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Tizman

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Everything posted by Tizman

  1. Do all amps sound the same? They certainly sound more the same than different pairs of speakers, but they don't sound exactly the same. This is so obvious to me that I find it hard to believe that anyone is arguing about it. I have, on numerous occasions, swapped five or six different amps through my system in the course of an extended listening/comparison session. The end result is that there are some amps that I prefer over others. This is my personal preference, and as such is entirely subjective. My criteria can be distilled, like other folks in this thread, to an emotional connection that I feel with the performers, and the degree to which it feels like there are actual people performing in front of me. My guess is that my preference is due mostly to the distortion spectra, and the presence or lack of crossover distortion in each amp. I build tube amps and I am biased, obviously, about them sounding better than solid state. That said, if I were to recommend a starter system for someone new to audio, I would recommend a solid state amp. Specifically, the Nelson Pass ACA (Amp Camp Amp) kit, which is a single ended Class A solid state amp that puts out 8 watts per channel and costs $327 plus a few hours for the simple build. For speakers, buy a pair of used Klipsch Heresy I or II. This combo should cost between $600 and $800, depending on what you pay for the Heresy speakers. I have a pair of Heresy II speakers that I used as my main speakers for a while, and they are without a doubt the best bang for the buck audio purchase I have ever made (thanks Geoff!). The ACA is the second best bang for the buck audio purchase. With the Heresy speakers, the ACA is dead quiet, and sounds very, very nice. Especially for the money.
  2. I used to think that most amps sound the same until I got my first set of of high sensitivity speakers (Quartets). Since then, My preference has moved towards low output single ended amps, mostly tube based, but some solid state. I now use 1976 La Scalas as my primary speakers. I have built many different DIY tube amps since then. Every time I finish a new one, I want it to be the best one I’ve ever made. That is often not the case. I sold a bunch of them because of having an obvious preference for certain ones over others. None of this process has been scientific in the least. I listen to my favourite music, and switch out the amps once in a while for a different one. In my limited subjective experience, SET amps sound more like real musicians playing music in front of me than other amps. My HT receiver is too noisy for critical listening. All of the T amps I own sound a bit flat and lifeless. My solid state Class A amps, a pair of Amp Camp Amps and a DIY Aleph J are almost as good sounding as my best SET amps, and the 25 watts per channel of the Aleph J comes in handy sometimes. They all sound a bit different, but the differences for me are more about perceived realism and noise levels than anything else. The other notable difference is in bass response. Some of my SET amps have good bass response, but none can compare to a high power SS amp. This alone would disqualify the SET amps for many people, but for me the realism of the rest of the spectrum takes priority. Using low sensitivity direct radiator speakers for comparisons instead of high sensitivity horn speakers flattens the curve drastically. Comparing amps on 86 DB/W/M direct radiator speakers is going to be much more difficult because these types of speakers necessitate using much more than the first watt for listening, thus flattening the differences between amps. Also, the lack of dynamics, at least in the DR speakers that I can afford, kills the enjoyment for me. Adding stages to the chain, specifically a preamp, has always worsened perceived realism in my experience. My high efficiency horn speaker/SET amp path is a narrow and precarious one. It’s annoying sometimes and very limiting with respect to choices. Especially speaker choices. However, I am the very happy owner of a pair of fantastic horn driven speakers, my La Scalas, because of it. To summarize, in my opinion, you can’t really compare amps without including the speakers being used as a part of the equation, and 105 DB/W/M all horn speakers will tell you much more about the differences than 86 DB/W/M direct radiator speakers will.
  3. I called Al, and he said that the crossover should work fine for my application. The swamper resistor will allow both 8 and 16 Ohm compression drivers to be used. Al also gave me some advice on component selection and layout of the crossover. He was very helpful, despite not knowing me from Adam and having nothing to gain from it. Thanks Al!
  4. Geoff: I believe that is the case as well. In the case of the crossover circuit in this thread, Al indicates on the schematic that the crossover is designed to take into account the 1 mH inductance of the K-33 voicecoil. The 15C has a .88 mH inductance. That said, the spec sheet for Klipsch woofers I found in these forums lists the inductance of all Klipsch woofers as 1 mH, which seems suspect. Also, the 15C is touted as an improvement over the K-33 by many in these forums, in different Klipsch speakers, without modification to the crossovers. This is also true for the K43. I’ll ask Al shortly....
  5. Deang: I can't seem to get his email link to work on my computer. I'll try calling him.
  6. Deang: I just didn't want to bother Al with this in a personal email. I will contact him though, as it seems that many of you feel that he would be okay with it. Thanks again!
  7. Mark1101: My understanding is that the 15C extends higher in frequency more cleanly than a K33, but that swapping a 15C for a K33 in a La Scala bass bin requires no other changes.
  8. Thanks for your kind offer Geoff! I have just started the build on the crossover contained in this thread... ...so I'll probably complete that first before I take you up on it. I was at A1 Electronic Parts last week and picked up 6 crossovers from a movie theatre redo that have tons of inductors and film caps that happen to suit this crossover design, so I figure I'll give it a go. I am also interested in combining the FH1/15C at a lower crossover point, maybe around 200HZ, with a pair of Audio Nirvana Classic 10s that I have...
  9. mark1101: "So..........what are you thinking about doing?" I have a pair of FH1 with Eminence 15C in them that I would like to combine with a pair of 511B Horns with Renkus Heinz SSD1800 drivers, using the crossover shown in this thread. The Renkus Heinz SSD1800 are 16 Ohm drivers instead of the 8 Ohm shown in the schematic in this thread. My understanding is that other than the impedance mismatch, the RH drivers are a good substitute for the Altecs shown in the crossover in this thread. I have read the Al K white paper on the swamping resistor, and it seems that this resistor will allow for a 16 Ohm driver to be used instead of a 8 Ohm without any other changes to the schematic. Also, It would seem that the swamping resistor will allow me to also change taps on the T2A without any other changes. I know very little about crossovers, and was hoping for confirmation of my understanding of the white paper from folks who understand this subject better than me. Thanks to everyone who has responded to my question!
  10. My apologies for attempting to bring this very old thread back to life, but I have a question with regard to using the crossover contained in this thread with a 16 Ohm driver on the 511B instead of an 8 Ohm one. My understanding is that the swamping resistor across the terminals of the 3619 transformer should minimize any issues related to doing so. This is based upon my readings of Al's posts in various forums. Is this correct? Would it be prudent to connect to different terminals on the 3619, or use a different resistor? Once again, my apologies.....
  11. Also, is the 100 Ohm resistor (in series on the switch) there to reduce the output of the 511B/902-8G to match the output of the FH1/15C? I have a spare pair of T2A on hand to drop the output as well if that works.
  12. Hi John. Thanks for the schematic and graph, and sorry about the delayed response. The RH SSD1800 driver is 16 Ohm in my case, as opposed to 8 Ohm for the 902-8G. If i understand it correctly, the output of a 16 Ohm driver will be 3 DB down from the response of a 8 Ohm driver in the same two way speaker if the crossover is changed to accommodate the 16 Ohm driver. Would this be a problem with the schematic you provided?
  13. Hi All. The cold weather has arrived, and its time to revisit one of the many projects that have spent the warmer months in my basement on hiatus. I would like to use the parts listed in the title to put together a two way speaker set. As per the title, these comprise a pair of FH1 bins with a soon to arrive pair of Eminence Kappa 15C, and a pair of Altec 511B with Renkus Heinz SSD1800 drivers. Some time ago, I tried to use a Behringer Super-X Pro CX3400 as an active crossover for these components, utilizing a DIY pair of stereo tube amps, but found that the noise floor of this setup was unacceptable as there was audible hiss from my listening position. Also, ignoring the hiss, my La Scalas sounded obviously superior. I have researched a number of passive crossover options, and would like your opinions on the two that I have narrowed it down to, as well as any advice you may have on the topic. I am currently looking at the ALK Engineering AP12-500 or AP12-600, or the Jean Hiraga inspired crossover (530 HZ) for Altec VOTT A7-500-8 contained in this link, http://www.vtaf.com/id107.html (modified to take into account the Kappa 15C's 4 Ohm instead of the contained schematic's 8 Ohm woofers). The attraction of the latter Hiraga inspired crossover is that it includes a filter that will flatten the dropping frequency response of the 811B/RH SSD1800 combo, while the ALK AP12 is a proven product that is in more in line with a normal Klipsch Heritage crossover. It is my intention to DIY the crossover for these speakers. Any input/advice you may have on these two choices, and any opinions as to the suitability of the Hiraga inspired VOTT crossover, would be much appreciated.
  14. That's fantastic Marvel! Thanks for the spec sheet. If Altec used 500 HZ as the crossover frequency for the 511B, that's good enough for me.
  15. Thanks for the graphs, data and links. It would appear that a 500 HZ crossover at 24 DB/octave on my 511B is a safe bet with the Renkus-Heinz SSD1800-16 that I have on hand. Maybe 600 would allow for a little more safety margin if I use 12 DB/octave? From memory, the GPA 902 are just over $200 each. I'm going to use the R-H drivers for now, but the GPA 902s will probably be my next purchase. It seems that the R-H driver is rated for 500 HZ with respect to frequency range.
  16. Deang. I do see the problem. Makes sense. Assuming the horn is properly loading the driver at a certain frequency, would it be okay to use this lower frequency for the crossover? Specifically, would the 511B properly load a compression driver at a 500 HZ crossover?
  17. Thanks for the link and crossover design JohnA. My primary concern with a higher crossover point has to do with how the bass bins I own will perform at this higher crossover point of 1000-1200 HZ. It would appear that the FH1 would fare better than the La Scala bass bin, based upon what I have seen online, and assuming a driver swap in the FH1s to K-33 drivers. So what's worse, running a bass bin meant to be crossed over at 500 HZ at 1000 HZ, or running an HF driver meant to be crossed over at 1000 HZ at 500 HZ? It would seem that using the lower crossover point on the HF driver would be better, as indicated by Radian including that option in their spec sheet. It seems that Radian specs the lower HF compression driver crossover based on their released frequency response figures for each driver. I get the impression that pretty much all HF drivers are marketed/sold for pro PA use. I will be using these drivers at fractions of the wattages they are intended for and this is why I'm asking the three questions in the first post of this thread. By way of example, if an HF compression driver that is specified to be used at 1000 HZ @ 12 DB/octave @ 25 Watts is used at 500 HZ @ 12 DB/octave @ 5 Watts, would that result in excessive distortion? 5 Watts going to a HF driver of 110 DB/W/M efficiency would result in bleeding ears in my listening room. I can pretty much guarantee that any HF driver I use of similar efficiency would rarely get more than 2 watts. This is probably a lot more than is likely to happen in my situation. A 2 Watt per channel amp, of which I have several, is just loud enough in my room with my La Scala speakers. Two Watts total including the bass bins.
  18. I am aware that the 811B will only do 800 HZ. It would be somewhat easier to find a driver that will do all the HF from 800 HZ and up, but choices are still limited, with most HF drivers being specified as over 1000 HZ. The drivers frequency ratings are, as you mentioned, another relevant factor that I wasn't thinking about in my first post. I suppose that is what explains the differences in the deratings of the Radian drivers used as examples above. At any rate, if an active crossover is the only viable option, that will do. My questions all relate to what is safe operating parameters for HF drivers run at lower crossover frequencies. Distortion, while obviously a factor that needs to be considered, is not what I am asking about. What constitutes acceptable levels of distortion is mostly a matter of personal opinion. Also, doesn't a typical quality compression driver have much less distortion than a regular cone driver? If more distortion is created as a result of a lower than specified crossover frequency for a HF compression driver, would that distortion be more noticeable than the distortion created by running a horn loaded bass bin at a higher than specified crossover point?
  19. Hi All. This thread relates to whether or not a rule of thumb can be established for safely lowering crossover frequencies by increasing crossover slope and/or reducing the wattage specification of HF compression drivers. I am currently stuck in a never ending search for a reasonably priced 1" throat compression driver that can be crossed over at 500 HZ, in a two way speaker system. I have another thread in these forums that has progressed to the point where I have a few general questions about HF compression drivers and their crossover specifications. I think that answers to these questions would be beneficial to anyone who finds themselves in a similar situation as myself. The following are my questions: 1. If a compression driver is specified as having a cross over at, for example, 1000 HZ @ 12 DB/octave @ 100 Watts, what would be an acceptable crossover frequency at 24 DB/octave? 2. If this same compression driver is operated at, for example, 50 Watts maximum, would a 500 HZ @ 12 DB/octave be okay to protect the driver from damage? If not, what might be a more acceptable safe wattage at this particular crossover frequency and slope? 3. If, like myself, you use DIY SET tube amps of between 2 and 8 watts, and have no intention of ever exceeding 25 Watts (I have a DIY Aleph J in the works), what does the specification of 1000 HZ @ 12 DB @ 100 Watts mean to my choice of a 500 HZ crossover point at 2 Watts maximum, 8 Watts maximum, and 25 Watts maximum? I am not sure what percentage of the wattage available in my amps will actually go to the HF compression drivers, but I would imagine that most would go to the bass bin. There are some manufacturer's spec sheets that give a clue to what the answers might be, as is the case in the following two Radian spec sheets, but it seems that Radian is the exception when it comes to showing this specification. Also, there is not a consistent change with respect to the rate of change in the crossover specifications for these two drivers. For example, the specification sheet for the Radian 651PB/760PB/850PB shows 1200 HZ @ 12 DB and 500 HZ @ 24 DB at 50/60/75 Watts respectively, while the 450PB/465PB/475PB sheet shows 1200 HZ @ 12 DB and 800 HZ @ 24 DB at 25/35/35 Watts respectively. http://www.usspeaker.com/radian 760pb-1.htm https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/manufacturer-specifications-44920.pdf At the moment I am at the beginning of putting together a two way speaker system with Peavey FH-1 as bass bins (they were delivered earlier today), and Altec 511B as a HF horn with Renkus-Heinz SSD 1800-16 compression drivers. I have a Behringer CX3400 on loan that has 24 DB/octave slopes, but I may go passive or choose a different active crossover when I get my own. I also have Altec 811B horns, which I would like to combine with a DIY bass cab to create a two way. I would also like to acquire either a Klipsch K510 or K401 in the future, and I will need 2" throat compression drivers for these horns, which will be used with either the bass bin portion of my La Scalas, the FH-1s, or the bin I build for the Altec 811Bs. Having the above questions answered could, depending on the answers, greatly expand the choices of compression drivers that would be appropriate for these builds. Thank you in advance for any information/answers that you can provide to these questions. Tiz
  20. I didn't realize that the Behringer only delayed the bass section. I will be using 511Bs with the FH-1s. Assuming that I adjust for the delay by physically aligning the drivers, what does that look like? With respect to the delay, the 511Bs are about 1.5" shorter than the LS midrange horns. The Behringer is a loaner and, at around $200 CAD, is a reasonable solution if workable, but the delay only working on the bass makes them less attractive. If adjusting the 511Bs physically allows them to sit on the bins in an aesthetically acceptable manner, I may still pick up the Behringer for myself. This is obviously going to be a personal call, but an idea of where they would need to sit would be helpful. Are there any other crossover choices that might be reasonably priced and more acceptable choices than the Behringer? Also, would a regular passive crossover be an acceptable choice if physical alignment is acceptable? I have been looking at doing a DIY version of the ALK AP12 crossover in 500 or 600HZ, or another simple 12 DB/octave crossover instead of going active. Do you have any recommendations with respect to going passive? There is also a passive Jean Hiraga version of a Altec crossover that helps compensate for dropping HF response in a two way, that I have looked at. I use DIY tube amps that put out 2 to 8 Watts, and would use two stereo amps with an active crossover. Thanks in advance to any advice and information!
  21. It looks like I have managed to source a pair of FH-1s locally before my plan to build the California's got started. I await their arrival on Sunday. I have a pair of 511Bs and a pair of 811Bs, and I have a pair of Renkus-Heinz SSD 1800-16 also due to be delivered shortly. I am going to borrow a friends' BEHRINGER SUPER-X PRO CX3400 to play around with as soon as I get everything together. I would appreciate any comments that you all might have on these choices, and especially on the Behringer, as my friend really likes it, but it seems to get some bad press.
  22. Thanks jimjimbo and djk for the clarification on how to use the existing AA components to drop the midrange. I'm goint to put it on a switch and see how it works out. On a switch, I can have it both ways. Switching the capacitor value and using a different tap on theT2A is more like the original configuration's setup, so I will try that first.
  23. Hi All. Is there any consensus on the best way to modify an AA crossover in a La Scala to bring down the squawker levels? I would like to add a switch to the crossover to flip between the stock AA configuration and a modified version that drops the squawker down by utilizing the existing T2A transformer. I would prefer to keep the existing crossovers as they are and create a little supplemental crossover with the switch and any other required components separate from it. I understand that the T2A is limited to 3 DB increments. Any advice would be much appreciated.
  24. Thanks for all the responses and all the excellent information contained within them. I am leaning towards the California at the moment. I'll probably get someone to build the bass bins for me rather than do it myself. Thanks Moray for the plans of the design. I am hoping that the person that makes them for me, who is a great carpenter, will be able to decipher the plans, as they seem fairly straight forward. Moray, if there are any additional plans, or if you have found any photos, that would be much appreciated. Also, would you happen to know what frequency the California can be crossed over at, and how low it goes? .
  25. I might add the bracket between doghouse and side panels, but my preference would be to leave my LS as original as possible. I would like to DIY an all horn speaker. I asked about the ramp because I like the look of the bass horn in a La Scala. The FH1 has the same look as an LS. The wider the range of the bass bin, the better, and the California has that. I would like to DIY the horn for the higher frequencies as well. I'll probably make it out of wood and shoot for a crossover frequency of around 400 HZ. The diy paper horn project at Inlow Sound looks interesting as well. Thanks for the links Moray. Are there photos of the California?
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