Droogne

haha I know! I know those are garbage ideas soundwise, but wouldnt it be "cool" to have a full jubilee setup with the tv "wall mounted" to the front of the Jub bassbin. Problem is that would only allow like a 22" TV which is not even a real tv size . Plus the tv would be placed way too low. Again I have been thinking about all sorts of ridiculous ideas (MF/HF horns placed between 2 flanking LaScala bins etc) but placing a 65" tv on a speaker, while keeping the center of the tv at an eyesight height is near impossible. EDIT: the true solution to my problem is building my couch riser near-field subwoofer! I'm waiting on the project till I have actually moved in (my rentlord is complete a**hole who is already 3 months late on our contract. Have been building my whole setup since June but as I live in temporary setup with 0 place for any decent size speaker I'm restricted to using my headphone only.. my 65" OLED, Chorus II, LaScala II etc have all been sitting in boxes for over 5 months which gives me all the time in the world to look up more ways to upgrade, without actually having my setup in place. I know.. not the best way to go about it but oh well.)

Are there some back side pictures? Or is that a trademark secret? Synergy horns do look quite spectacular as center speakers! They have everything on would need (good match with LCR and massively reduced height). Would it be possible with a K55/K77 combo? Or would that require a lot of extensive calculating? Planning on selling the LaScala II I already have and spend the money on a custom center, but I'm really not convinced of any design I have come across.. They are all too high or just dont perform well. Was gonna try out a sort of center using the K55/k77 I have with the woofers from the Heresy I I have (as in, decouple the K55 and K77 in the Heresies, lay them on their side so they are as low as possible and then use those 2 cabinets with the other K55/K77 combo on top of it). If it performs well I was planning on building a double 12" cabinet with some Eminence woofers.

@Chris A man... I just realised you are the legend who build that custom K-402 center synergy... Read that post several times months back!

I believe a lot of comparison were made between the Seos 24 and the K-402, but not with the (I think more recent) Seos 30. Not sure. Pair of black painted Seos30 with good drivers (HF200 from faital) would only cost me 1050eu. Still hoping to find a dealer to know the price for the K-402 (incl. all the shipping etc) so I know what I'm up against! To be clear: I'm 100% planning on buying the K-402, but depending on cost I might go for an intermediate. And before you say "that's gonna cost you more in the end", well that's true. But, I also have LaScalas for the rear and side (and center), and if the 2-way is something I like I could move the Seos to the rear/side when I decide to go for the K-402. Seos would be easier to have as a center too due to it's height (10cm). But who knows what I can come up with (rising the couches so the tv height isnt an issue anymore)(K-402 mounted above the tv? with bassbin beneath it, or to the sides?? )(synergy K-402? Not sure I have the skills to pull that off)(Seos as a center between K-402 rears, not sure about timbre matching, but who knows how good it turns out if I'd use the same driver as the K-402 + EQ)(insert random idea)

Well, I primarily started this topic to learn some more about horns and their specs/performance, but also to convince me of the K-402. While I'm discussing here in this topic I'm trying my hardest to find a way to buy the K-402 (contacted over 200 klipsch dealers in Europe, and I have found someone who knows someone who has a K-402 in Europe. Waiting for their contactinfo.). What was the horn that came closest to the K-402?

Not sure what the Stone The Crows incident is, but yeah weather is ***** here.. festival takes place in June so weather is pretty good normally, but it's still Belgium so we do have a lot of rainfall (even in the summer..). If I'd use the LaScalas I will have them painted with some weather proof black coating/paint (+ maybe some of those aluminum trims for extra safety). Normally they are gonna be standing under a roof, but we will probably protect them with something extra (some plastic trashbags on the sides etc, which we have done with some reasonable success over the last years, but I have to admit its never have been perfect) + something for the cabling. The drivers would be placed in a closed-of flightcase. We would ensure the stability of the stack with some straps, or even something "permanent" like this:

"The key is to look at the lowest frequency of the horn/driver assembly that shows polar control, then look at the bass frequencies (in the case of the full-range MEHs mentioned above, that's below the typical consumer room Schroeder frequency). If the bass bin polars match the horn/compression driver polars in each axis (horizontally, vertically), then the loudspeaker will sound very good. If there is a mismatch in polars at the crossover frequency then it will sound not as good in-room." I dont seem to be able to calculate my room Schroeder frequency (no idea what the reverberation time of the room is haha), but I'll do some sweeps and determine it that way it with my UMIK. Once I know that I could theoreticly match that with a horn design? And doesn't it matter that although the Schroeder would be 400 for a horn, but it's crossed at 500 this already is a perfect match, and only depends on the bassbin? Or did I misunderstand? Cause although I have LaScala bins now, I kept open the option open to build another pair (like the Jubs) in the future. Aside from these horns, do you know some other HF horns that could achieve this? Something one would be likely to see on a second hand site? Like something from JBL (I know the 2360 isnt quite the K-402, but not sure where the weakenesses lay in the 2360) or some other brand (BMS, P-audio (lol), EV, .. and some I'm forgetting)

Not super clear on this part. So the second (and third) graph are the "-6db" graphs? As in that the plot shows till what angle the pattern is controlled (aka -6db) for which frequency? Sorry I find it quite complex :s Cause why is it better that the -6db only falls at a low angle, and worse to be at like 360? Or is it vice versa, that the higher the angle shown on the plot, the lower db is at certain fixed angle? Again, not quite getting the plot.. Would you happen to know the polars for the LaScala and Jub? How important are those? The higher they can hold the pattern the better right? And does this have any affect on the crossover? As in to not cross this point.

Ok gain, awesome pics! Some cool things: that first model is yours right (with the DIY case, which is something I was also planning), great to see people succeed in such simple designs! Second photo is hella cool! What kind of crossovers would those use? MWM for the lowest (like a sub), the LaScals as mid-bass and the JBL horn for everything above that? Third photo: thats like a MCM1900 without tweeters stacks?

Love this folder! Just found it, and it looks to be a great starting point to base the project on. Would be changing the MWM bins with LaScalas for now ofcourse, but who knows what the future will bring. The included picture might also work, or well the principle. Use the LaScalas in a tower config, build a convex tweeter rack like the MTM, maybe use a manifold on 1 of the PH2380 horns I have, and use my double pair of Heresies as side speakers? Or would it be smarter to use the drivers of the Heresys in the main tower (I was kinda planning on doing that to be able to achieve my goal haha)

a klipsch fan would even joke about crossing an ocean just to see a couple of speakers in action

Whoa that looks truely ridiculously cool!! ö go team klipsch! Have been wondering for a while what the specs are from those tweeters stacks, looks like 5 units, but which ones? K77? Cause wouldn't that be huge overkill (relatively to 4xK55? Or are there several drivers for the K55?) And why are those horns angled upwards? Isnt that away from the people below? Or is the venue also angled upwards? EDIT: yes those are K77, dumb me! klipsch forum has all the info Still not sure on the 5 tweeters vs only 2 K55 drivers

Leuven! Op 29 juni, bands zijn nog niet aangekondigd, maar varieert elk jaar van bekende nieuwe artiesten naar Rock, alternatief, swing, etc. Het heeft Lemme Live (lemmelive.be) .

Oh, that makes it a bit clearer already! Not sure what it means though, what do the degrees mean then? I'm seeing a 180° match at 170hz, does this mean it is controlled in the front field (as in 180 degree circle in front of the horn) for frequencies down to 170? And below that it's not able to direct/control them anymore and the soundwaves go everywhere and resonate? Or?

Thanks for the comprehensive explanation! Will have to read it again oncce or twice to understand it completely, but very well explained! And yeah I already knew about equalisation, which is why I was looking at other factors which doont benefit from EQ. Does any of the polars I included look promising (or even excellent?)

I'm not sure how to interpret the plots you included, you say -6db but the plots show much higher values? And thanks for the perfect plot (the colored one), is it better if the plot stays narrow down to the lower frequencies, or is it more import how much of the used frequency range is within this -6db value?

Hey I was recently looking into some big badass horns from Autotech, and was wondering what I should actually look for.. a lot of those horns only include size measurements and crossover point. Not a lot to go on.. The SEOS-30 horn were recommended to me once as a similar design as the K-402, but is this even? No way to know without some good comparisons. Sizewise it does look to match. But as it had so few info I was looking into some other horns, which had more info (I asked them, and if the info is not included on the site then they dont have them). Question is, what to deduce from the included specs? How much should I be looking at the frequency responses? I know "all compression drivers" and horns need EQ (which I will be applying, with lets say a Xilica), so are the ranges even relevant? And what about the polar maps (only horizontal), what is good? I'm guessing it should be a uniform as possible within the appropriate range (in my case that would be 500-700hz and up). Was hoping to maybe find a polar map of the K-402 as I know it to be excellent, but havent had any succes finding it. And, in your expert opinions, what look like the "ultimate horn" (design) for HiFi in a moderate room ((5x6m/15ftx18ft) with an adjoining room of 8square meter/40sqft). Not super relevant in the question I want to be asking at this moment, but I will be going for the horn that best fits my size requirements (I actually only got one which is it shouldnt exceed 1,5-1,66 ft. in height). Design wise it will be matched with a LaScala bin (or maybe even a stack) and Faital HF200 (or 20AT) and I will also test it with the K55M (+ 2" adapter) and a K77 (or CT120) tweeter in a 3-way (I already have those, so it doesnt hurt trying it right) Hoping to get some good (general) info into horns and what to look for when comparing them! Thanks!

My choice for going active was to save money actually Now that I know I'll have to invest in a Xilica for optimum performance it might come at the some cost as importing the AA xovers from crites (310 dollars for the AA + 21%import + 68 shipping vs a second hand xilica for 400). For now I'll be using a second hand marantz 7.1 AV receiver (plenty of power/channel, good quality and coherence with the rest of my surround and those models have a 7.1 analog in! only for 50-100euro which is quite a steal) so it's not that expensive. I like the idea of the active crossover, as I like playing with the settings etc + it gives me an opportunity to play with a lot of settings like going 2-way and using different horns (which is what I'm doing at the moment, my PH2380 horn wouldnt work with the classic AA). Also the 2-way would make it even cheaper when compared to passive crossovers. Will look into maybe buying a (custom) passive crossover (or a pair with one) to compare both.

Yeah, that was the original idea! Question about the dispersion was because I was maybe thinking of a 4x manifold (or 3x) etc for midrange horn, but oh well it wouldnt really make it so much eaiser. But isnt the dispersion less an issue for the midrange horn? Greetings

Noted! Will have a look some more into it before buying any combo of amps ! Thanks

I hear you, I have heard some positive remarks about combining SS and tubes though. As the SS would only be for the woofer I'm thinking it could work quite well with the tubes. At the moment I'm gonna be feeding the 6 channels with a Marantz AV/receiver. Reason for going active is because it looked cheaper than the passive (+I have a different horn than the K-401, so I need a different cutoff). A plan I might try out is using a decent SS (maybe something like a second hand Emotiva xpa-3) and a 6 channel tube Amp like the Musical Angel Meng X5 and use that combo to power both the fronts and center

Another general question, any idea / groundrule on dispersion? Does 1 horn (90x40) on each side give enough coverage? They would be placed 18-25 feet from each other. Or do you need more than 1 on each side / bigger Horn for that?

I don't have the passive crossovers :s How did the tubes you mentioned handle the highs and mids?

As I'm always looking for ways to improve my installation, I am looking for the "best" tubes for my actively crossed LaScalas. Woofers will be powered by a solid state amp, but I was hoping to power the mids/high with the warmth of tube amp. Any suggestions? Bare in mind that the K77 only has a power handling of 2-5 watts, the DE120 I'm upgrading to in the future has a higher one (40 watt), so the power for the highs doesnt have to be high. The K55 driver can take a little higher load, 40 watt, but also has a very high sensitivity so doesnt require high power handling either. Was hoping to find tube amps which are known to excell in mids or high as to have a setup with amps specifically suited for the drivers theyre paired with. If you maybe know a specific type of tubes I'd love to hear your suggestions, this might direct me to a good amp which uses this type OR I might find someone to build me an amp with this tubes.

Well, I'm from Belgium (Leuven) too youre the first forum member from Belgian I see! I know how important the crossover is, I'm hoping I can resell the behringer so I can buy a decent second hand Xilica.