo (particularly the 40-year-old Redbook CD format). If you’d like to read about a few examples: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/202102-classical-recordings/&do=findComment&comment=2658804 I don’t know if hi-res multi-channel is relevant to the OP’s preferred music.

Yes, I own many RCA Living Stereo (and Mercury Living Presence) recordings of classical music that were performed and recorded during the late 1950s and early 1960s. I own numerous such recordings that have been remastered from the original analog tapes (or 35mm film), and delivered on SACD. (In some cases, involving 3 channels.) And, I own numerous 1950s and early 1960s era LP pressings of such performances. IME, vintage recordings (whether delivered via LP, CD, or SACD) can sound surprising good - for 60+-year-old recordings. However, they pale in comparison to modern hi-res recordings. Have you listened to top-quality modern performances/recordings that were: Captured and mastered in hi-res, multi-channel. Meaning 24bit/192kHz multi-channel PCM, or DSD multi-channel. (This means performances/recordings from the last dozen years or so.) And, Made available to the consumer as a Blu-ray featuring DTS-HD MA 5.0 or 5.1, and/or SACD featuring multi-channel. And, Played by the consumer in the format that the recording was originally recorded/mastered in (e.g., 24bit/192kHz) - i.e., not down-sampled to the 40-year-old Redbook CD format (or other relatively-speaking compressed digital format)? And, Played on a top-quality multi-channel (e.g., 5.1) hi-fi system. Classical music lovers sometimes must decide which is more important: performance quality, or audio quality of a recording. I’m not a music scholar, and I’m not hyper-critical of a performance. Very often I enjoy modern performances of classical music. However, I have no tolerance for poor audio quality. I therefore choose modern performances (i.e., last dozen years or so) of classical music that were recorded in hi-res (e.g., 24bit/192kHz PCM), and delivered in a hi-res format. IME/IMO, vintage CDs pale in comparison to the sound quality of top-quality modern Blu-ray (and SACD) recordings. As a classical music lover, the good news is that there are MANY modern hi-res multi-channel recordings of classical music compositions. (And, there are many vintage recordings available on the 40-year-old-Redbook-CD, and the older-still LP format.) My point is that the classical music lover isn’t stuck with one recording technology, i.e., vintage vs. modern. The good news is that the classical music lover has a wide breadth of choices in recordings of the music that they love.

I suggest that you investigate whether the Blu-ray player's Toslink interface has the bandwidth to output all hi-res audio formats without down-sampling to a lower resolution. With an outboard DAC, would you be able to play the SACD layer of a hybrid SACD, or the CD layer? Can all hi-res Blu-ray audio formats be supported via an outboard DAC that is connected via Toslink? I'm not a technical expert. With that said, my understanding is that the best options are an HDMI interface to a DAC (or AVR), or DACs that are internal to the universal player. Perhaps someone who is more knowledgeable can explain this.

You're welcome. If you like Beethoven, a great way to get started is the box set that I referenced above. It's a great value. Rafael Frühbeck de Burgos Danish NSO Ludwig van Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 1–9 Joaquín Rodrigo: Concierto de Aranjuez Hector Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique, Op. 14 Richard Strauss: Eine Alpensinfonie (An Alpine Symphony), Op. 64, TrV 233 I have 3 other Blu-ray box sets of Beethoven symphonies. If you're interested I can provide some information about them.

Thanks for making me aware of IDAGIO. Do their classical videos feature hi-res surround-sound? Are you interested in a Blu-ray player that supports multi-channel (i.e., 5.1), or 2-channel (i.e., stereo) only? Will you be using an amp with an HMDI input (e.g., AVR), or an amp with traditional RCA line-level analog inputs? Budget? FWIW, I recommend getting a "universal player" that will play: • CD, • DVD, • DVD-Audio, • SACD, • Blu-ray, • Pure Audio Blu-ray, • Ultra HD Blu-ray, and • Hi-res downloads (e.g., 24bit/192kHz FLAC, and DSD). Following are some quick thoughts. If your amp supports an HDMI input, then consider the Sony UBP-X800M2. It’s cheap, and supports almost every format However, the UBP-X800M2 does not provide analog audio outputs (i.e., it’s HDMI only). If you are adamant that you only want 2-channel analog audio outputs from a disc player, but want the flexibility to support most modern digital audio and video formats, then consider the Sony UBP-X1100ES. Or, to save a few bucks, consider the earlier Sony UBP-X1000ES. For a multi-channel “universal player” with analog audio outputs, consider a used Oppo player: • Oppo UDP-205 (I own 2 of these.) • Oppo BDP-105 (I own 1 of these.) • Oppo BDP-95 (I own 1 of these.) There is a relatively new product on the market, but I have no experience with it: https://www.reavon.com/reavon-ubr-x200

I’m also a fan of Yuga Wang, and I own the Blu-ray you’ve referenced. For those who aren’t familiar with Yuga, I’ll share 2 YouTube videos that I think showcase her talent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVpnr8dI_50 I love Yuga Wang’s performance of Mendelssohn Piano Concerto No. 1, particularly the Andante. The following DVD has excellent audio quality (Dolby Digital 5.1 | DTS 5.1). When played on my Oppo UDP-205, the video quality of this DVD looks almost as good as Blu-ray. I’m also a fan of Khatia Buniatishvili. (I’ve seen Khatia perform live.) I enjoy this Blu-ray disc of Khatia performing: Liszt: Piano Concerto No. 2 Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 1 I particularly enjoyed the Liszt. Excellent audio quality (Dolby Digital 5.1 | Dolby Atmos compatible Dolby True HD 7.1) and HD video. Here's one of my favorite YouTube clips of Khatia (unfortunately not available on Blu-ray): o Here’s Khatia and her sister Gvantsa performing together: Here’s Khatia and Yuga performing together: Full disclosure, I’m “kinda sweet on” Khatia. And, I’m “kinda sweet on” Anna Netrebko, Elīna Garanča, Nadine Sierra, and several other beautiful ladies of classical music. All good reasons for Blu-ray’s high-definition video, IMO.

OP: I’m late in joining. (I haven’t had much time for forum activity in recent months due to being occupied with projects.) I’ll offer a short answer, and a long-winded one. Short Answer I’ll offer two quick examples that come to mind that are excellent state-of-the-art recordings of music that has significant dynamic range. (Perhaps I should say they are “near” state-of-the-art because they are Blu-ray vs. Ultra HD Blu-ray.) If you want to experience what a modern recording can deliver for large-scale orchestral music that has significant dynamic range, then play this Blu-ray of Mahler Symphony 2 on a high-quality surround-sound system equipped with large front, center, and right speakers, and large subwoofers. (And, of course, an HDTV to see the concert.) The following Blu-ray disc includes 2008 performances by Valery Gergiev, featuring the Mariinsky Orchestra and Ballet, in the Ballets Russes’ production of: The Firebird The Rite of Spring This Blu-ray features excellent quality 1080 high-definition video, and DTS-HD MA 5.1 audio (plus, of course, a hi-res stereo track). If you want to experience the full dynamic impact of The Rite of Spring, listen to the DTS-HD MA 5.1 surround-sound audio track, employing a surround-sound hi-fi system that features large speakers and subwoofers. (I listened on a system with a 15” powered subwoofer, plus a 16” powered sub, and front (L&R), center, and rear speakers that each have two 10” woofers - i.e., a total of eight 10” woofers plus two relatively large subwoofers. I say “relatively large” because some subwoofer aficionados would describe a 16” subwoofer as “mid-size”.) The timpani and bass drum that my hi-fi system delivered from this recording were articulate, had natural timber, and – at times – were EXPLOSIVE. I think that it’s interesting that in this performance of The Rite of Spring, the dancers sometimes clapped their hands, stomped their feet, and pounded the floor – which apparently is true to the original performance. (Based on what I understand from the included documentary.) The Rite of Spring isn’t quite my cup of tea, but I’m glad to have this modern audio/video recording of the music and ballet. I very much enjoyed The Firebird – including the costumes, dancing, and music. Ekaterina Kondaurova looks beautiful dancing the role of the firebird. (IMO.) The high-definition video delivers a stunning visual presentation of the dancers, costumes, and scenery. Long Answer I hope that members will pardon the fact that I’ve hurriedly cobbled together content from some of my previous posts. (I’m afraid that I don’t have much time today to edit for conciseness.) I enjoy classical music and opera, which (in my city) are performed live in a world-class purpose-built symphony hall (and opera house) where music is performed with no use of a sound reinforcement system, and there are no electronically produced sounds. (In other words, the music involves 100% natural sound produced by orchestral instruments.) My benchmark for the sound quality from my hi-fi systems is classical music performed live in its intended venue. Before coronavirus caused all concerts to be canceled, I attended more than 30 classical concerts each year, including season tickets to the symphony, and opera, plus several chamber concerts. Recognizing some variance in instruments and halls, I have a pretty good idea (technical term) for how orchestral instruments (e.g., violin, clarinet, trumpet, timpani, etc.) sound. My goal for the sound quality of recorded classical music played via my home hi-fi systems is to create the illusion that I’m in the symphony hall or opera house where classical music was performed live, and for inevitable deviations to sound pleasant vs. unpleasant – to my ears. One of my priorities is for the timbre of the orchestra instruments to sound natural. And I want my hi-fi systems to achieve dynamic range that approaches the live concert experience. Classical music lovers know that large-scale orchestral music can have significant dynamic range. I often cite Mahler Symphony 2 as an example. That's why I recommended the Blu-ray recording above. Certainly, recorded music can be enjoyed with less than state-of-the-art recordings and hi-fi systems. Classical music lovers sometimes must decide which is more important: performance quality, or audio quality of a recording. I’m not a music scholar, and I’m not hyper-critical of a performance. Very often I enjoy modern performances of classical music. However, I have no tolerance for poor audio quality. I therefore choose modern performances (i.e., last dozen years or so) of classical music that were recorded in hi-res (e.g., 24bit/192kHz PCM), and delivered in a hi-res format. My preferences for recording technologies: My favorite is modern performances/recordings (last dozen years or so) that were captured and mastered in hi-res (e.g., 24bit/192kHZ) multi-channel, and delivered on a Blu-ray audio/video disc featuring DTS-HD MA 5.0 (or 5.1) surround-sound. (A few Ultra HD Blu-ray opera recordings are starting to become available.) My second choice in formats are SACD and Pure Audio Blu-ray that feature surround-sound. (No video.) My third choice are 24bit/96kHz or 24bit/192kHz FLAC stereo downloads (e.g., HDTracks). In all cases provenance of the recording is critical – i.e., modern recordings that were captured and mastered as hi-res. (In a few cases high quality analog master tapes have been digitized at hi-res with fairly good results - e.g., some RCA Living Stereo, and Mercury Living Presence. However, IME these vintage recordings pale in comparison to modern state-of-the-art hi-res multi-channel recordings.) I understand that some people prefer to ignore the visual component of music. For example, some people prefer to listen to an audio-only recording of opera (perhaps because they are primarily aficionados of operatic singing). OTOH, others (including me) feel that the acting and scenery are an important part of an opera’s storytelling, and therefore prefer a Blu-ray audio/video recording. Blu-ray offers another significant benefit for opera: displaying the libretto (in one of several languages) on the HDTV screen. IMO the visual component of ballet is even more important. However, some people just listen to the ballet’s music. IMO, Blu-ray’s high-resolution video is also very enjoyable for classical orchestral concerts - i.e., seeing the conductor, musicians, and venue. Blu-ray has enabled me to see many symphony halls and opera houses around the world that I otherwise would have never seen. And some of the conductors and musicians are enjoyable to watch. Hi-fi sound reproduction is not limited to 2-channel audio-only recordings. There are countless modern multi-channel recordings, and IMO/IME these can far surpass the enjoyment delivered by 2 channel play-back. IME, one of the benefits of Blu-ray DTS-HD 5.1 is the potentially greater dynamic range compared with stereo. IME/IMO, the biggest advance in recorded music in recent years has been the availability of hi-res recordings of modern performances (last dozen years or so) of classical music, opera, and ballet delivered on Blu-ray audio/video discs featuring DTS-HD MA multi-channel audio, and high-definition video. Ultra HD Blu-ray recordings are slowly becoming available. When I connect my Oppo UDP-205 to vintage tube amps to drive high-end Klipsch speakers in a surround-sound configuration (including subwoofers), this configuration delivers a near-symphony-concert-hall experience. For classical music, Blu-ray audio/video, Ultra HD Blu-ray, Pure Audio Blu-ray, SACD, and hi-res (e.g., 24bit/192kHz, or DSD) downloads are indispensable. IME/IMO, multichannel is FAR superior to stereo for classical music. And, hi-res audio is superior to Redbook CD. In my basement system (average size room), I have no problems with dynamics or deep bass, for any music. Front, center, and left speakers are Klipsch RF-7 II. A single rear speaker is a Klipsch RF-7. Subwoofers: SVS SB16-Ultra, Klipsch R-115SW. Source: Oppo UDP-205 universal player, playing hi-res recordings of large-scale classical music. (The Oppo provides the bass management function, meaning that the power-hungry bass is off-loaded from the main amp and speakers.) I have multiple tube amps in this system. If I use, for example, a Scott 296 to drive the left and right channels, and a Fisher KX-200 (or Scott 272) to drive the center and (single) rear channel, there is dynamic range and frequency range approaching a live concert in a symphony hall. (These tube amps each produce approximately 30 - 40 wpc. If I want more muscle, I’ll use my LK150 which produces about 58wpc.) No problems with dynamics, or deep bass, for any genre of music. (For big-band music or folk music, my 8wpc single-ended pentode amp is adequate) I’ve converted 4 of my 5 hi-fi systems to multi-channel, because IMO – when playing modern classical recordings – the experience is far superior to listening to stereo. There are countless modern (last dozen years or so) recordings of classical compositions that were recorded and mastered in modern “hi-res” formats, and delivered on Blu-ray or SACD. IME, you can’t make a silk purse from a SOW’s ear. Garbage-in / garbage-out. Provenance of a recording is extremely important. Delivering a vintage recording in a “hi-res” wrapper doesn’t magically improve its quality. If you pour 5 gallons of milk into a 55-gallon drum, it’s still 5 gallons. (Recorded music can be enjoyed with less than state-of-the-art recordings and hi-fi systems. With that said, my point is that historic performances are limited to technology available at the time of the recording.) I’ll post just a few examples of modern recordings here. I you’d like I can post more recommendations in later posts, or you may wish to join this discussion on talkclassical.com: https://www.talkclassical.com/54011-blu-ray-videos-classical.html Rafael Frühbeck de Burgos Danish NSO Ludwig van Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 1–9 Joaquín Rodrigo: Concierto de Aranjuez Hector Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique, Op. 14 Richard Strauss: Eine Alpensinfonie (An Alpine Symphony), Op. 64, TrV 233 (I own 3 other Blu-ray audio/video box sets of modern performances of all Beethoven symphonies.) Jean Sibelius: Complete Symphonies "Tchaikovsky, The Complete Symphonies". Brahms symphonies by Paavo Järvi conducting the Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie Bremen. Schumann Symphonies The latest concert series on Blu-ray that I’m enjoying: Bruckner Symphonies 1-9. Christian Thielemann conducting the Staatskapelle Dresden in 2012 – 2019 performances at several different venues. I have this Blu-ray box set of Mahler symphonies on order: I own two different Blu-ray recordings of Brahms’ Ein Deutsches Requiem. My favorite is Franz Welser-Möst leading the Cleveland Orchestra in a 2016 performance at the Stiftsbasilika St. Florian in Austria. IMO this is an excellent example of what Blu-ray can offer – i.e., outstanding audio and video quality. Beautiful venue. I loved the performance. I also have several other Blu-ray audio/video box sets of symphonies. Plus several other classical concerts on Blu-ray. Plus numerous modern opera and ballet audio/video recordings on Blu-ray. (And a few in Ultra HD Blu-ray.) (Plus, many classical recordings on SACD.) After experiencing modern audio/video concert videos featuring high-def video, and hi-res audio featuring surround-sound, I greatly prefer this to listening to CDs (or streaming). As I mentioned earlier, you may wish to join this discussion on talkclassical.com: https://www.talkclassical.com/54011-blu-ray-videos-classical.html

As with many things in the hobby of hi-fi, whether radio is “dead” depends on the genre(s) of music you listen to. The only time I listen to the radio is for background listening at dinnertime, and in the car. I love kusc.org: 100% classical 24x365, no commercials, human announcer. EXCELLENT. (For those who complain that “all good DJs are gone” … IMO this is an indictment against the genre of music you listen to, not radio stations in general.) kusc.com is available to me via Tune-In streaming radio service. (I think that my Google Home accesses kusc via iHeartRadio.) Four of my hi-fi systems are equipped with Chromecast Audio. (My fifth system is in my office, and I can play internet radio via my PC and a USB DAC.) I have a Chromecast Audio connected to the “Tuner” input of my pre-amp in my living room system My living room system can drive an amp and speakers for my dining room and kitchen/breakfast-room. When in my kitchen and breakfast room, I simply say: “Hey google. Play radio station Classical KUSC on Chromecast living room.” Separately, about a year ago we got a local classical radio station that is commercial free. At home, I can listen via FM broadcast (i.e., over-the-air). However, it’s easier to listen via streaming. (For example, while in the kitchen I can change the radio station via voice command.) IMO, the audio quality of streaming radio is good enough for background music when listening in my home. (Of course, my local classical FM station is a blessing in the car.) For serious listening, I enjoy Blu-ray and SACD discs that feature hi-res, and multi-channel. IMO/IME, FM and streaming are suitable for “listening in the background” while focused on something else.

OP: Welcome I listen almost exclusively to classical music and opera. I’m happy with RF-7II driven by the right tube amps for large-scale classical music and opera. Synergy between speakers and amp is important. For my RF-7II, IME/IMO tubes such as 6L6GC are better with string instruments, however solid state is sometimes better with a piano’s sharp attack. If you can accommodate the width of Cornwall IV, I’d seriously consider them, based on reviews I’ve read. (I’ve never heard them, but I’m intrigued.) I’m not knowledgeable about playing music that is stored on a phone. (My favorite format is Blu-ray, following by SACD. I enjoy multi-channel surround-sound.) What bit depth and sampling rate are your files? Do you have any “hi-res” files? Have you considered hi-res recordings? How will you get the audio from your phone to the amp? What amp do you have, or are you considering? Are you aware that some vintage recordings have been digitized and remastered from the analog master tapes, and delivered in a hi-res format such as SACD or hi-res download or Pure Audio Blu-ray? You’ll find remastered recordings for all of the pianists you listed on hdtracks.com. You can find SACDs and Blu-rays on amazon.com. Provenance of the recording is extremely important. For decades-old recordings, the quality of the original recording is the ultimate limiting factor. A decades-old recording will not have state-of-the-art audio quality – even if it has been remastered. Classical music lovers sometimes must decide which is more important: performance quality, or audio quality of a recording. I’m not a music scholar, and I’m not hyper-critical of a performance. Very often I enjoy modern performances of classical music. However, I have no tolerance for poor audio quality. I therefore often choose modern performances of classical music that were recorded in hi-res. Do you listen to any pianists who have recorded in the last dozen years or so? There is a wealth of modern classical performances that were recorded and mastered in hi-res (i.e., 24bit/192kHz PCM, or DSD), and delivered in a hi-res format (e.g., Blu-ray, Pure Audio Blu-ray, SACD, hi-res download). Blu-ray delivers high-definition video, in addition to hi-res audio. (Usually – but not always – Blu-ray discs include both DTS-HD MA 5.1 and stereo tracks.) Here’s a few Blu-rays that might interest you. (I don’t own any of these, so I can’t comment on their quality.) The audio quality of your hi-fi will never be better than the audio quality of the recording. Garbage-in/garbage-out. High-end Klipsch will reveal any harshness in the recording, and any harshness in the DAC and amp. I suggest that you consider all factors that affect audio quality – not just the speakers. Good luck, and please let us know your results. P.S. You asked about the hi-fi systems that classical music lovers use. Following are my current configurations. TV room: Main front left & right speakers are Klipsch Palladium P-37F. Center: Klipsch RC-64III. Single rear: Klipsch RP-502S. Subwoofer: Klipsch P-312W. The source is an Oppo UDP-205 for playing Blu-ray and SACD, and a USB hard drive containing high-res FLAC recordings. I generally use vintage tube amps for music: Scott 399, McIntosh MC225, Fisher X-1000, Scott 299C, McIntosh MX110Z / McIntosh MC240. I use solid-state amps for movies (and summertime): NAD C375BEE, and an NAD D 3045. A patch panel (banana plugs) allows me to connect the speakers to whichever amp I want, and Niles AXP-1 RCA selector switches connect the Oppo to the amp. HDTV is connected via TOSLINK to the UDP-205 to play audio from broadcast TV via the hi-fi. Chromecast Audio is connected via analog audio to the NAD C375BEE for internet radio. Basement: Front, center, and left speakers are Klipsch RF-7 II. A single rear speaker is a Klipsch RF-7. Subwoofers: SVS SB16-Ultra, Klipsch R-115SW. Source: Oppo UDP-205 for playing Blu-ray and SACDs, and a USB hard drive containing high-res FLAC recordings. Amps: Scott 272, Inspire “Fire Bottle” SE Stereo Tube Amplifier HO, Scott 222C, Fisher KX-200, Scott 296, Pilot SA-260, Scott LK150, Altec 353A, Kenwood KR-9050. (This system also has a Schiit Loki tone-control. I can connect the power amps direct to the Oppo, or insert the Loki.) A patch panel allows me to connect the speakers to whichever amp I want, and F/F RCA cables enable me to connect an amp to the Oppo, and a power amp to the Loki if I choose to do so. Chromecast Audio is connected via TOSLINK to the UDP-205 for internet radio. Living room: Stereo speakers are Snell Type CV. Center: Klipsch RC-64III. Single rear: RP-502S. Subwoofer: Klipsch P-312W. The source components are Oppo BDP-95 for playing Blu-ray, SACDs, and CDs (and a USB hard drive containing high-res FLAC recordings), and Dual 1249 with Stanton 681EE equipped with a new Shibata stylus. Amps include a pair of McIntosh MC30s, Scott 296, McIntosh MX110Z / McIntosh MC275, a pair of Pilot HF-56 mono receivers, an NAD pre-amp and Acurus A250 power-amp for movies, and a McIntosh 2155 driving JBL L830s in the kitchen / dining room. A patch panel (banana plugs) allows me to connect the speakers to whichever amp I want, and a F/F RCA cables enable me to connect an amp to the Oppo. Chromecast Audio is connected via analog audio to the NAD pre-amp for internet radio. Bedroom: Front, center, and left speakers are Klipsch WF-35. SVS SB-2000 Pro subwoofer. Source is an Oppo BDP-105 for playing Blu-ray and SACDs, and a USB hard drive containing high-res FLAC recordings. Fisher 500C drives the left & right speakers. Fisher TA 500 (AM/FM mono receiver) drives the center speaker. Chromecast Audio is connected via TOSLINK to the BDP-105 for internet radio. Office: Stereo speakers are JBL L880. Sources: Oppo DV-980H SACD/CD/DVD, and my Windows 10 laptop with Music Streamer II DAC. Amps: Fisher 800B, Scott 299B, and an NAD D 3020 for general internet use (and summertime).

OP: You’ve just kicked the hornet’s nest. 🙂 What genre(s) of music do you listen to? Two quick thoughts: If you're unhappy with the "transistor sound", I suggest a tube amp. https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/195237-tubes-warmer-sounding/&do=findComment&comment=2547787 IMO/IME the quality of the recording is one of the most important facets of hi-fi sound reproduction – more important than tube vs. solid-state - and is usually overlooked.

With all due respect, apparently you haven’t read my posts. In my posts on this thread I’ve said: IME if you want to experience top-quality reproduction of music concerts in your home, you need top-quality hi-res recordings of modern performances (last dozen years or so) delivered on Blu-ray (or Ultra HD Blu-ray) audio/video discs featuring DTS-HD MA 5.1 multi-channel audio and high-definition video. IME, you can’t make a silk purse from a SOW’s ear. Garbage-in / garbage-out. Provenance of a recording is extremely important. Delivering a vintage recording in a “hi-res” wrapper doesn’t magically improve its quality. If you pour 5 gallons of milk into a 55-gallon drum, it’s still 5 gallons. (Recorded music can be enjoyed with less than state-of-the-art recordings and hi-fi systems. With that said, my point is that historic performances are limited to technology available at the time of the recording.) Because different people listen to different music, different people have different needs for a disc player. In response to your assertion that most recordings don’t take advantage of the dynamic range that’s available via CD, this is highly dependent on the genre of music. You said: “Once you’ve captured the dynamics and bandwidth of the source, you’re done”. For classical music, the “work of art” (i.e., the “source”) is the live performance in a world-class symphony hall with no sound reinforcement system (i.e., no electronics employed). A live performance of Mahler Symphony 2 has tremendous dynamic range. In an earlier post I listed a modern hi-res recording of Mahler 2 that delivers this tremendous dynamic range, and moreover delivers beautiful audio and video quality. (Increased dynamic range is not the only improvement in modern formats such as DTS-HD MA 5.1. IME, hi-res recordings excel at delivering the subtle natural timbre of orchestral instruments.) For the classical music that I love there are many modern (i.e., recorded last dozen years or so), state-of-the-art, high-quality, hi-res (i.e., 24bit/192kHz PCM, or DSD) recordings featuring surround-sound. (I’m talking about modern recordings that were originally recorded and mastered in hi-res surround-sound, NOT “fake-hi-res” recordings for which the “source” is a CD, and NOT DSP-generated pseudo-surround-sound.) If you paid for “fake-hi-res” recordings for which the “source” is a CD, and this wasn’t disclosed to you, then IMO you were ripped off. If you listen to pop music that has little dynamic range to begin with, and then the dynamic range was compressed further during mastering (i.e., “loudness wars”), then you are correct that for these types of pop recordings there is little dynamic range. IME, modern hi-res classical recordings are not compressed. IME, modern Blu-ray audio/video recordings featuring DTS-HD MA 5.0 (or 5.1) surround-sound come closest to the concert hall experience. (And Blu-ray delivers beautiful high-definition images of the musicians and hall, which IMO is very enjoyable. Blu-ray has enabled me to see high-definition videography of some of the most beautiful symphony halls and opera houses in the world.) Have you ever heard a modern (last dozen years or so) classical recording that was captured and mastered in hi-res multi-channel surround-sound, and delivered in Blu-ray’s DTS-HD MA 5.1 format, played on an excellent surround-sound system? Have you experienced a modern classical recording that features high-def video? IME - in general - the in-home experience delivered by modern Blu-ray recordings of classical music is vastly superior to what the 40-year-old CD format can deliver. I’m attempting to make 2 points: CDs do NOT meet everyone’s needs, and I’ve learned via discussion forums that some people aren’t aware that music (for some genres) is available in formats newer than CD. Some people might enjoy discovering new ways to enjoy recorded music. Bottom line: The genre of music is an important factor in this discussion of which recording formats are relevant for an individual audiophile.

FWIW – IME –most audiophiles ignore the biggest “sources of distortion and inaccuracy” - i.e., less-than-state-of-the-art quality recordings. At the risk of beating a dead horse, IME if you want to experience top-quality reproduction of music concerts in your home, you need top-quality hi-res recordings of modern performances (last dozen years or so) delivered on Blu-ray (or Ultra HD Blu-ray) audio/video discs featuring DTS-HD MA 5.1 multi-channel audio and high-definition video. Or, for audio-only multi-channel recordings, then Pure Audio Blu-ray, or SACD. Or, for stereo-only audio-only recordings (which IMO/IME are antiquated vs. audio-video/multi-channel recordings), hi-res stereo recordings are suitable (e.g., 24bit/192kHz PCM downloads). Redbook CD is vintage technology (16bit/44.1kHz) – i.e., introduced 40 years ago. Vintage recordings involve vintage audio technology. Vintage technology does NOT deliver state-of-the-art audio quality. IME/IMO, recordings of historic performances can deliver enjoyable music in the home. My advice: Don’t confuse your perception of performance quality (e.g., historic performances), with your perception of audio quality. Vintage recordings generally do NOT represent the best-available (i.e., state-of-the-art) audio quality. With that said, I recognize that many people enjoy what they regard as the definitive historic performance. The good news for classical music lovers is that there are many modern performances (last dozen years or so) delivered on Blu-ray (or Ultra HD Blu-ray) audio/video discs featuring DTS-HD MA 5.1 multi-channel audio and high-definition video. And there are countless modern classical performances delivered on audio-only SACD or Pure Audio Blu-ray discs.

P.S. OP, I just looked up your Anthem MRX 720 A/V Receiver. Looks like a nice AVR. With a Sony UBP-X800M2 universal player ($248 on Crutchfield), connected via HDMI to the Anthem, you could play almost any disc format (Ultra HD Blu-ray discs, 3D and standard Blu-ray discs, SACDs, DVD-Audio, DVDs, CDs and rewriteable discs), and hi-res download format (PCM files up to 24-bit/192kHz resolution, and 2.8 MHz DSD files), and realize state-of-the-art audio quality. With your RF-7III, you would realize OUSTANDING audio quality, given modern recordings (recorded in the last dozen years or so) delivered on Blu-ray and SACD discs. (Remember, garbage-in/garbage-out for recordings.) Presumably the Anthem would support streaming such as Tidal. Your thoughts? P.P.S. IME most Blu-ray and SACD music recordings include at least 2 audio tracks: DTS-HD MA 5.0 or 5.1 (i.e., hi-res multi-channel surround-sound), and hi-res stereo. (A few Pure Audio Blu-ray discs include 3 audio tracks: hi-res stereo, 5.1 and 7.1.)

I’m late in joining this discussion. PCM is Pulse Code Modulation. It is used by CD, Blu-ray, and many hi-res downloads (e.g., 24bit/192kHz). SACDs employ a completely different technology called Direct Stream Digital (DSD) - sometimes referred to as “single bit”. Most SACDs are hybrid, meaning that they contain an SACD layer and a CD layer. You can’t play the SACD layer on a PC. I’m curious why many forum members are comparing streaming with CDs, given that the Redbook CD format (16bit/44.1kHz) is a vintage digital disc technology (i.e., 40 years old). The Redbook CD format does not deliver state-of-the-art audio. Newer formats for music that deliver hi-res multi-channel audio include DTS-HD MA 5.1 on Blu-ray, and SACD. Streaming services cannot match state-of-the-art disc technologies such as Blu-ray’s DTS-HD MA 5.1. Moreover, many modern audio/video classical recordings (e.g., orchestral concerts, opera, ballet) that are available on Blu-ray are not available at all via streaming services. $64k question: What genre(s) of music do you listen to? How many of the following formats are relevant to the music you like? CD, DVD, DVD-Audio, SACD, Blu-ray, Pure Audio Blu-ray, Ultra HD Blu-ray, and Hi-res downloads. You can search Amazon and find recordings in all of the disc formats listed above. Because different people listen to different music, different people have different needs for a disc player. IME/IMO, the biggest advance in recorded music in recent years has been the availability of hi-res recordings of modern performances (last dozen years or so) of classical music, opera, and ballet delivered on Blu-ray audio/video discs featuring DTS-HD MA multi-channel audio, and high-definition video. Ultra HD Blu-ray recordings are slowly becoming available. When I connect my Oppo UDP-205 to vintage tube amps to drive high-end Klipsch speakers in a surround-sound configuration (including subwoofers), this configuration delivers a near-symphony-concert-hall experience. (No AVR or pre-processor is involved.) For classical music, Blu-ray audio/video, Ultra HD Blu-ray, Pure Audio Blu-ray, SACD, and hi-res (e.g., 24bit/192kHz, or DSD) downloads are indispensable. IME/IMO, multichannel is FAR superior to stereo for classical music. And, hi-res audio is superior to Redbook CD. There are countless modern (last dozen years or so) recordings of classical compositions that were recorded and mastered in modern “hi-res” formats, and delivered on Blu-ray or SACD. IME, you can’t make a silk purse from a SOW’s ear. Garbage-in / garbage-out. Provenance of a recording is extremely important. Delivering a vintage recording in a “hi-res” wrapper doesn’t magically improve its quality. If you pour 5 gallons of milk into a 55-gallon drum, it’s still 5 gallons. (Recorded music can be enjoyed with less than state-of-the-art recordings and hi-fi systems. With that said, my point is that historic performances are limited to technology available at the time of the recording.) If you want to experience what a modern recording can deliver for large-scale orchestral music, then play this Blu-ray on a high-quality surround-sound system equipped with large subwoofers and HDTV: (Where is this Blu-ray audio/video recording available via streaming with uncompromised multi-channel audio, and high-def video? Where are countless other classical Blu-ray audio/videos available, other than Blu-ray? ) IME, CDs and streaming fall FAR short of what a modern Blu-ray can deliver for in-home enjoyment of classical music. OTOH, if you solely listen to decades-old recordings, you are limited to decades-old recording technology - and CDs and/or streaming might be as good as it gets – and you might be content with that. Bottom line: Your requirements for a “player” are 100% dependent on the genre(s) of music you listen to. Be very wary of outboard DACs. @Marvel pointed out limitations of TOSLINK in his post above. Coax also has limitations. I suggest that you first decide which recording formats you want to support, vs. blindly buying a DAC that supports limited formats. To play all types of digital recordings – old and new (e.g., CD, DVD, DVD-Audio, SACD, Blu-ray, Pure Audio Blu-ray, Ultra HD Blu-ray, and hi-res downloads) without any compromise in audio quality, a universal player is required that has built-in DACs (e.g., Oppo UDP-205), or an HDMI interface (not TOSLINK or coax) to an external DAC that supports all formats, or an HDMI interface to an amp with an HDMI input (e.g., AVR) that supports all formats. Another important decision is support for 5.1 vs. 2.1 vs. stereo. My advice: Don’t knock modern multi-channel recordings (i.e., NOT DSP-generated pseudo-surround-sound) until you’ve heard it. The availability of modern multi-channel recordings varies by genre. FWIW, here’s more of my opinions: I hope this helps.

There are countless existing threads on numerous hi-fi forums on the topic of solid-state vs. tubes. Google is your friend. For hi-res recordings of classical music, I generally prefer tubes. Here’s one of my relevant posts:

What genres of music do you listen to?

Here’s my thoughts that I posted on another forum. (Many of these issues have already been discussed by others in this thread.) Speaker sensitivity is specified on a logarithmic scale. To put this in perspective, some owners of highly sensitive speakers (e.g., Klipschorn, 105dB) are satisfied with a 2wpc tube amp, whereas some people require 100 times that power because their speakers have a low sensitivity rating, and based on other important factors discussed below. Speaker/amp synergy. This is black magic, as far as I’m concerned. IMO, you basically have to audition amps and speakers together to hear if they “play well together”. Tubes vs. solid-state. Analogies are dangerous, but in a sense, this is like the difference between a diesel vs. gas engine when pulling a heavy load. Tube watts “go farther” than solid-state watts. Room size. If you double the length, width, and height, the room has 8 times the volume, meaning much more acoustic power is needed to fill the room. Distance from listening chair to speakers. Sound level is inversely proportional to the square of the distance – i.e., if you sit far away, you need more power. Listening volume. Some people listen at volume levels that causes hearing damage. Again, logarithmic – meaning if you want insane volume level, it takes a lot of power. (FWIW, I don’t recommend that people damage their hearing, or be inconsiderate of neighbors.) Genre of music. Large scale orchestral music can have tremendous dynamic range. Some large-scale classical compositions go from whisper to as many as 200+ musicians playing fff. Classical music can therefore place a relatively large demand on an amp and speakers. Folk music – not so much. Mastering of a recording. Modern hi-res recordings of classical music typically are not compressed, and can include significant dynamic range. OTOH, a lot of pop music is highly compressed, resulting in less dynamic range and less demand on an amp and speakers. (In other words, with some pop music, you can listen at a lower volume level and hear everything because there are no soft and loud passages in the music.) Technology of the consumer deliverable. Modern hi-res consumer deliverables like Blu-ray DTS-HD MA 5.1, 24bit/192kHz download, and SACD are capable of delivering to the consumer the tremendous dynamic range of modern hi-res classical recordings of large-scale classical music. OTOH, some consumer formats (e.g., LP) are capable of less dynamic range, and therefore place less demand on an amp and speakers. Whether or not a subwoofer cross-over is installed before the amp, thereby off-loading power-hungry bass from the main amp and speakers. (I use my Oppo UDP-205’s bass management feature, and line-level subwoofer connection.) Surround sound 5.1 vs. stereo. If you have 3 identical speakers (LCR) across the front, plus rear speakers, and subwoofer(s), you’ll have more acoustic power than 2 speakers. In some surround-sound installations multiple amps are used, in which case each amp is doing only part of the work Bi-amping. In some cases, not only are separate amps used for each channel, but some people bi-amp or tri-amp individual speakers. Again, each amp is doing only part of the work. (For example, a “flea power” SET tube amp may be adequate to drive a K-402 horn, while a more powerful amp drives the associated bass bin.) Ambient noise level in listening room. In a very quiet room, it is easier to hear the quiet passages in classical music, and therefore the volume doesn’t have to be turned up as loud. In my basement system (average size room), I have no problems with dynamics or deep bass, for any music. Front, center, and left speakers are Klipsch RF-7 II. A single rear speaker is a Klipsch RF-7. Subwoofers: SVS SB16-Ultra, Klipsch R-115SW. Source: Oppo UDP-205 universal player, playing hi-res recordings of large-scale classical music. (The Oppo provides the bass management function, meaning that the power-hungry bass is off-loaded from the main amp and speakers.) I have multiple tube amps in this system. If I use, for example, a Scott 296 to drive the left and right channels, and a Fisher KX-200 (or Scott 272) to drive the center and (single) rear channel, there is dynamic range and frequency range approaching a live concert in a symphony hall. (These tube amps each produce approximately 30 - 40 wpc. If I want more muscle, I’ll use my LK150 which produces about 58wpc.) No problems with dynamics, or deep bass, for any genre of music. For big-band music or folk music, my 8wpc single-ended pentode amp is adequate. Bottom line, there’s a big difference between playing an LP of a “little girl with a guitar” in a small listening room, vs. delivering in a large listening room an experience that approximates the live performance of Mahler Symphony 2 - i.e., uncompromised dynamic range and frequency range - when playing this modern Blu-ray that features an uncompressed DTS-HD MA 5.1 audio track:

For the modern hi-res multi-channel classical recording that I love (i.e., Blu-ray and SACD), I prefer vintage tube amps with my RF-7II. I use Oppo UDP-205, BDP-105, and BDP-95 in systems that use analog audio connections to vintage tube amps in stereo and multi-channel configurations (e.g., 3.1, 4.1, and 4.2). 5.1 and 7.1 configurations are also possible. The UDP-205 plays all digital formats (e.g., Ultra HD Blu-ray, Blu-ray, SACD, downloaded hi-res, etc.) No AVR or pre-processor involved. For Hollywood movies, I use solid-state amps.

IME, you can realize good results with either an RF-7III or RC-64III for center channel. Following is my experience, based on listening to modern multi-channel hi-res recordings (Blu-ray, SACD) of large-scale classical music, and using tube amps: Basement: Front, center, and left speakers are Klipsch RF-7 II. I made a stand for the HDTV that includes a shelf for the center-channel RF-7II (i.e., the RF-7II sits on its side). One downside is that the high-frequency driver is not centered. I have an RF-7 as the singe rear speaker. Subwoofers: SVS SB16-Ultra, Klipsch R-115SW. When playing modern (last dozen years or so) DTS-HD MA 5.1 classical recordings, this system can deliver the full frequency range and dynamic range of a live concert in the symphony hall. In my bedroom system, front, center, and left speakers are Klipsch WF-35. All floorstanding. SVS SB-2000 Pro subwoofer. Sounds great. In my TV room, front left & right speakers are Klipsch Palladium P-37F. Center: Klipsch RC-64III. Single rear: Klipsch RP-502S. Subwoofer: Klipsch P-312W. Sounds great. In my living room, front left & right speakers are Snell Type CV. Center: Klipsch RC-64III. Single rear: RP-502S. Subwoofer: Klipsch P-312W. Sounds great. IME, you could achieve excellent audio quality with either an RF-7III or RC-64III for center channel. I think the deciding factors between an RF-7III or RC-64III for center channel are: Which can be more easily accommodated in your current listening room? Which will provide the most flexibility if you move, or change room layout in the future? (It seems to me that in most listening rooms an RC-64III would be easier to accommodate under a TV screen.) I’m very pleased with my RC-64III, but there’s no doubt that you’d realize outstanding sound quality with 3 RF-7III across the front.