whell

"One model (which one of my friends still has) had a 'zero tracking error' tone arm. It's not a 'Linn', but certainly equal to Thorens middle-of-the-line TT's like a TD160, but with a some 'automatic features' such as lifting the arm off the LP at the end of the record. " Could you be referring to the Garrard line of TTs? They had the "zero tracking error" arm. I'm not aware that Dual arms had this feature.

The exact mement you decide to upgade to Rf-7's and sell your Rf-5's, please let me know!

Unfrtunately, it will likely sound terrible. The Rf-3 needs at least 12 inches between the rear bass port and the wall behind the speaker. Your RF-3's bass output will suffer tremendously with the set up you propose.

In simplest terms, tone defeat circuits are designed to route the signal from the source (CD, DVD, VCR, etc.) to the speakers in the shortest path possible, bypassing tone controls and signal processing circuits (Dolby processing, THX Processing, etc.) in your receiver. If the signal that is being fed to the receiver is stereo, it will remain a two channel signal with tone defeat on. If it is a 5.1 signal, it will stay a 5.1 signal, with no added signal processing (surround effect modes, etc).

Not a bad table to get you in the vinyl door. I've got an old Dual CS 504 belt drive that I picked up at a garage sale, and I'm keeping it as my back up TT. $40 for a Grado Blue cart, $8 for a new belt, cleaned and lubed it, and I was off to the races. Sounded pretty decent, too.

I'd stick with a Thorens, even if you were to increase your budget. If you find a TD-145 or TD-160 in good condition (not hard to find), you can then save the money and invest it in the cartridge, if necessary, or at least a replacement stylus. I just ended up with a TD-145 after doing quite a bit of shopping around. Its a great table. The Music Hall is a good table as well, and has the advantage of being available factory new. However, I've also found that most who purchased the entry level Music Hall table were disappointed in the cartridge, and usually upgraded that pretty quickly. In most cases, that is at least another $75 - $100 for a good cartridge, and might put you over your budget quickly.

Me thinks that one need not apply the full weight of the volume control to one's speakers to fully appreciate what one's speakers can do. Conversely, if one must apply the full weight of the volume control to acheive the full richness of sound, this might point to a lack of quality amplification. Also, members can only suggest components that they have had success with, but not what will sound good to your ear. The RB-5's are great little music makers, and are not terribly fussy about SS or tubes, but do need a good quality source. You did not mention what your budget was. Find a dealer that will let you bring the amp home to test, or failing that, the RB-5's could go with you to your dealer.

Me thinks that one need not apply the full weight of the volume control to one's speakers to fully appreciate what one's speakers can do. Conversely, if one must apply the full weight of the volume control to acheive the full richness of sound, this might point to a lack of qulity amplification. Also, members can only suggest components that they have had success with, but not what will sound good to your ear. The RB-5's are great little music makers, and are not terribly fussy about SS or tubes, but do need a good quality source. You did not mention what your budget was. Find a dealer that will let you bring the amp home to test, or failing that, the RB-5's could go with you to your dealer.

Scut is typically used as a reference to a short-tailed animal - such as a rabbit or a deer. Hmmm...a reference to an animals hind-quarters. This could be truly viewed as a derogatory remark.

Frzninvt: Hate to burst a bubble here but your Denon is using a ton of signal processing to convert a 2 channel signal into 7 channels, especially if the processing requires an analog signal to be converted to digital for processing purposes. If course I recognize that recording engineers use multi-track equipment to create a two channel recording. This has been the standard in the industry since the 1960's. However, the INTENT of the mixing process since stereo has been to acheive a multi-dimensional effect with two channels. To create 7 channels, the master tapes are re-accessed, and the recording is "re-engineered" to acheive a mutli-dimensional effect in 7 channels. Much of what is being made available now in mutli-channel music are re-issues of classic recordings, that were originally recorded and mixed for 2 channel. Few recordings were originally recorded and mixed with the participation of the artist with the intent of producing multiple channels (originally quadrophonic). Steve Miller's Fly Like and Eagle comes to mind as an example of something that has been re-released in multi-channel, and was originally available and recorded for quadrophonic reproduction. I own a few of these reissues, and I'm listening to then now in 5.1. While the presentation is unique, I don't think the presentation is beleivable, what with some instruments coming from behind me (when was the last time your were at a concert and the musicians were behind you?). Just my $0.02.

Still, its reproducing the music in a way that is not intended by the artist/producer/engineer, etc. If one enjoys the effect generated by the added signal processing, then more power to them. I guess that I'm a stick in the mud: don't want to add anything to the signal that is not already there, and getting the most faithful reproduction of the music.

I've seen folks posting that they are buying equipment/speakers to set up a 7.1 system. I have to ask (devils advocate, etc.): Why? I'm not seeing the software right now in the pipeline that justifies the expense. What am I missing?

---------------- On 6/16/2003 8:32:40 PM NOSValves wrote: Tom As a matter of fact I'd put the Denon by itself up against your Scotts That sounds like a challenge but who is going to be the fair panel of judges and who's speakers ? I'm up to your challenge anytime . I think you have never heard a Scott like when I get done with them ! How about we use my Lascalas I'm been wanting to haul them over to Alfredo's place to shake the rafters !! Craig ---------------- Craig - If Tom will ship the Denon to you, I volunteer to offer my ears as a judge for this contest. I think it would be a hoot. I propose we use your LaScala's as the speakers, and swap out the amps.

One question: I know the V15 III cartridge in this table is not new. It was likely installed back in the late '70's when this TT was originally purchased. Per the seller, who has been straight up with me so far, this table has snee very little use. How long should the cartridge be expected to last? Or can I just keep replacing the stylus as needed indefinately?

My intrests range from classic rock to jazz. Still, in all the 25 years that I have been seriously buying music, be it vinyl or CD, I've never bought DSOTM....until about a month ago when I picked up the 180 gram vinyl re-issue. Its superb music from start to finish. I hope you enjoy it as much as I have.

Update: The stylus I have is apparently not eligible for the Shure stylus replacement program. It is an aftermarket "generic" stylus, not made by Shure. I sunk all my spare $$$ into buying the Thorens, and I don't right now have the $100 + that the actual Shure replacement stylus going for. However, I was able to hunt around the net and found someone selling the "generic" replacement for $45 shipped. The guy who sold me the Thorens is going to chip in the $45 to cover the cost of the stylus, so I'll give it a whirl. This particular Ebay seller has been a joy to work with!! I was able to tinker with the bent stylus and straighten it out a bit. I don't want to use it too much because its not "perfectly straight", and there is a nasty crimp in the cantilever. Still, that Shure V15 III equipped Thorens already sounds better than than the Dual/Grado setup I have been using. This looks like it will turn out to be $$$ well spent.

mdeneen: The difference between the RB-5 and the RB-5II is the internal cabling. The II is cabled with Monster cable (Z cable I think).

Whose the retailer? If you're not getting the last pair in the house, I'd like to ****** another pair at that price.

It arrived today and I had a chance to play with it a bit tonite. First the bad news: the TT arrived with a 2 1/2 inch crack on the side of the dust cover in the rear. The stylus also was bent. The good news: I corresponded with the seller, and he is willing to work with me. I think Shure has a replacement program that would allow me to get a replacement stylus for $20. He said he would pick up the tab for that. More good news: the unit is otherwise cosmetically in perfect shape. It also functions perfectly. So...when I am able to pop the new stylus on there, I'll be able to give a full report.

Looks like we did about the same. My purchase price was a few $$$ less, but your purchase comes with a few more "extras". Here's mine: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3028887678&category=3283&rd=1 Keep me posted on how yours arrives and sets up.

Have been shopping for a TT to replace the Dual 504 that I've been using. Its been an OK TT, but my vinyl collection is starting to grow, as is my rekindled interest in vinyl. So, I took the plunge today and picked up a TD-145 on Ebay that appears to be in great shape. If I can believe the seller, it has also seen little use in its history. I selected this TT as a target for my TT shop-a-thon for alot of reasons, such as: - it fit my very limited budget - it has established an held a good reputation and a loyal following - it still seems to have an adequate availability of parts - value for the dollar puts it in a league with modern TT's costing considerably more - no shortage of info on the net (including this forum) on how to wring the last ounce of performance out of it So, I'm looking for it to arrive next week. It will be married to my Marantz MM 7000 integrated and my KG-4's. I'll keep you posted.

I'm confident that judging sales by activity in this forum will yield incorrect information. In fact, Klipsch is leveraging the distribution channels already in place for its speakers to expand sales opportunities for the Aragon line. It seems to be working.

Ask a question like this and you're bound to get 10 different answers. I won't advise you on which receiver to buy, but I might suggest finding a dealer that WILL let you take the unit home to test drive it in your listening room. This is not an unusual policy for a reputable audio store, and I won't buy certain types of equipment without taking it home. Call around. Unless you live in a rural area, you might have a dealer or two in your area who will accomodate you. It might cost you a little more than Best Buy, but you'll be satisfied that you spent your dollars wisely and got a piece that you can live with for a long time.

In fact, if you're connecting the DVD player to any of the components you listed, you will need to be sure that the player had good on-board D/A conversion. Looks like you're partial to NAD components. NAD, in fact, makes a very respectable DVD player with very good D/A conversion. Don't expect to fully experience "home theater sound", however, w/o the ability to process a 5.1 signal. You're existing equipment won't do that job. You would, at some point, need to add that ability to your system via an external Dolby Digital decoder, or a recevier or processor that can handle the decoding chores for you.

Picked this up on vinyl today on a whim. Set me back $20, but wanted to give one of these 'audiophile reissues a try. I played it tonight, I must say that I'm not sure what to make of it. For instance: Money: one of the "signature cuts" off the album, truly sounded as good as I've ever heard it. Low background noise, excellent separation, the music seemed to jump off the record, lots of great dynamics. Us and Them: 3rd cut, side 2, seemed to just lay there. Not nearly as dynamic. Still want to give it some more timeon the table, but I'd be interested if anyone else has checked this disk out.