RSVRMAN
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Posts posted by RSVRMAN
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Welcome to the club 😉.
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2 minutes ago, babadono said:
Roger, and there is 15 dB avail. on the outputs too. IIRC
Correct. Roys settings allow for a minor DB bump on the output, which I did not touch. Bumping the input didn't increase noise floor and allowed me to adjust the gain all the way down on the amps. Win win! Learned something new as well on the Xilica.
What amps are you using on yours?
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5 minutes ago, babadono said:
Huh? Which Xilica do you have? My XP4080 has 15 db of gain available on both inputs and outputs IIRC. Shucks now I'm gonna have to go hookup this laptop and check.
Sorry read further posts now , I see you discovered that you CAN turn up the gain on the Xilica.
We are probably talking different things. On the Mixer, choosing the channel that goes to the output is adjustable and the max is 0.
On the input the max is 15DB.
I opened a blank XConsole to screen shot. ( For new Jube owners do not use these values as a reference)
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1 hour ago, The Dude said:
I tried to read as much that you wrote as possible, but unfortunately I am a little buzzed from gin and tonic so please excuse me if this has been covered. Your xls amps should have a sensitivity setting. Also, like Chris has mentioned most of your hiss appears to be from gain structure, something I've gone back and forth on, and to me its like fine tuning a carb. I adjusted the AVR or Pre/pro volume all the way up with the speaker levels up. Now this may not be accurate as you want the full voltage output possible without distortion from the avr, then increase gain on the main channel inputs of the electronic crossover until clipping occurs. There is typically a light that comes on when done so, which most newer equipment is fairly accurate. Then set the gain of the amp to highest adjustment until clipping, back it off a bit from there. Its a back and forth to get the most out of the gain structure without hiss.
There are a lot of folks who have a certain way to set the game. This is what has worked for me to get the best out of the system with minimal hiss. Those d75as are great amp and should have been more than enough, with clean power to boot. There are tools that can be used for this, oscilloscope, dvm, dd1 plus. But you can get close.
The pros will tell you why I am wrong and I can accept that, however, this is what I found works for me. Again, I feel its like fine tuning a carb.
Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
Great analogy. Tuned plenty of carbs in my past. I got the gains tuned the way I like it. I prefer to keep the gain as low as possible so the speakers are as quiet as possible when nothing is played. It also allows for a lot more volume control on the Prepro Marantz. Now I can go 80 and its beyond me wanting to be in the room. I dont need to go 98, as the higher voltage then puts the Marantz in distortion territory.
33 minutes ago, dtel said:I don't have a Xilica, but the Ev dx38 - preamp matchup had the same problem. Not enough line voltage between the preamp (consumer) and the DX (pro), I had to turn up the preamp to almost full to get a decent signal. The xilica CAN fix this the DX can't so I had to add a Art Clean Box Pro, it gives you a way to adjust the line level, it was just what I need and works great and dead quiet.
The DX works great but not nearly as fancy as the Xilica, especially with info like you posted, it's much easier to see what;s going on, but until this DX breaks I'll keep it.
I have a DC-One still sitting here and it has the same ability as the Xilica, just different menus. As I didnt use any gain on my D75a this was a new option on the Xilica I previously didn't know anything about or used. I've heard nothing but good things about the cleanbox and would have considered this as a first option if I couldn't bump up my levels.
I never had a DX-38, but compared to the electrovoice DC-ONE the Xilica seems to have a lot more options. More PEQ values, EQ values. It has more Outputs as well and the software is much easier to navigate. I did not notice any difference in sound from the two and got the Xilica for the sole purpose of having another output for future horn subwoofer.
31 minutes ago, The Dude said:As for your d75as, check and see what North Redding engineering can do. He customizes those amps for this sort of thing and so on. I ran the d45 until I felt I wanted more power, then moved to the Parasound HCA line, which has similar power but made for home audio.
Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
Is that the person that built "The Duke"? I had considered having a person repair them, but personally I feel I'm going to continue to have this issue down the road, as the amplifier is 20 years old. I just want things to work and chose new for the time being.
26 minutes ago, dtel said:Roy never added any PEQ to my 1502 amp, that surprised me since he told me to get a Crown 1002 which led me to believe he wanted to add some PEQ but no.
But also it's not Jube bass bins but MWM so it may be a little different ?
He wanted to add peq values to your DSP on the amp or on the DX-38? Assuming you are using the 1002 on the bass bins and what are you using on the horns?
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Well learned something new again. Babadono was correct. The input was too low on the Xilica. The Marantz can put out 2.4V but the Crown XLS amps would need their gains near maxed to achieve their max output. I bumped this up to +15 gain, which is maxed on all channels and was able to back the crown xls gain all the way down to about 40%.
Backing the gain down, I was able to get the horns to quiet down a lot. I was able to hear the airiness to within 6' of the mouth. I used the kid and he was able to hear it at 8'. I turned the amps on and off to see his accuracy. He has better hearing for sure. I then swapped in my D75a and I had to stand directly in front of the horn to hear it. Kid said he could hear it at 3'. The D75a is noticeably more quiet. I will say the airiness is pure and sounds more as someone barely blowing warm air on their hand and not the usual snake hiss. I've had the snake hiss on my RF7 which is rather unpleasant, the airiness does not bother me, which is the most important factor.
Now onto listening. Take this with a complete grain of salt, as this is not measured and I personally despise audio talk without measurements to back it up. So on that note I will say the D75a, even though it is solid state has a noticeable amount of character or rather color in its tone. Here is what I did. I matched the SPL levels by using the input level on the Xilica. I then put on a 2 hour Gregorian chant. (My neighbors are probably wondering when the goat sacrifice is) I then grabbed a 25' long USB cable and from my listening muted Left, then Right inputs on the Xilica. Back and forth I switched them to discern the difference. The nice thing about using this tune is there is continuous vocals and they always seem to be at the right pitch to discern any differences. As its repeated it's quite easy to tell differences.
What I did then was open up the GEQ and applied some EQ to the Crown XLS side. Switching it up, I was able to get very close after only about 20 minutes of listening. I will continue to dial them in for the time being. I'm a bit undecided on putting an EQ on things as it flavors the music and I've always tried to keep things pure, however the D75a has a coloration to it so maybe all along I've believed it was neutral, when it wasn't. So my thoughts now are that the Crown XLS is as flat, neutral as it comes. It seems pulled back and honestly boring. Which I see as a good thing for those that absolutely do not want to change their sound signature from upstream devices. It has really challenged my belief and will take some time to digest. Much like people that have very strong political views, change isn't something that happens overnight.
All in all I will say for those starting out, the D75a is an absolute hell of an amplifier for the price and pairing with Jubes. If mine weren't all failing in some way or another, or if I could buy a brand new one with all brand new capacitors across the board, new pots and silicon I'd have one in my hands tomorrow.
For now I will continue to dial in the XLS 1502. I've left the PEQ alone and just playing with GEQ to get the lower end up a bit as well as a few bumps midrange. I'm getting a lot more limiters lit up and I'm getting a LOT more slam now. Enough that I went outside to ensure it wasn't too loud going to the adjacent property. It's too early to tell on what I will do with the K402. If I'm not happy after all this, I will probably start considering tubes, as maybe I do prefer a little coloring to my music.
Thanks again to Chris and Babadono for the help. Hopefully as this thread/journey continues it will help others as well.
PS. Goat goes down at 7:00PM
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2 hours ago, Khornukopia said:
Have you operated your system with one D75a on a single speaker channel and one XLS1502 on the other speaker channel, for a direct comparison?
I plan to do this early afternoon.
1 hour ago, babadono said:I see some mute buttons red on the Xilica screen shot. Surely nothing is muted that should not be, correct? And the limiters are wide open? i.e. +20dBu. Where are your input and output gains set? And when you play a source what are the meters showing?
Your Marantz pre/pro should be able to put tons of signal into the Xilica.
That was when I was initially setting it up. Nothing is muted. I sent my file to Chris and screenshots for him to take a look at. He already replied that everything looks normal.
Attached are some screen grabs from my xilica. I have not touched the GEQ (input EQ). You can see all that per each channel each input is set to 0, which is max. My gain on the amps is 75% to max at 1.4V.
Xilica shows all meters green 1-2 bars when playing music. However, on the amps I'm only seeing one green bar when I have the volume at 90% output on the Marantz receiver, which I would think I would see those limiters a lot higher on the amps and is why I was thinking the amps weren't getting enough input volts.I'm currently taking a look at the dynamic controls on my Marantz as on AVS forum I saw a writeup on how it can affect output voltage.
Getting things crossed off on what it isn't, which is good. It just seems so flat and that I have zero slam on the lower end, which the D75a could do.
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46 minutes ago, parlophone1 said:
Stupid question - have you touched two knobs on XLS1502 ?
Matched the volume between amps and preamp?
Not stupid at all. I described that in my notes. They are at 75% as they are the gain controls.
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And the journey continues......
So tonight I got the 3 crown XLS 1502 installed and up and running to power my LCR Jubilees and it was a bit of a letdown. However, it's probably something I need to do or didn't do.
Random dialog with bits and pieces that will hopefully make a few pennies at the end.
I have low power.... and/or I'm finally going deaf....
Where I'm at. I still have the Marantz 7703, it is a pre-pro, not amplified. It is designed for the 1.4V and I believe can max at 2.5V. Volume goes from 1-98. There does not appear to be a switch, as the RCA is .775 and the XLR is 1.4V. I am using full XLR. This issue is found across the board from access my NAS, Movies, Airplay.
Still using the Xilica, I've rechecked and have the channels at max DB on the presets (mixer column) with the correct PEQ, crossovers etc. I have not touched the GEQ inputs and they are all still at 0. (I did have to reprogram from the beginning a few days ago as I lost all of my settings and presets)
All amplifiers are set on the 1.4V. They are set as stereo for each channel and I'm sitting at 75% gain. I have not tried to play music at the .775 setting, however when I switched one over, the compression driver had snakes coming from it that were about 15' long.
Wires all marked correctly triple checked. Nothing changed from before. Full XLR no RCA. Speaker wires standard 12awg. XLR Distances less than 6'. Speaker wire distances do not exceed 25'.
So, I've been using D75a amps for a long time now and still love that little amp, but felt it was time to get a little more power. It seems that the Crown XLS1502 would fill that niche for awhile. I would run the D75a at 50 percent gain and I could get to about 60 on Marantz volume pot before the red lights said to back off. Now this was loud. If I could get 25% more out of these amps Id keep them and be happy, but I want a little more. With the new XLS 1502, it shouldn't even be a contest on how much more power is available. Something just doesn't add up though. I'm sitting at the gain I posted above and at 90 on the volume, it comparable to my previous D75a at 60. Also at that high of gain I have an audible airyness from the compression driver. No hum , but it is noticeable at 6'. At 10' it goes away. I've turned off both the Marantz and the Xilica and unfortunately, there is zero change on the audible airy hiss. This is evident on all 3 amps on all 3 Jubilees. Thankfully my listening position, you cannot hear it. If it was an upstream issue, a cleanbox could solve this and may still be needed if the voltage is the issue. It just seems like when I have them going, it feels like something is holding them back. Much like my first experience where one of my channels wasn't up and I got beamed by a horn. (Oh yes, for those that remember. When I turned the power on everything was turned way down and I was still weak in the knees) I wouldn't call it muffled sound, but it just feels that way. The D75a is not forward, but its just right there. Also has no hiss at all.
There it is. I'm perplexed. But I've come to think it was possibly a setting in the xilica that I forgot to reprogram or that my Marantz couldn't adequately push the full 1.4v to these amps. Which a cleanbox can potentially do. Before I get into trouble I figured I'd post and see what other owners think. Maybe its an outlier I'm just not seeing. I was thinking of bumping up all the GEQ inputs as well, but I'm not sure if that layered approach would be good.
Or am I finally going deaf?
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On 8/6/2020 at 12:40 PM, Chris A said:
Consider what would happen if Mr. Guttenberg did listen to your dialed-in Jubs. He would most likely have two possible outcomes:
1) they sound terrible to him--like old PA horns, or
2) they sounded better than anything else that he's heard before.
Both cases are bad. In the first case, he would have dedicated the better part of a day to having to break the bad news to you (and he produces at least one YouTube video per day, plus writes for a magazine). This would be a lose-lose proposition.
However in the second case, I think it would be much worse (for him). How could he put any image of them on his daily video, telling his subscribed following that they probably were the best sounding loudspeakers he's ever heard (...and there's good reason to suspect this will be the case, as you probably already know, Erik). He's already gone out on the limb supporting CW IVs, etc. He would potentially lose a part of his audience if he did this because of the people that shop for loudspeakers by the way that they look instead of the way that they sound.
Or he says nothing online. That's not good--in that word may get around that he's pushing only smaller loudspeakers that home hi-fi loudspeaker companies make, and isn't an "honest broker". (This is worse than having to tell you that they're terrible sounding, I think.)
I suspect that he's waiting until Roy dresses them up a bit so he can say that he's heard another "good home hi-fi product from Klipsch". Then go on to say that "they're not for the common audiophile (or words to that effect) to dismiss them for the rank-and-file audiophiles he's basically talking to online that buy small loudspeakers based [basically] on looks alone.
Chris
Agree completely, sadly is often the case with YouTube reviewers. I really appreciate reviewers (project farm, AVE) that solely do patrion and don’t shill for companies or even YouTube views.
One thing I wish someone from this forum would do is a really detailed and in-depth discussion of their Jubilees. Discuss the whole process top to bottom, what goes into installing them and then finally an audition with some really good camera work.
While klipsch could setup a dedicated room and fly in some popular reviewers for these speakers to write reviews for the 75th’s this can sometimes backfire as it’s “promoted” content.So here’s my idea, as I enjoy his videos and enthusiasm. Let’s fly Youthman (Michael) to do a review with one of the pros here on the Jubilees. He’s well spoken, knows how to edit and do great shots. My vote would be pair him with you as I don’t think anyone can explain them better. (Klipsch can secretly fund the plane tickets for this black ops project).
The forums are great, but having a video like this could really help out Jubilee recognition.
Regardless of whom it is, I’d really like to see someone do this, especially if they have a dedicated and well setup listening space.
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Been waiting on ncores to drop in price and potentially mature for 3 years. As it hasn’t happened, I’m moving on from the d75a.
I unplugged the Xilica that hasn’t been shutdown for a year and for some odd reason I lost all presets. I swore I saved the Xdat file, but I can’t find it anywhere. My big mistake that I won’t do again. I haven’t done this in a long while but I was using Roys settings.
I set it and let it be, funny as now I’m relearning again. Will be exciting to get the new crowns running. My bass bins have never seen anything more than 25 watts..... now they will have a lot more power.
noise complaints in 3.... 2.... 1
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Sorry, I couldn't resist.
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So I've been catching up on the forum, been absent for awhile and suddenly I come across this.......
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On 7/23/2020 at 6:38 PM, Deano1974 said:
Thanks guys, my supplier is liaising with Roy, as to the correct configuration for home jubilee,
appreciate all your help,
Cheers
Deano
Sooooo did you order them? All 3 👍
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8 hours ago, IndyKlipschFan said:
I have a pair of Jubilees, what I am now doing is looking at center options. I'd like to take the Belle and cut out the mid-high section and put the 510 there. Aesthetically that might be better, at least for me, than the La Scala.
So the quest then is to find a middle Belle or La Scala in average to good condition to paint that black industrial paint on them to match the Jubilees!
Have a pair as well. Bought LaScalas. Tried to use the LaScala center. Was very obvious it wouldn’t work. Bought 3rd Jubilee. You just cant beat matching LCR.
edit: I do still have plans for them. Don’t hate 🥴
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Having gone down this path and also an owner, there is a reason everyone is running active. Probably near 1000 pages of info at this point.
Subscribing though because I’d like to see this ones journey.
Also another can of worms... start reading audio science review (ASR) forum if you really want your analog perceptions challenged or rather measured 😁
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Thanks for posting.
“”Crickets on the News postings on this forum””
hopefully well I’ll get some info soon
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Can't believe I missed this thread. Nice work as always Chris. It's amazing over the years the amount of information that has accumulated for Jubilees. There was a large amount of data a year prior to my purchase, which helped immensely and it just continues to grow. From my general browsing from here and other forums, I don't believe I've ever seen a larger support group dedicated to a single speaker other than the Jubilee.
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Good for her. I don’t think there’s anything odd or wrong about that at all. We’re currently house shopping again and it isn’t the 1st priority, but it is up there to have a certain sized room that will be dedicated for music/theater. When lots of homes have the corner windows or a fireplace in the center just like the house pictured in the video we cross it off.
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13 hours ago, Schu said:
We definetely chewed some of the same pavement then... I knew Amari well because I used to live in Irvine, ca.
Oh yes, countless threads to go through. I remember doing all the little mods I believe his name was Clarke? Was almost 14ish years ago? Removing weight from fly wheel, airbox mod flapper valve, the rear brake boiling to 5.1 and various mods to keep the clutch from getting air in it having to re-bleed. I remember Amari's posts as well. Never met in person as I was in MN, but read a lot of their suggestions. I think it was clarke that turned me to the tigcraft exhaust above. I did a few group buys as well, one was the smoked lenses above. Fun times, funny how small the world is.
4 hours ago, Born2RockU said:CONGRATULATIONs on their safe arrival !
~ I am curious of the size of the room (W x L X H )
~Have you prepped the room acoustically, ... before their arrival ?
~Also, what components are you going to use ?
This is exciting, for sure.
~Enjoy the process.
Thanks! I have a few panels that are on the wall for temporary purposes. The new room slightly bigger than my old room, but opens up into the kitchen and no corner wall for imaging on one side. I already had the L & R, for a year or so, but just got the center channel. I was using a DC-ONE, but recently bought a xilica instead as I needed more inputs/outputs. For the time being I'm using D75a amps. One per jube. Using same Pre as you 7703 Marantz. Source is FLAC from my NAS.
Since we are planning to move either very soon or in about a year, I'm not going to spend too much time with customization. When we do move I will have a more permanant spot for many years. At that time I'm prepared to do all of the acoustic changes necessary, even if it means hammering or making walls. Horn subs will be added and so will my la scalas for surround.
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Yup kept this tag as it kind of stuck since my days over at the AF1 Aprilia Forum. I had always dreamed of the Nera. Never got to see one in person. It was twice the price of the RSV if I can remember. I'll bet it becomes a collector someday. I had the RSV 2004 grey with blue rims and then later traded for the 2007 factory R pictured here. Lots of track days on both bikes. Still think it was the best sounding bike out there if you put on a full system. I sold it in 2012 still miss it.
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Arrived safely and undamaged late last week. I unboxed on Monday. Will post pics when I get them a bit more in place.
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On 2/13/2019 at 4:55 PM, MenloBob said:
Are you still in California? I'd love to hear LRC Jubes..
I am in the bay area. I will do auditions in about another year once I have a better permanent install for them and I don't have a crazy person next door.
On 2/17/2019 at 9:29 PM, Schu said:Did I really just buy a Ferrari to drive around in a parking lot.
Aprilia (RSVR). Bike didn't have to leave the garage and my wife enjoyed it.....
17 hours ago, Born2RockU said:ROOM TREATMENT is more than 50% of the equation.
You can own the worlds greatest equipment and have the most professional tuning equipment, ...and you are still at WAR with the room.
Priority ONE after purchasing fine equipment... room treatment !
~Enjoy the Process !
-Rock on... Craig
So much this. I have some DIY panels that help immensely, but cant wait to have a final room I can really dial in. Carpet as well.
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On 2/8/2019 at 4:10 PM, Kalifornian said:
Planning on 2 way jubilee later this year. Currently using La Scala in dedicated treated listening room. Its 13x11x10....is the jube gonna work??? Too much?
You will find that they actually perform spectacular in a small room. I recently moved and now have them in a much larger room with very tall ceilings. In the event you move they scale beautifully as well as I found out.
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Anyone going to axpona in Chicago?
in General Klipsch Info
Posted
What’s this little guy? Looks like a 1U D75 amp?
Can you share a little more on this piece?