DVDMike

I was using the minidsp hd for bi-amping the klipschorns with tube amp powering the mid/high and SS the bass bin. It worked OK now, I’ve move to the 4x10 miniDSP and am tri-amping. The tube only powers the squawker and all passives are out of the stream. I have a SS powering the tweeter. There was a noticeable improvement after several iterations of setting crossover points and modifying peq. still, I did all modifications by ear and looking at levels in the software. I’m sure it would be even better using additional software and a microphone to measure. But the speakers sound the best I’ve ever heard as it is right now.

aren’t you both helpful and mature!

I thank everyone for helping. I've got my initial tri-amp setup working now. I'm using the miniDSP 4x10 unit to as my active crossover. The included software doesn't have all of the same features as the 2x4 HD unit, which is a bit of a disappointment. But it does work. I wont bore anyone with the details unless someone is interested. I am still considering changing out the horn and or mid driver. But what I have now is better than before with the passive crossovers. I only have 5 PEQ settings per driver in this software. I am missing something in the low mid or high bass area that I should be able to fix with crossover changes and or EQ fine tuning. Attahed is a screen shot of the software that comes with the 2x10 miniDSP unit.

This photo is after me spending 2 hours trying to get the nuts off. So the bubba job you see here was me using a lot of force trying to get it off. I used wrenches, pliers, screw drivers, wire cutters and such. I wasn’t try to salvage the posts so I couldn’t have cared less about the wire or post.

Yes, that’s what I’ve ordered. And I salvaged the plastic housing.

so your assertion hear is that a previous owner went to the trouble to open up the panel and do nothing but solder connections? And they did not do anything to the upper crossover which is much easier to access? Any reason why they might do that other than connections and the speaker were loose from the factory install and malfunctioning? I can tell you there was corrosion, or at least a lot of reddish buildup around those nuts. It cannot be seen in that photo because I removed it trying to get the wire out so I could try to get the nut off. As I stated, I’m not sure anything was soldered on those terminals. But this picture is after quite some time trying to get the nut off with wrenches and pliers. I could have easily damaged the soft plastic in my attempt to get those nuts off following the corrosion that occurred. I don’t have a “before” photo. And I did not claim this photo was a “before” photo. In fact I believe I said I was struggling trying to get the nut off. I thought that made it clear that I had used a lot of force on these posts. Is their a reason why you think I’m purposely trying to spread misinformation here? I’m making observations about what I believe based on what I know. I resent the implication that I have some general beef with klipsch and am purposely trying to falsely smear klipsch or something like that. You are free to counter my statements with what you believe to be the truth. That’s acceptable. But making an implication that I’m purposely not telling the true is something quite different and I will not tolerate it from anyone. im as big a fan of klipsch as anyone. I’ve got something like 28 klipsch speakers plus 7 klipsch subs hooked up and working in my home. I don’t have a reason to begrudge klipsch. I’m a huge advocate of the brand. But I try to tell the truth about what I see and I make opinions based on what I see to the level of knowledge I have. I resent any implication to the contrary.

I’m the 3rd owner of these. When I purchased them, there was no signs of any owner modification. Everything looks “original”. In fact, based on the difficulty in getting the back panel removed, I’m pretty sure it has never been taken off by anyone before I did it. There is no sign of being in a high humidity environment. The cabinets are all in excellent shape. So I’m not sure where the corrosion around the terminals came from? But the wiring seemed chemically attached to the posts through oxidation. I’m not sure there was solder even used on those 4 terminal connections. Everywhere else speaker wire was attached to something there is solder. the good news is that I was eventually able to get the speaker terminals removed from the plastic housing. I used a little hand hack saw on the speaker wire between the 2 nuts. I was able to cut all the way through one post and cut enough of the melded wire from the others where I could use 2 wrenches on opposite sides to get enough torque to turn the plastic outside out from the nuts inside. now I have the banana connectors out and I can put new ones in. But in order to get the back off to get access and to then remove the plastic box, I had to cut wires. I took a “before” photo. So hopefully I can get everything rewired back the same as it was. Honestly, I think bypassing the crossovers altogether and tramping with an active DSP is the way to go for me. I’d just like to have the crossover in tact should I ever wish to sell.

i think I’m screwed here. I cannot get the banana connectors out of the box. The wire is fused onto the post. Either they designed these connectors never to be taken apart or the design is poor to allow this level of corrosion after 30 years. Idk but I’m a bit miffed that I cannot fix something so basic as a banana plug. I suppose I can’t buy a replacement plastic box that fits. At this point I’m considering cutting a piece of wood to replace the plastic cover and buying new banana connectors. A dremmil saw tool would work to cut the old plugs and take them out. UPDATE I got the plugs out off the case using a hack saw! i think I need to make it crystal clear that these posts did not look like this before I started working on them to remove the posts that had corrosion on them. The corrosion was there. There was a lot of red dust around the post. This photo is after me spending 2 hours trying to get the nuts off. So what you see here was me using a lot of force trying to get it off. I used wrenches, pliers, screw drivers, wire cutters and such. I wasn’t try to salvage the posts so I couldn’t have cared less about the wire or post. The purpose of the photo was to show you where I was in the process, not to show how it looked from the factory. I thought that was quite obvious. Apparently not.

On the bass bin, I see signs of corrosion at the back end of the input connections. I’m have a tough time even getting the nut off the back. On the bass cap, looks to be in spec for the uF value. ESR is .22 ohm. Is that high? on the crossover network, there are 2 uF 50’s listed. But on the one big cap itself it says 100uF

I received my esr meter and learned how to use it. But after getting into the AK-3 crossover, it seems impossible to be able to test without cutting and stripping wires and resoldering. Klipsch seems to have the wiring to from the caps sealed up pretty good, making it difficult / impossible to make a connection for testing as is. Everything than can be soldered appears to be soldered. Even the tabs connecting the drivers wired from the crossover are soldered together. The is a far different experience that what I found inside my cornwalls, fortes and quartets where things like the wiring to the drivers were not soldered, nor the speaker level inputs to the crossovers. Is it common for this generation of khorns with the “monster cable” wire to be buttoned up this much?

After adding a delay, things started sounding better to my ears. Then I made some crossover changes in the dsp. Then I tweaked some EQ settings and things are sounding much better for my setup. I’ve listened to a variety of 2 channel music, then I listened to some atmos music. That seems to be sounding exceptionally good. Things are looking up. thanks everyone for the ideas and such.

I found out that my current 2 by 4 miniDSP DOES have delay adjustments per driver available! If I were to go to the next model up, the 4 x 10, I can crossover all 3 drivers in the active dsp and have EQ and delay per driver. earlier I incorrectly responded it did NOT have delay abilities. In fact it allows for up to 9ms.

I can apply digital EQ at the preamp stage regardless of what type of signal processor is used or not used at all. This can only be done before the digital or analog signal processor splits by frequency. Do the AK3 passive crossovers have a delay in them? If horns need them, I’d assume this must be part of the klipsch active crossover design. I am using a miniDSP 2x4 HD. It offers 2 frequency separations per channel, parametric EQ per driver, a compressor per driver, and FIR filters per driver. I don’t understand FIR filters nor how to use them. This unit is pretty inexpensive. For more money you can upgrade the firmware and get more software for room correction EQ and maybe more features. I can do room correction by speaker at the preamp, but not down to the driver level. I have about another 10 days to return this miniDSP unit if I don’t want to keep it. They also make a larger model that would work for tri-amping. sometimes inexpensive means low quality. Sometimes it does not. just to be clear, previously in this thread have you identified the dsp crossover frequencies that should be used for a given speaker? Or have you listed actual processor units you recommend for consideration? I’d like to see both pieces of actually but it’ll be easier to find if I know what I’m looking for. I don’t believe my current sound is worse than before I was using the inexpensive DSP. But I’m not convinced it’s better either. It could be that if my crossovers are out of spec, I’m limited to their degraded quality and I’m not going to see any improvement or be able to judge anything until the crossovers are fixed or eliminated from the chain entirely. I should be able to test my crossovers by Wednesday or Thursday. So I’ll know soon enough. my feeling about upgrading electronics is that sometimes it’s best to go in stages and not wait until you can afford the best. In many cases, I’ll never be able to afford the best but I don’t think that has to limit me from getting something “better”. If you are saying an analog signal processor is not ever going to hear any improvement (or it would be worse) by using an analog signal processor even if I can do speaker EQ in the preamp stage, that’s one thing. But if you are saying don’t bother doing this because you should wait until you can afford the best or near best, that’s something entirely different and is simply a personal opinion. I appreciate your knowledge and insight even if i might disagree on items which are more subjective. So thank you for sharing.

Besides the possibility of re-capping, I’m also considering skipping the crossover altogether and tri-amping by using this. Any thoughts?

Has anyone used this (analog?) Signal processor to tri-amp? https://www.parts-express.com/Peavey-PV-35XO-Stereo-2-3-Way-Mono-4-5-Way-Crossover-248-8116?gclid=Cj0KCQjw9O6HBhCrARIsADx5qCSaYhzXqYFwaYEV8hFRAgEt-IUWMwuVHQRRzGKDT6PLlEta08TlivMaAo7OEALw_wcB Im currently using an active dsp but it only supports splitting 2 channels, not 3. Plus it offers no delay options. My understanding is this unit, while not computer enabled, can split the signal into 3 frequencies, has volume matching for each, and allows for delay by each (though I cannot see how yet). And it’s price is cheap. Does that mean this is not good enough quality to use as a 3 way crossover for a klipschorns?

I can do this. I’ve really been just making the physical mods to the right speaker because it’s easier to access. I looked at it the lower crossover and didn’t see any corrosion of it or of the upper one on the right speaker. I didn’t see any obvious signs of leaking or bloating on the caps either. But they have NOT been tested. I’m trying to borrow a meter. But no one has one. So I might just have buy one. Do you happen to know of any klipsch documentation on what the in-spec values should read for ak3’s should find a meter to test? I’ve searched online before and came up empty.

No, the dsp is splitting into 2 ranges, lows and everything else with some overlap. I can easily change this frequency in real time, solo both or just one channel with and without the bass. I’ve tested sending the full frequencies to to high ak3 and I cannot hear a difference. testing equipment might. But I cannot hear it. So for now I’ve pre cut out the low frequencies before the amplified signal goes to the ak3 upper crossover. why am I sending a cut signal only to be split into 2 by the passive ak3? Because I was told, read it several places, that it puts less strain on your amplifier if you remove frequencies you know you don’t need in the path later. I think this was even mentioned the pinned thread here about bi-amping. Your assumption that I was sending a full signal into the upper crossover makes me believe that what I’ve read and am doing might be the wrong thing?

Your room is similar in size to mine. I really have no choice but to leave mine placed in the location where they are in the 2 front corners. I'm trying to make them sound as good as they can in this room exactly where they are. When I had my cornwalls in this room, I felt no need to make any mods to them. The KH's definitely added a lot over the CW's but they really added to much. It would be like going from a mustang that you love to a Maserati that you love more but can't quite tame for your driving skills.

With the Active DSP that I currently have, and I've only had it a week now and am not sold on it, it is easy to change the crossover points and slopes. I am only bi-amping. So the upper speaker level signal is getting split by the AK-3 passive xover. I could eliminate this xover altogether if I tri-amped. I think I have the amp to do this. But I would have to upgrade my Active DSP to split the signal 3 ways. Now on to the bass passive crossover. Ive got a direct signal from the bass amp to the woofer, but I still have the crossover also hooked to the woofer on the original connector connectors. The strait wire is connected to the second set of tabs on the woofer. The woofer has 4 connectors on it. 2 were originally connected to the Klipsch crossover. I left them in tact and connected my own 2 wires to the previously empty set of tabs. The thinking for leaving the original connections is that I could switch back to the connections on the back of the klipschhorn box where the 2 original bass bin banana connectors are from two new bass bin connectors I added to the back / side of the the speaker so that a person could conveniently switch between a previously filtered signal back to an unfiltered signal and go back to the original bass crossover easily. The user just needs to connect only one bass bin at a time and make sure they correct the right one. But they would never have to unscrew the side/back panel to gain access and rewire the connections to and from the driver and the passive crossover inside. My question about this is if what I have done by keeping the passive xover connected to the driver only but not sending a signal through the driver from the outside, would this harm the passive crossover in any manner? Is my direct connection to the woofer going to also by passed in the opposite direction through the passive crossover and cause harm since I did not connect it from the driver? I don't have enough knowledge of electronics to know one way or the other and I didn't think about it until after I connected and tested on one speaker. My next question is about the AK-3 crossover settings and your questioning if I might be missing an entire range of frequencies from 400 to 1000khz. The shot answer is I should not be as I set them with overlap. But what are the recommended / factory xover settings for the AK-3? Preliminarily, I set mine by ear. I know this is faulty, but I set it up with overlap between the bass and midrange/highs. So what are the settings that Klipsch uses? And for tweekers, what do they set them at for all 3 pieces? The reason why I ask about all three is I think you may be correct that it best to just tri-amp and eliminate the old klipsch Ak-3 altogether. They are 30 years old. I have not tested them. But if they were not 100%, it would be less expensive to upgrade from 2 way active DSP to 3 way active DSP than to purchase replacement crossovers. Replacing just the caps is much less expensive but I do not have the soldering experience working with boards to feel confident on doing that. Anyway, if you or anyone has any information on all three crossover specs, I'd appreciate it.

In looking at those photos again, where are the speaker level inputs on the ones with the enclosed backs? my upper bins are actually pointed exactly to the primary listening position. But I was wondering how they could be adjusted if needed.

I just needed to pry off the plywood panel. It needed a bit of coxing.

this is not really an option for my room to place them anywhere except for the 2 corners where I have them. There are 2 corners and if they are not close to the corners they will block my projection screen. Now I could make sides like the new ones in the photos if that’s an advantage yet still be tucked into the corners. But I still need them up into the corners due to my room size and screen size.

I created my own thread for this question so as not to clog this one up with my offshoot

Someone put me out of my misery here please. I’m trying to gain access to the bass bin crossover in my ak3 1992 klipschorn. I took off the input panel but that doesn’t provide enough room. i can tell that the crossover is mounted inside to the right of the input connector box. That box is connected to a 2’x2k piece of plywood. I took out all 9 screws attaching the plywood piece that the ak3 is mounted to but that piece of plywood does not seem to be coming apart from the larger side piece. It’s like it’s glued down too. Is that piece not designed to ever come off? so my next option would be to remove the entire left side of the bottom unit. I didn’t count but it has about 2 dozen screws. Before I remove all of them only to find out it too does not detach, can anyone tell me if or if not this is the way to go to gain access to the lower ak3?

Before I go to the trouble to move my speakers out from the corner to bypass the bass bin crossover, can I get enough access to the crossover to disconnect the driver connection from the crossover just by removing this cover? Or do need to remove something else as well?