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Everything posted by racebum

  1. not surprised it went quick. cd players are worth more now than they were 10 years ago. got me why. you couldn't give away 5 disc changers not long ago. now they are getting $100-200 for nice ones
  2. what are you guys playing to do the tests? you can download 50hz and 1khz signwaves in mp3 format from mtx a digital volt meter works with this signal even though they won't work with dynamic sounds for the previously stated reasons https://www.mtx.com/testtones people use these to set amp gains in car audio. you're just doing the reverse here. you know the ohm load. play the signal, increase volume and see what you get for voltage. i tried a couple. an adcom 5300 puts out 28v into 8ohms which is 100w before the clip lights flicker. that's an 80wpc rated. i should run some of these marantz receivers and see what i get
  3. if you're staying 2 channel that would be an excellent choice if you don't need 5+ ch you have a LOT more options bang for the buck wise
  4. ohh the thin lines. completely different sound and performance from the SR series. you can find older receivers like an sr5007 for about 250 shipped mint on ebay. if you don't need true 4k support it's a great sounding receiver for that price point. i also have never liked the marantz thin lines
  5. there is no difference in aventage until you hit the 1000+ series. the 6, 7 and 8 series cross to the rxv which marantz do you have? they change sound year to year. with the time alignment right and graphic eq it shouldn't be that terrible for 2.0 the yamaha has even less of a power supply and is a lot less dynamic. maybe if you are running a dark speaker i could see it? maybe i still haven't heard a yamaha receiver i like when driven hard
  6. true and true. the question i have asked myself is why would i want to treat a room, make it cosmetically less appealing perhaps and the rest if i can just use a different speaker that doesn't have the same issue. the above example i had. my bedroom. floors are hickory. it's 12x14. a bed and area rug are the notable objects. if compression horns go in there they are okay at lower volume. you start getting much over 105db and things go south quickly. for whatever reason the B&W's handily out perform in this environment. on the flip side if these same B&Ws that work very well in my bedroom go to the livingroom which is open and 20x20 not only do they struggle with SPL for obvious reasons and their much lower efficiency vs klipsch but they sound more flat, their dynamics don't have nearly the same punch without the room gain. this is also what made me think of car audio. with car audio it's not just the equipment you worry about, the car becomes part of the transducer so to speak because it causes a lot of gains, sometimes in unpredictable areas. you also have all kinds of reflections or resonance issues. depending on the car. some speakers work MUCH better than others.
  7. in other words not playing them as loud? you have to in that kind of situation with compression horns. maybe in a treated room things would be different? my solution is just use different speakers in different environments. always open minded though to those with a lot of experience however
  8. i don't think so at all ESPECIALLY with compression horns. small rooms really amplify the worst traits of a horn. large rooms are a completely different animal. i've actually tried the rf82ii's in my living room in the bedroom and they are rather terrible. the b&w 603s3 or martin logan motion 12s both sound quite a lot better. in my 20x20 living room the klipsch are lovely. the reflections and basically shouting they do in the bedroom isn't there in the living room. this is why they have never ever never used compression horns in car audio that's worth speaking of. i mean, i get that some of you guys REALLY love the in your face sound but do you actually like it laying in bed watching tv at night or listening to some beats?
  9. how big is the room is question 1. second if you can get rf7s for 1k a pair that's a no brainer. the rf7 is my favorite klipsch speaker. it's not however my favorite speaker of all time but would be right up there in the right room. i like klipsch in LARGE rooms. personally i rarely venture outside of klipsch, B&W or martin logan. all different sounds but all good for what they are trying to do. i also own all 3 & the B&Ws get played the most svs is a good company that engineers their products well and have great value pre packaged subwoofers. i'm not sold on their primes but have not heard the ultras. most every review says they are night and day better
  10. you have lots of options. refurbished dynaco st70s, the jolida gear that is practically everywhere to the horde of chinese made knock off tube amps, some of which aren't half bad
  11. that's a great amp choice. with a good source and a good room you should be set
  12. i haven't heard a class D yet that i like. doesn't mean there will never be one i'm just gunshy to the design for anything above 100hz hunting for the perfect amp is kind of an adventure. you have to start somewhere and over here used rotel and adcom are the bargain amplifiers. sometimes you even find a nice clean older harman kardon inexpensively. examples http://echohifi.com/details/11098/Rotel_RB-980BX and http://echohifi.com/details/11105/Harman-Kardon_PA-2200 both of these are under 200usd., or for 100 more http://echohifi.com/details/7209/NAD_C-272 as for the speakers, which is the real reason i replied. the rf7ii is ideal for larger rooms. it's probably my first choice. low frequencies may need help if you're trying to get loud but a sub could be added later if necessary. i haven't heard the klipsch horn aka flagships setup properly before but i have heard most the rest, heresy, la scala and of those i like the rf7ii the most. i just think it sounds better with modern music which is 99% of what i listen to. also does well with movies
  13. what do you listen to and what is driving them? i thought just the opposite but mainly listen to EDM, some hip hop etc. both were driven by an adcom 5500 and 555ii pre amp
  14. yes, receivers all have their sonic signature. they all sound different. if that's good or bad depends on what you prefer more. if you're looking at integra and marantz those are already two of your best choices in modern AV receivers they even change subtly over the years with the same line. if you take a marantz sr *006 *007 *008 and so on each one will be a bit different. sometimes it's the EQ circuits and sometimes they alter the amp sections
  15. my car 22v x4 @ 4ohms to the morel mids/tweets , subwoofer sees about 40v @ 2ohms {this gets pretty loud as it translates to a bit over 1000w} livingroom {klipsch} cranking i'm seeing about 28v. normal listening is considerably less. i'm not sure if it's the rf82ii / rc62ii combo or what but like others hint at. they do sound a bit better not being driven hard. contrast that to the B&W in my bedroom they are a bit more linear. they require more power to get the same SPL but maintain a similar sound ramping up
  16. i just came here to look at it. vintage threshold is high on my list of "best audio gear ever made"
  17. this is what i did as well. there really isn't a lot coming from atmos. full range is kind of a bothersome term. does it mean 20 to 20 or does it mean a single 4" cone driver aka full range driver? when you look at the klipsch "atmos" speakers like the rp-140sa they are just a 4" cone with a small horn. then again that's moot if you have heritage speakers and want a perfect sonic match. on the bright side you can run 7+ channel music when you jam out
  18. ideally you want all your speakers to have a similar sound. mixing klipsch and martin logan is going to be a bad idea no matter how you stack it. totally different tones. if you listen to a movie and what comes out of an atmos speaker it's really not a lot. it's also above what 80- 100hz? if you have an extremely trained ear then yes you want the same material and same driver on every speaker in the room. it's just one hell of a lot of money and work for special effects
  19. oh no. you're actually correct on this one. it isn't "true" hi-fi unless you have the whole ball of wax. recording to room. that just isn't a very realistic endeavor for practically everyone unless you truly are chasing the holy grail like andrew jones did at TAD. it means very limited recordings played on very expensive items. i 100% agree this is your best chance at trying to reproduce what's actually heard naturally or from a live instrument. it's just an area a lot of us don't have the budget to try and pursue so the compromises come in i have to tell you though. if i was an extreme purist. someone who wanted flat AND the proper tone and sound of being flat, my dynamics via recording, a transparent amplifier..you know what i would do i would buy headphones ! i have now just eliminated half the problems of a speaker system and i'm going to spend a lot less. if you have the budget to try and pursue perfection i do commend you. i'm envious actually. it's a fun hobby and you can find what you're looking for. it can be a never ending journey for many when i look at the image below i see a setup that's going for the sound i believe you may be after. yet another way to see this picture is $100,000 dollars. again..envy if you're able to pull this off
  20. undoing recordings isn't very realistic though when the majority of music is in mp3 format and the artist often EQs for a specific sound. hip hop for example. it's really designed to be boosted around 35- 40hz in a lot of cases. edm works well with a dropped midrange and kevlar, poly or paper cone more times than not as you don't want a detailed midrange and you want to to have a bit of a deeper darker resonance quality. you can easily get two speakers that measure the same and sound completely different. when i first started in loudspeaker design and creating some of my own music i thought flat was really neat. it was the golden goal so to speak. then i realized flat really doesn't describe how you feel sound at all. if you listen to various instruments or various voices they often look like a stock chart. lots of peaks and dips. now in an ideal world a speaker would produces 15 to 25khz flat and in a pleasing way, amplifiers would have 6db of headroom and the recording would be what gives you your dynamics and reproduces that lifelike sound. if this is possible to create it would be unholy expensive so compromises have to be made. have you ever noticed two people who may well have very trained ears may look at a good speaker...like my b&w 802 example. one guy loves it, the other is luke warm? it's almost always 1 of 2 things. the small difference in subjective taste, OR, and this is the one i often believe it is, it's what they are listening to, i can most certainly attest that the speakers i enjoy the most change depending on what i'm listening to and the size of room i'm in. how you setup for HT, or rock music, EDM, hip hop, each of these works better with a different sound and each is a compromise simply because the god system would require buckets of money to attempt to recreate. you also would be faced with the question of what material you like the inherent sound of. you can take a 5" driver made of paper, poly, kevlar or aluminum, they can all test identical....they all sound different to the ear. this particular point is often one of the most overlooked between musician and system designer. the designer says. look at how my system measures ! the musician says but it's not the sound i want ! in our particular example my point fell more in line with this common scenario. you tweak the eq, do speaker placement properly, try and balance the room. run your rta, it looks nice..but you're not fond of the sound. why? lots of reasons but you almost always have some frequency that sounds off from resonance or the cone or the recording, could be many things. use the eq. adjust values in the passive crossovers to create peaks and dips. i have more than once cut a 2way system early when i had trouble with cone break up. you can do a lot to improve what your ears perceive..and...it isn't flat your second statement about room reflections i agree with simply because you can't even tell what sound you have if the room is playing along with the tune. you may have a speaker that plays 500hz really nicely but that tone either reflects off your floor at a different frequency or makes something else resonate which completely changes the sound you perceive. this is actually a big problem in high end car audio with tweeters. you may see one that plays to 20khz fairly flat then goes wonky to 30kz. people say you can't hear over 20khz and most of us would be lucky to hear that 19khz. thing is a 25khz sound can make something resonate at say 12khz and now that sound wave is very much in our hearing spectrum. i agree with your overall thought process in what you said, i just am not sure the first part really applies to everyone or every sound simply because it's nearly impossible to actually recreate unless you A. have a lot of money and B. only listen to very limited sources.
  21. couple thoughts. why do you want flat? sound in nature is not flat, not at all. it's very dynamic actually. even some of the best sounding speakers i have heard don't measure anywhere near flat. resonance and how sound is actually heard by the human ear also don't show up on an RTA. in fact i can think of one speaker specifically that sounds absolutely terrible and measures really well. the zaph A/V kits. measurements are great. actual sound is terrible. that's not to say all flat speakers are bad. morel often measures fairly flat and they are a lovely speaker more times than not. same with TAD who makes speakers worth more than many cars. i guess my point with some of this is the RTA is useful if your ears aren't tuned enough to pinpoint frequencies but they RTA doesn't really tell you much about actual sound as the ear and body process it i've actually found under 200hz is the easiest place to live with a system if you get it wrong. it's also the easiest place to get right coincidentally. it's 1khz and up, specifically 1-3.5khz that's the trouble area. if the cones don't resonate to your liking there is no saving that. no eq is going to fix that. if the transducer, amplifier or source get that wrong an eq simply makes a bad sound quieter. under 200hz if it's wrong you may get some boomy bass, you may get some 2nd order harmonics in the room. it;s not fun but it's not nearly as annoying as 1-3khz being wrong one of the best speakers i have ever heard by miles are the B&W 802s and here's how they measure , article link for the set https://www.soundandvision.com/content/bampw-802-diamond-speaker-system
  22. here is what i have tested an audyssey mic will give me the same numbers as a yamaha mic on a yamaha receiver. an audyssey mic will give me the same numbers as a pioneer mic on a pioneer car stereo when you set those for time delay {disclaimer i hate pioneer car decks for SQ} does this work on every receiver in that brand? i have no idea but the mic from a marantz sr5007 works fine on an advantage 740 or said pioneer nex.
  23. the music mentioned was my guess. the heresy does sound terrible with hiphop and dubstep/dance/trance. i'm just not sure why that was worth a youtube rant. the speaker was never designed for this it's not even the response as much as it is how they reproduce the sound. i dunno, i've ran into statements like this over the years often. the one that comes most to mind is with car audio subwoofers. a lot of guys want a big bump at 40-50hz. they use small higher .qtc boxes that resonate and somehow enjoy that. if any of you guys ever upgrade the sound in your cars/trucks all i can say is do your own box design and ignore the "suggested" boxes. if you know the sound you like build accordingly
  24. this seems overkill. you could use in ceiling speakers or even mount rb61ii's which are far lighter. atomos is basically an effects speaker so the sound and presence of a larger speaker isn't going to really be utilized to the same degree as the main 5
  25. what's the budget and do you need an on board dac? are you willing to hunt used or do you need new? if you want warm around 600 dollars i would be looking here http://echohifi.com/details/11095/Jolida_SJ-502A
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