ATLAudio

But did you have to spend $7,500 to have an amp not hum? More on that... Again, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The claim which companies like Line Magnetic are making is that their product produces a quality of sound that is superb, and that this quality of sound also takes $7,500 for you to own. Does that that not give you pause? Thats 15 times the cost of the Emotiva. 15 times the cost of the Emotiva which might have been broken, and easily repaired and or replaced many times over for a fraction of the cost of the LM. As there are 100s of amps still a fraction of the cost of the LM, yet more than the Emotiva. When you asked yourself, why do I have to spend that much money on a product? Are there any cheaper alternatives? Nothing came up? It wasn't just guys on AudioGon Woomart helping you spend your money, right? Thats all I want people to ask, and please show me when they figure it out, when they buy exotic priced audio gear, what's the secret sauce. Why is spending $7,500 the only way? A cheaper option can't possibly exist? This has nothing to do with using your ears, spec sheets, or any other cliched bs. I'm nearly certain that the LM sounds fantastic, maybe even better than the Emotiva. But, sound quality is not the entirety of the claim here.

I think that the Yamaha integrates are just as good and cheaper pound for pound.

I certainly would feel an amp that hummed would be inferior to one that didn't. Doesn't take specs to figure that out.

Like PWK said, shouldn't flat frequency response be a sought after goal in sound reproduction? Maybe that's why he ditched tubes in the 70s. I had a hum on my Emotiva that went away with a better RCA cable. Also, if anything else uses that circuit, ensure it has a good ground. Ceiling fans are notorious for slowly shaking loose their once good grounds. Call Emotiva, they can lead you through troubleshooting, something might be wrong with it.

I'm willing to bet that they were more appealed to the magical properties of slapping a tube on anything and it becoming sonic nirvana.

Absolutely. I love the look of Audio Quest stuff, but it's pure voodoo, and way to expensive for just how it looks.

I feel like from a pure marketing "Keeping up with the Joneses" way everyone offers bi-amping terminals. Most manufacturers don't try and extol on it's "supposed virtues." That said I didn't realise that the RC-64 II had bi-wire terminals. How ridiculous... Still a great center channel... but wow... There's no end to the things which are measurable which don't have a sonic effect that's noticeable, and many the snake oil salesman use that in this industry. I was trying to give an example.

Keep in mind that this is a speaker company's website. Also just because something is measurable doesn't mean that it provides a sonic benefit or detriment. ie. THD of .001 vs .1

You're right, change a speaker into a series circuit I should say. Bi-Wiring doesn't CHANGE the structure I should have said.

Also how you position your sub matters too. A sub in a corner will help with impact and SPLs, prefered for HT, but taken away from boundaries and you might see similar bass characteristics as your cornwalls. My PSA XS15SE are incredible at this compared to going full range with my RF 62 IIs.

Nope Nope Nope, and more Nope Bi-Wiring a speaker is not a series or parallel wiring circuit. Not in this universe.

I know exactly what you're talking about and correct me if I'm wrong, but is it that electric bass growl? Yes, smaller woofer drivers in speakers handle this better, but here's what I know. Open E (40hz), and A (70hz), the two larger strings, don't resonate growl quite as much as D, and G, so that's another reason why I never go higher than 80hz for my sub. With some tweaks, and adjustments I've used to get the best of both worlds. Here are a few ideas to try if you haven't already. Play with moving the Cornwall away from the wall, a foot or two, this will help with lower end harmonic resolution. Perform a sub crawl using music with your favorite bass riffs, and the speakers unplugged. Completely different music, but it works; I use Dire Straits "So Far Away" entry bass notes for this test. I'm trying to hear more musical bass from my subs, not just SPLs. Try and get the sub about a half foot or more away from boundaries too. Use Audyssey Dynamic EQ at -10, or -15 trim

There is nothing from scientific measurement to suggest a Yamaha is bright on Klipsch. With most of those integrates you lose bass management.

"Woofers are not the same as subwoofer drivers and can produce bass much lower and cleaner." YMMV A LOT; I wouldn't take this to heart. There's nothing wrong with using passive bi-amping, and yes there's some science to support it. I'd stop short of going out and buying two huge expensive mono blocks per speaker without a very good return policy.

The fact that you've tried every phono stage ever made is irrelevant to my point. My Point is that you won't answer simple questions, that is when approached with exotic priced gear for something so simple as a phono stage, why is it necessary? What's the secret sauce? You don't approach it critically because you're singing their jingle, listen to your ears while your brain falls out. Anyone, and I mean ANYONE who insists on a $1k phono stage has NO IDEA about the science behind making one or they wouldn't buy it. I never gave the exotic wire the time of day because I bother to ask questions about the science. I appreciate science and the scientific method and things like ABX as incredibly power discovery tools which you reject without the slightest explanation, but further name calling. You then belittle those who support basic scientific approaches as "True Believers" or "Acolytes," trust me, this only makes me more comfortable in our disagreement. You have no answers, and based off what I've heard so far, I'm comfortable in assuming that it's because you haven't bothered to ask those questions in your long storied 40 year history of audio.

Yes, if it's a dual mono design, that'll work great! Make sure you level match before you test. Why do you want your speakers to handle bass above 40hz? Rooms behave in such a way that the best place for your towers almost always isn't the best place for bass as high as 80-100 or even 120 hz. A lot of research has been done on this and the leading target is around 80hz, which is why you hear so much being said about it. That's a very well designed sub as well with very good control. Another thing you lose with a cross that low is the ability to shelf your bass dynamics. Blind listening tests have found that most listeners, self-described audiophiles, and casual listeners alike, prefer bass below 100 hz up to 10 dB louder than the rest of the sound. Having a sub crossed over at around 80-100 hz gives you more control here.

There should be line out LR which you'd go to line to the SVS sub. You'll want to adjust your SVS crossover so you don't get muddy double bass. Doing so will likely see you crossing at 60hz or lower which isn't using that sub to its fullest extent, but it will work. But like I said, the advantage the marantz has is an active crossover built in which changes the roll off for the speakers AND the sub. Does the Marantz have line outs? If so, instead of buying that company's integrate you could get their power amp, and use the Marantz as a preamp.

No, bi-wiring does not turn your speaker into a series.

You still can't answer a single question of mine because you've never asked questions to yourself. You clearly have no idea why it's absolutely necessary to buy a $1000 phono stage because you're so divorced from critical thinking. That's all I'm seeing here. This isn't about my way or the highway, it's that your way has logical pitfalls which I've pointed out, and you can't defend since you never questioned them.

That being the case, I'd look at the Pro-Ject phono stage, $100 out the door. If I was to go ALL OUT, NAD makes one with a USB out for recording and a gain knob for adjustments if you want to adjust the line level for longer cable lengths, and or to level match to other sources, like a CD Player. If you did use your AVR for 2 channel, you wouldn't be the first one I know. I got a bud who uses a NAD T777 for just this purpose. I like that you get an active crossover for bass management to a subwoofer; something that too many pre/integrates don't provide.

“Who is claiming anything?” You responded back to ME that there is benefit in buying an exotic phono stage costing several hundreds or 1000s of dollars as long as he swaps out in home demos until he’s satisfied, and ignore the science, and doesn’t use his brain to ask the obvious questions. “All I have done is urge @jkull to audition prospective phono stages in his system and trust his own ears. What a concept. I’m urging science, blinded by personal bias and when given an extraordinary claim, that a relatively simple construct, a phono stage, need to cost several hundreds or thousands of dollars that it’s perfectly rational and logical to demand extraordinary evidence to support such a need “Please allow me to clarify my positions so that they are perfectly clear:” 1) “I do not believe in ABX testing.” Wow… Do you believe science is some sort of liberal conspiracy? So you dismiss scientific study with proper controls, like for bias. You do approve of testing different products to your own admission, you said so. But what do you gain by peaking at the name plate badge of the equipment? Or knowing anything else about it? Moreover, who has the best benefit not to ask critical questions, you or the manufacturer? 2) The only person who I have to satisfy with my system is me. Calling BS here… When you respond to ME, with YOUR ideas and claims, then I will respond BACK. If you are so satisfied and convinced, why not move on? 3) With all due respect, I do not need a crusader to tell me what I should and should not like. See above 4) I have kept my own counsel regarding my systems and have been enjoying myself immensely with audio for over 40 years. OK? So you’ve gone 40 years without asking any critical questions to justify your exotic gear purchases? This is a feather in your cap? 5) I get it....you appear (from your signature) to agree with Peter Aczel where tubes are concerned. I do not. Another topic, off topic from the OPs question, so I’ll leave it there. Of course the industry knows that there are suckers who will mess their pants if they just “slap a tube on it,” for anything including phono stages. “Now I would normally say that we will have to agree to disagree but that is usually not acceptable to ABX True Believers.” ABX True Believer? lol Did you learn anything about the scientific method? Call me a true believer any day because the alternative to the scientific method is clearly shown in your post. Don’t ask questions, don’t control for assumptions, use your gut. This isn’t the approach your brain surgeon will use, she will rely on blind testing. “To many of the True Believers that I have exchanged pleasantries with on the 'Net, it is usually ABX is the only way and everyone else is wrong.” Awww you got a cute name for those who simply question your claims. At the end of the day ABX testing is how real testing is done. For me, knowledge about the concept, cost demands and claims from the manufacturer determine its absolute necessity. The more extraordinary the claim then the more extraordinary the evidence needs to be. I found that what my AVR provided for the price didn’t need extraordinary evidence explaining. “Personally, as previously stated, I audition a new component in my system over time. If I listen to more music, it stays. If less, it goes.” A testing system which doesn’t control for bias and outlying factors. A testing system which doesn’t promote critical thinking. However, it’s a testing system which you do approve of, so what do you gain from peaking at the manufacturing badges, and seeing if there’s a tube slapped on it or not? Do you enjoy the comfort of not asking critical questions? “Music, to me, is an emotional experience. The reproduction of music, how it touches the soul, can't be quantified with specs and measurements. You either feel it or you don't.” Paraphrasing PWK here, but what makes a product different CAN be measured, because otherwise how would a manufacturer know if they HAVE the product or not? “That is why I drive my La Scalas with 845 based SET monoblocks and play my records through tube phono and line stages. That's what works for me. If another path works for you, that is wonderful and I am happy for you.” There is firm science what makes this approach different from a cheaper, more efficient, and more powerful solid state amp, and there’s a cheaper way to achieve exactly what you have, but again you want to listen to your ears and let your brain fall out, to your wallet’s detriment. “I hope that @jkull auditons several different phono stages, both tube and solid state, trusts his own ears and keeps the one that best meets his needs.” And since he posted in a public forum for advice I asked a simple question which you’ve run interference on twice now. Who’s on a crusade again?

The gains from passive bi amping are modest, but measureable, and depending on your set up, quite noticeable, or completely undetectable. Dismissing it as fools bi amping is obtuse to say they least. If you have unused amp stages and extra speaker wire hanging around, why not experiment with a relatively free mod? We're not talking about exotic priced wires or such. Moreover, I don't see the point in coming up with a situation to paint it in the worst possible light that's not relevant to someone else's set up.

Without going into the details, computers are fragile houses of cards compared to the brick house audio components.

I'll let science be my guide which allows me to account for my own personal bias and rationalization. You can build your own phono stage with parts from a radio shack; the tolerances are beyond simple, so to say I need to blow a grand on one has me going for the BS pin behind the lapel. "Ears be your guide (and let your brain fall out)" is a marketing jingle which the exotic audio industry sings all the way to the bank. Doing this removes your inhibitions to question their BS, and their foot is now firmly in the door. Instead ask why I must spend an exhorbant price tag for their product and research that specific claim. I actually asked this and you didn't even bother to answer. Too busy singing their jingle I see. It's a catchy tune. Extrodiany claims require extraordinary evidence. Without blind experiment suggesting to the contrary I'm more than comfortable dismissing exotic priced phono stages, and suggesting others do so, without hesitation.

What's wrong with the phono preamp in your Marantz? NAD, and Pro-Ject make good ones for 100-200$ Spending a grand on a phono preamp is the best example of snake oil I can think of. The science and engineering of taking the information off of your record and amplifying it is an incredibly simple and straight forward process. On one hand the analogue purist touts this simplicity as a benefit for using it as a source but then quickly develops amnesia when glazing over exotic priced audio woo.