ODS123
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Posts posted by ODS123
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One more thing to consider with the sixes: The included cord that joins the two speakers uses proprietary connectors and is (I believe) less than 10ft long. This can be problematic if you ever need a longer cord to, for example, route across a door way or tuck behind furniture, etc.. Also, if the cable gets damaged, it will be way harder finding the correct connectors than it is to find banana plugs. ..You can't even use just stripped wire like you can with passive speaker setup.
Again, they probably sound great. ..Just know that serviceability after a few years is going to be either a hassle, or non-existent.
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1 hour ago, jason str said:
Don't expect good imaging from speakers located only inches apart.
There is a Woburn model that you can connect 2 units to make an actual stereo pair with.
You're right of course. ..As for connecting two, I think I'd pursue other options.
To the OP, my warnings about serviceability aside I do believe the Sixes are beautiful!! ..They look fabulous and probably sound great! ..And compared to my Marshall Woburn, which was $549, I'd say the Sixes at $150 more, are probably a better value. I'm just saying that before you buy, understand that you're getting something that probably cannot be cost-effectively serviced. I'll bet Klipsch doesn't even repair most of the returned units during the Warranty period - my hunch is they simply replace them. Probably true of the Woburn too. ..If years long service is a MUST, I personally think a standalone amp + separate speakers is a better play.
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14 hours ago, jason str said:
Spent some time at ABT recently with a friend who was in the market for a Bluetooth speaker and tested out all the better models and the one that outperformed the others was the Marshall Woburn Bluetooth speaker.
The unit is just a few months old so not sure about long term reliability but if you need something that really jams check it out.
I actually have a Marshall Woburn. I received it as a Christmas gift a few years ago. ..It looks great, and can play incredibly loud w/out distorting. But it's imaging is basically non-existent. AND, if you read the reviews on Amazon, you'll see a fair number of gripes about the internal bluetooth receiver or amp going bad. When that happens, it becomes a huge hassle shipping it somewhere for service. Mine, thankfully, has not had any issues.
I have it hooked to an Apple airport express (for iTunes streaming) and a Logitech Touch (for Pandora, XM, etc..)
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I totally understand your concern about long-time serviceability. ..As I see it, by integrating these inexpensive amps into a speaker you make what is usually the MOST reliable part of an Audio system and turn it into the least AND obligate yourself to shipping the whole speaker in for servicing should a problem arise. Honestly, I struggle to understand the convenience advantage of the Sixes over, say, one of Klipsch's passive speakers matched w/ any of the sub $100 mini-sized amps one can buy at PartsXpress or on Amazon - any of which is probably on par quality-wise with what's built into the Sixes. ..Many of these standalone amps are bluetooth equipped and/or have an extra input so you can connect your own wireless adapter. Some are barely bigger than a deck of cards, and have signal sensing auto off/on so they can be tucked behind one of the speakers, never to be seen again unless a problem arises. ..And if one does, just toss the cheapy amp and buy another.
By going with an active speaker you still have to get a power cord to the powered speaker, then a wire to the other speaker, so just how much is clutter really reduced by the Sixes?
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Not looking to be the neighborhood cop here but isn’t it a bit tacky to come to a manufacturers website seeking help to copy their products ?
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My gripes about their sound quality aside I would find it impossible to turn my nose up at any of their catalog because of poor mixing, equalizing, etc. The Beatles went from the sugar sweet pop of Love Me Do to make-me-wanna break stuff Adrenalin of Helter Skelter in a few short years, and in each of these iterations they were unlike anything else before them. I’ll take their music any way I can get it.
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I long ago gave up on the idea of a perfect speaker that makes all music sound great. No such speaker exists. This is why I advocate that people use preamp’s/integrated amplifiers/or AVR receivers that feature tone controls. When zeroed tone-controls do absolutely no audible harm to the signal, but can do all sorts of magic when listening to music like you described.
In addition to tone-controls when listening to the Beatles I find myself often using the mono switch on my integrated amp as well. I find the mixing on some songs whereby all of the guitar comes from one speaker and all of the vocal from the other to be incredibly irritating. And certainly not at all lifelike.
Viva la tone controls and mono switch!!!
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I have a SL-1210GR. ..Bought it new 2 mos. ago. I absolutely love it. ..Wouldn't buy anything but a DD TT. ..Enjoy your G!
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It might be worth your while reaching out to Klipsch and asking if they can custom build a pair of F3's in the CW3's Cherry finish. This can't be so unusual a request. ..As you suggested, what if someone was trying to match F3's to their CW3's for a HT setup?
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Their finishes are different - at least based on what I saw. ..I listened and to both in Cherry. While I thought the F3 sounded great (though not as nice as the CW3's) I didn't care as much for the finish. I thought it kinda strange that they had different finishes though both were Cherry. ..Yes, the CW3 is deeper and a bit glossier. It's not that the F3's aren't attractive, they are. ..But definitely lighter and a bit duller. If I bought the F3's, I would probably chosen Black Ash or Walnut.
CW3's in Cherry. Our built-in cabinet and floors are also Cherry and match the speakers quite closely. ..The Forte Cherry must be a different strain or something.
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I'm not talking about measured differences b/w cables, I'm talking about repeatable identification b/w cables. No need to do measurements at all, just whether a person can say, when blinded from which is in use, whether it's A, B, or neither.
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8 minutes ago, Thaddeus Smith said:
i guess I'm an idiot in that regard as well.
I haven't and wouldn't call you or anyone else that. ..I'm not suggesting it either. I'm trying to get people to acknowledge that audio engineering is a science and as such biases need to be recognized and controlled before we know whether something is really audible or not.
WCD: ..my hearing has been tested and it is just fine thanks. Plus, I have a keen sense for musical nuance honed by a lifetime of listening to live and recorded music at reasonable sound levels.
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9 minutes ago, Thaddeus Smith said:
I currently use generic cables and wire, but have played extensively with different materials for speaker runs, interconnects, and even particpated in a travelling power cable test of about a dozen different compositions. The differences were subtle, but there. So don't just casually dismiss it, but instead people should be encouraged to experiment and see where their threshold for cost vs. change exists.
I would love to know the details of your cable test. Specifically, how participants were kept from knowing if there were listening to the same or different cable (ie., blinded). And also to know if ALL cables compared were deemed suitable for the purpose by a competent engineer. I find claims of hearing even a "subtle" difference very hard to swallow.
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9 hours ago, wdecho said:
I have heard from notable audio designers that cables and power cords as well can and do make a difference. But most say subtly. The saying is do not spend more on the power cord than you did for the amplifier.
Sorry, but that strikes me as totally incredible. wdecho, you seem nice enough and you're obviously entitled to believe what you want - that's fine of course. ..But I do once again urge any newbies lurking to give some long serious thought to that claim before upgrading beyond the cable that came with their component.
Hey newbies, look at it this way: how can electricity come from a power plant 150 miles away, run through countless junction boxes, transformers, splices, wire of varying gauges - any of which might change on a daily basis - yet when we change the last three feet that runs from our power outlet to our amp, there is a noticeable change?? Yes, some claim to hear an improvement, but none of these claims take expectation bias (placebo effect) into account.
Again, this is one of those things some will say, "hey, to each their own - try it and see if it works for you!" ..Well, isn't this a science!? Isn't electrical engineering founded on scientific principles?? It's not wine tasting. ..It's engineering. This can be empirically tested yet few audiophile seems interested.
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4 hours ago, wdecho said:
On the subject of tone controls vs the simplistic approach to amplification, there will always be two camps with no outright winner.
Yes of course, tone controls are NOT essential - this is self-evident as many people enjoy listening to their music without them. But it's just as important to assert that they are NOT harmful to the signal when zero'd or taken out of the circuit with a Tone bypass switch.. That is a point worth restating for the impressionable newbies who may be reading this thread. I urge them to be very skeptical of people who claim they can hear a signal being damaged by the addition of tone controls to an otherwise well-engineered integrated amp or pre-amplifier.
Just I've said three times now, if a signal is audibly damaged by just two tone controls then why isn't it rendered totally unrecognizable by the hundreds of sliders, pots, etc... that are in the signal path of the mixing boards used to record so much of the audiophile-approved music many hear enjoy.
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2 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said:
"the signal is AUDIBLY (!) degraded is not rooted in fact".
Depends on what you want to call degraded. It is a FACT that noise is added each time something new is introduced into the signal chain.
Well engineered pre-amps and integrated amps that feature tone controls have noise levels that are well below our hearing threshold. My current (Mac MA6600) and previous integrated (NAD 375bee) and even my AVR (Onkyo TX NR1030) all have noise levels that are basically inaudible. So if I'm paying a price for each of these having tone controls, what would that price be??
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3 hours ago, Westcoastdrums said:
For those that think EQ is the devil, as has already been mentioned somewhere, TONS of EQ is using during mixing and mastering. So guess what? You love it and in addition add in compressors, gates and so on.
This is of course true. ..The idea that the signal is AUDIBLY (!) degraded EVERY time the signal passes through a pot, slider, etc.. is not rooted in fact. As I said, if this were true then a signal would be rendered unrecognizable by a mixing board. ..And we know that is not the case. Perhaps EVERY audiophile favorite - including steely dan, patricia barber, Norah jones, etc. - was recorded using something like this. So I recommend any newbies who read this thread to be VERY suspicious of any audiophile who tells you to avoid Tone controls b/c - even when zero'd - they AUDIBLY damage the signal. This is simply nonsense.
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5 hours ago, wdecho said:
For the masses who are not that serious about their music tone controls or equalizers are the easiest way to go.
Sorry but I didn't mean to imply this. ..In fact, I very much disagree. Using myself as an example, I will use my tone controls to make a wonderful song that is poorly recored listenable, whereas the ardent audiophile will often simply chose to never listen to that same song. ..which is a shame because there is TONS of great songs that are quite poorly recorded.
Moreover, in my life I have seen the most extensive music collections - LP and CD - belonging to people w/ full-feature receivers/ integrateds rather than purist audiophiles w/ minimalist featureless gear.. Indeed, some of the latter have barely 50-60 albums. So no, I DON'T think tone controls are used by those who aren't serious about their music. ..In fact, I believe the converse is true.
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Seeing and reading about all that stuff makes it clear that you an audio hobbyist who enjoys endlessly tinkering. ..Something that is definitely to be lauded and respected. But it's also predictable that you're probably not going to like ANY speaker right out of the box. ..And will almost certainly prefer dismantling and re-engineering a speaker to a simple turn of a treble knob. ..That is fine of course. But that doesn't mean an equalizer and/or tone-controls wouldn't be the far better way of tailoring music for the vast majority of audio, or make that music lovers.
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6 hours ago, wdecho said:
I will not listen with a speaker that I consider irritating and I will not resort to distorting the signal with tone controls. Most high end products do not have tone controls or equalizers for a reason. I have multiple buffers and preamplifiers and I assure you none have any form of tone controls distorting the sound. They are not necessary for a properly designed amplifier and speaker system.
I'm sorry but given your unshakeable belief in audiophile orthodoxy there may be no way to really help you but to suggest you buy different speakers.
Or, alternatively, maybe you can disabuse yourself of your notion that tone controls somehow audibly (operative word here) damage the signal. I'll never understand how a signal is supposedly damaged by passing through a zero'd bass/treble control. You do realize that most of the recorded music you listen to has - since the note was played by the musician, to the time it's burned onto your cd - passed through dozens, maybe hundreds of signal breaks, including equalizer, attenuators, etc... If each such break incrementally reduced the signal that passed through, you'd think the signal would be rendered unrecognizable
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1 hour ago, Kevin S said:
I would humbly suggest that you leave the good work of Mr. Delgado and his associates at Klipsch alone and continue to fine tune speaker placement and listening position. If your receiver/amplifier has tone controls, maybe give them a twist.
Well said. Why not just get a pre-amp or integrated w/ tone controls??
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1 hour ago, Schu said:
don't be nuts...
the shipping is boxes meet all requirements set forth by carriers.
if you have any experience in logging a high value claim, you have come up against very stringent perimeters by which compensation is to be approved, you quickly learn manufacturers know at which level they can ship, receive damages and still have claims payouts. the La Scala II original manufacturers shipping boxes meet and exceed all requirements, end of story.
that doesn't mean you can still damage contents. damage can still occur even in a pelican case.
Firstly, I’m not “nuts”, though thanks for your concern. ;(
Secondly, “...meeting all requirements set forth by carriers” matters less than meeting the packaging expectations of the customer. You seem to be suggesting that meeting the minimum required by UPS is sufficient, yet we see persistent customer complaints here, and I’ve heard similar from my dealer, about the comparatively poor job Klipsch does in packaging their Heritage speakers.
I have spent plenty of time on web forums for Paradigm, PSB, and Vandersteen and seldom, if ever, see complaints about shipping damage like I do here. So Is it just coincidence that these other brands also use much thicker boxes and more generous use of dense foam?
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6 hours ago, Schu said:
The factory boxes meet shipping requirements... the double layered cardboard is weight rated for the speaker it's being shipped in them, the boxes have separate corner protectors and they have 1"+ foam centering chocks. This will protect any speaker.... unless the speaker is mishandled. Then any damage could happen.
Um, they clearly do NOT meet shipping requirements. Have you not read all the previous posts comparing Klipsch Heritage packaging with others? ..As I said, my Vandersteen 3A Sigs and Paradigm Signature S8 v2 were comparable in size/wt. to my Cornwalls and the difference in how they were packaged was like night and day. Ditto my friends large floor-standing PSB's (do not recall model but they were > 70lbs each). And though I picked each of these up from my retailer, when I sold them I used UPS and neither had ANY damage upon arrival to the buyer.
The cardboard boxes were considerably thicker, the corner spines much more robust (and made of dense foam w/ the Paradigms) AND each speaker was completely wrapped in very thick plastic.
Yes, maybe using a better courier (read: NOT UPS) would help but almost all the damage I've seen pictured in this thread would NOT happen if Klipsch packaged their speakers the way these other premium brands do. So, no, Klipsch's current packaging most definitely DOES NOT meet shipping requirements.
I recommend people exhibit zero tolerance for ANY damage they find on their newly arrived Heritage speakers. Eventually, angered retailers who have to deal w/ all these returns will bring enough pressure on Klipsch (who ultimately pays the cost) to spend another $30-40, or whatever, on better packaging.
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2 hours ago, Arrow#422 said:
Even with placing the speakers in an insulating & padded double wall carton & then INSIDE of a 2nd double, or even triple, wall carton won't necessarily guarantee their safe arrival.
These items we so relish are both heavy and bulky so damage is surely to occur from drops, mis-handles, and speed demon lift truck operators.
Direct shipping to end user will continue to be risky with the current packaging being used.
Exposure to such losses may be lessened by bulk shipping to various distribution points (by pallet) & then requiring Pick-Up-Only (within end user's same county or some predetermined distance radius).
YMMV
Guarantee? No, but it certainly will cut wayyyyy down on the percentage that arrive damaged. My Paradigm S8's and Vandersteen 3A Sigs were both 100lb/ea speakers and both had far better packaging. Way more heavy foam and far thicker boxes. Either would have survived being shipped over seas.
Heck, my Cornwalls weren't even fully covered in plastic. ..There was a single sheet that draped from the top to the bottom but definitely did NOT cover the whole speaker. Even if the boxes were never dinged, any moisture that worked it's way into the box would have damaged the finish.
C'mon Klipsch, you're better than this.
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Brand New RP-280F Exterior Finish Quality Problems
in General Klipsch Info
Posted
I would not be satisfied w/ any sort of repair. ..I would insist on replacement of both speakers. ...When we spend the kinda money we do on audio gear, the stuff needs to be absolutely perfect. ..No nicks, mars, scratches, etc. I'm sure Klipsch will comply (they did for me, anyway).
If I have one complaint about klipsch it's that their packaging - based on my experience and several expressed here - is woefully inadequate. I had to go through two pairs of Cornwall III's before I finally had a perfect pair. I can only speculate that Klipsch feels the savings from using cheap packaging is greater than the cost of replacing the X% of speakers that arrive damaged. What this calculation fails to capture, however, is that it's an aggravation to their customers; customers who may not come back the next time they buy gear.