ODS123

Do what I did... Biwire one channel, push your speakers right beside each other and have someone use the balance control on your receiver (or pre-amp) to switch back and forth b/w the speakers while playing a mono recording as you listen very carefully. Better yet, have your volunteer biwire one of the speakers w/out telling which. I did this. ..Not me, nor anyone in my house was able to hear one speck of a difference. ..Honestly, I was disappointed to find that my new CW III's had 2 sets of binding post b/c it meant that PWK's no bull$hit approach to speaker design had been broken. Biwiring is a total myth, IMHO. Please report back the conclusion you come to if you try the experiment I described.

Again, hyperbolic language that simply doesn't make sense. ..I've heard all these versions (over the course of time) and NONE is so dramatically better than the previous as to leave one gobsmacked (or incontinent as you suggest). ..Sheesh. Instead, the improvements are very incremental and maybe even barely perceptible if compared in a way so as to reduce bias . All of this underscores the need for the OP to find a store where he can make these comparisons himself using the same gear, same room, and same music at carefully matched volumes.

Well if you've only visited one high end retailer in a decade, then don't be so sure. ..I've been to dozens and I've seen MANY very large speakers. This includes the TOL Wilson, JBL Synthesis Everest, TOL McIntosh, Dynaudio, Vandersteen 5A's and so on. ..Each of these speakers was as large (or nearly) as Klipschorns, but EVERY ONE was significantly more attractive or at least had far better fit/finish. Not ONE of these stores had a Khorn. As for the Big Heritage "destroying everything in the store". ..I do hate that sort of hyperbole. The speakers I mention above are fabulous speakers even if I might prefer the Klipschorns. "Destroying" does not apply in audio unless you're comparing a modern day high-end ystem to, say, a wind-up Victrola.

This should go a long way in helping Klipsch sell more Klipschorns. To start with, more dealers will feel confident having them on hand for customers to hear. ..As wonderful as they sound I'm sure dealers were quite reluctant to have any on display because of their homemade-like appearance. That and the fact that they need to be situated tightly in corners that are at least 18-20 ft. apart. Not much you can do about the latter, but addressing their appearance will definitely get more of these AWESOME speakers in people's homes.

Well, 800 bucks certainly is not insignificant 🙂 it’s more than enough to buy an integrated amplifier more than capable of driving either speaker. Having reread your post I do wonder if the Cornwalls wouldn’t be more suitable just based on the size of your room. My room is 16 feet wide and I think the Cornwall’s are better suited.

I compared both the same morning, in the same room same, listening to the same music. To my ears the CWIIIs sounded more dynamic, extended deeper, and at least matched the FIIIs for resolution, if not slightly bettered them. One other CWIII advantage was how full and enjoyable they sound even at very low volumes, which I am sometimes forced to listen at so as to not wake people. As I see it, the Corwall IiIs are clearly better speakers which they ought to be considering they are significantly more expensive. So it’s a question of whether your budget and your room can accommodate them. If not, the Forte IIIs come awfully close. I can’t imagine anyone being unhappy with either.

While this is true to an extent I still think most people contemplating spending $15K will want to have a look at the whole speaker - front AND back - before buying. And once they look around the speaker, I'd have to think many potential buyers would be disappointed to see all the things I mentioned. Let's face it, the current version looks like an amateurish wood-shop project once you get past the veneered part of the speaker. Again, this wouldn't stop a fan-boy such as I but it would others. And if we are truly fans of this brand, we should want them to broaden their appeal so as to continue thriving. My previous speakers were Paradigm Signature S8 v2s. ..Even though it was strongly recommended in the manual and all reviews that the grills be left ON (i.e., all measurements - which were absolutely superlative - were taken w/ grills on), the fit/finish under the grill was absolutely gorgeous. Klipsch needn't go as far a Paradigm, but it's not asking much to expect that all screws are symmetrically located, all end-grain of the ply-wood be fully filled or maybe veneered, and the rubber trim is attached w/ greater care. And looking at the pics of the new iteration, it looks like they've done exactly that.

A closed back would be nice, but I'd be satisfied if they'd just clean up the build aesthetics a bit. For $15k speakers, the fit/ finish should be a bit nicer than this. I'm referring to wood screws that don't seem precisely symmetrically located, lots of flash and mold marks on the backs of the horns, the bracket supporting the horn being canted to one side, the rubber trim looking different from side to side. Please understand that I'd still buy them as they are, but like most of you here, I'm a fan-boy. ..But if Klipsch wants to stay competitive they need to sell to more than just other fan-boys. They need to sway some of those who will be comparing them side-by-side with Dynaudios, Paradigms, KEFs, Vandersteens, etc. I'd bet my lunch money they've been hearing this from their dealers too. Sounding better matters a great deal, but cosmetics matter too. Yes, the veneered part of the Klipschorn is beautiful, but the rest of the speaker just needs to look nicer, imho.

Although I don’t believe my Mac amp sounds different than any Of the amps I’ve had prior, there are a great many reasons for buying it. For starters, I love the feel, the look, the build quality and the fact that it is largely handcrafted in upstate New York. Plus, I love the feature set, Including: mono/stereo switch, bass/treble controls, trims to adjust the volume level for all inputs, and wattage meters that help ensure I’m not over driving my speakers. Basically, I see owning a McIintosh amp as being roughly equivalent to owning an expensive watch: yes, it’s frivolous and unnecessary but it is satisfying and enjoyable all the same. I am not critical of owning expensive gear, only of believing it sounds better. Speakers are the lone exception, imho. I don’t own a motorcycle or boat or an expensive car. My audio system is pretty much my only extravagance . As for my turntable, I do believe there are audible differences between modern day tables but these differences disappear once speed accuracy, W&F, and rumble achieve certain measurable levels. In short, the SL-1200 solves all these problems and spending more yields little in terms of audible improvement. Again, imho

Not to Derail this thread but I find that to be patently ridiculous. As I’ve said before, this hobby’s relative distain for empirical evidence is incredible and likely explains why so relatively few people participate in it. I find it amazing that while we all seem to appreciate the good work of the highly skilled electrical and mechanical engineers who design our gear we at the same time detach ourselves from the scientific method that is the very foundation of what they do. I strongly suspect the engineers who work at audio gear companies have tremendous skepticism about audiophiles because of the “huge” differences they claim to hear between amps, CD players, dacs, etc.. By that token, I suspect PWK himself would as Well... just a hunch

who knows, maybe they're just not your cup of tea. ..it happens. Of course, it never hurts to make sure he didn't have them connected out of phase or that the tone controls were not zero'd. ..Beyond that, and sensible positioning within the room of course, there's not much else you can do. ..I would NOT give much credence to any claims some might make that it could be due to poor synergy b/w the speakers and the Luxman integrated. That's nonsense IHMO. ..That's a fine integrated amp that is designed to be linear at any reasonable volume, driving any reasonable speaker. Again, they just might not be for you. I love my cornwalls and could not fathom EVER adding a sub. ..In fact, that's why I didn't even consider La Scala's.

Those articles you linked to did little to discredit blinded testing.

I totally agree. No offense to Mr. Crites, but there’s not a chance I would modify my new Cornwall threes. It’s amusing how on one the hand we are all about love and praise for Klipsch engineering then on the other hand we’re eager to start yanking out components without any clear empirical proof we are improving things. But it is not just with Klipsch, or even speakers… There is a whole “I won’t be satisfied with it until I modify it” subculture within this hobby. To each his or her own, personally I leave everything I buy precisely as it was out of the box.

Well, $4000 GB is $5300 US. As much as I loved the sound of the F3’s when I heard them, $5300 puts them in a whole other price category. As for the rest of the review, I think it underscores a point I made in another thread about the need for speakers to be initially auditioned from behind an opaque screen. Given his comments about horn’s and his prior knowledge of Klisch speakers it’s quite possible there was a fair amount of expectation bias at play. It would be fascinating to read audition notes when the reviewer doesn’t know if a speaker is a horn design, # of drivers, cabinet size, country of origin, cost, etc.

Sorry, but no amplifier is going to change speakers from "hate 'em to love 'em". If ANY audible differences exist b/w modern day amplifiers and AVR's (most double blinded testing suggests there is NOT) they are apt to be very very very very small - certainly not enough to change how you feel about your speakers. ..Of course, this assume you have your AVR set-up properly (read: all tone controls zero'd/ off) Look, there is no shame in admitting that Forte IIIs may not be for you. ..I think they sound great, but there's bound to be those who don't. ..Of course, one has to wonder how you came to own them without first confirming you like their sound. If I were you, I'd first confirm my Pioneer is working properly then, assuming it is, I'd sell the Fortes and pursue another pair of speakers. This time, spend copious amounts of time listening before buying.

Wow, thanks for an informative and thoughtful post. ..Not much to disagree with. And if I could, I'd like to point to another (if a bit tangential) inconvenient truth.. Which is, some instruments ARE harsh sounding when heard live if heard too long and from too close. Hence, these instruments can and will fatigue a listener when played on an accurate audio system. I mention this b/c I've heard it said of Klipsch Khorns and Cornwalls that they cause listening fatigue. From years of playing and listening to live music I can attest that live trumpets, flutes, violins, etc.. can and will begin to grate even in the best of venues played by the best of musicians, so to seek an audio system that NEVER causes listening fatigue is so seek an audio system than is not wholly accurate.

That comment about the Khorns sure hIghtens my interest in hearing a pair But I don't understand the remark: "Choosing the correct ancillary components is a must with the Heresy" Why?!! Given their very high efficiency, I can't imagine ANY modern day amplifier having difficulty cleanly driving them to ear-damaging levels. Though I generally use my McIntosh MA6600 to drive my cornwalls, I did - just for fun - listen to them with the $100 50w AudioSource AMP 100 integrated I use for my deck speakers. ..And they sounded just as terrific - clean, clear, smooth, and to insane volume levels. AudioSource AMP 100

I don’t believe that measurements are everything, but I do believe that if the differences people claim to hear between speakers, cables, amplifiers, cd players, etc. can’t be reliably identified while blinded, then the differences aren’t really there.. just mho

I am using a Mcintosh MA6600 to drive my new Cornwall iii’s. It sounds great While my amp is 100 W more powerful than the 5300 I very much doubt that will matter. The fortes are so efficient that they won’t need much more than 20 or 30 Watts at the very most . While my speakers are a little more efficient I seldom see the wattage meters go beyond 5 W. And it is crazy loud at that point.

I think if you were blindfolded you would have a very hard time hearing any difference between Mcintosh tube or solid-state gear. Mac engineers ALL their amps to be ruler-flat at all audible frequencies. A few years ago I spent quite a bit of time comparing a new Mac tube and solid-state amp and I could not reliably distinguish between the two. Nor could the sales person at the dealer.

Listened extensively to both, in the same room, on the same day. To my ears, the Cornwall III’s sounded better. Better resolution, greater dynamics, greater bass extension, and the added bonus of higher efficiency. I also felt the Cornwall’s look better - specifically, the way the grills are recessed rather than stick out - but that is also quite subjective. The Cornwall’s are also significantly more expensive so keep that in mind. I can’t imagine anyone being disappointed with either. The forte iiis Are great speakers. If you are space constrained or budget constrained, they are probably the better choice.

The review was largely positive which certainly jibes w/ my own impressions of the Heresy III's. ..Still there's much about the review that annoys. It seems strange that one reviewer (Guttenberg) would tell another about to review a pair of speakers " (exclaiming) ..Those aren't audiophile speakers. Those are party speakers!" For one, what the hell does that that mean and why would "party" and "audiophile" being mutually exclusive? I'm an audiophile (of sorts) and I like music at parties, so...??? And two, how about one reviewer caring enough about his craft and enough about the reader to NOT taint a fellow reviewer with expectation bias by making such a strong and prejudicing statement? Wouldn't it be nice if reviewers were forced to share their initial judgements of speakers before knowing what they look like, their size, who makes them, what kind of drivers they employ or what has been said of them by other reviewers?? Perhaps hear them from behind a visually opaque but sonically transparent screen before being allowed to take them home for an extended listen? Do you think this would affect what we read? I sure believe so.. ...Hey, an audiophile can dream, can't he??

I very much doubt that different amps or additional break-in time is going to change a speaker from hate it to love it. And Swapping out drivers on brand new speakers strikes me as a bad idea. Seems to me you keep buying speakers that you don’t like. Perhaps you need to spend a little more time listening to the speakers before buying them.

Love the dollies! Thankfully, I don’t have to regularly move my speakers. If I did, I’d build a set:) To get my Cornwall iii’s into positions are used these....

I have Cornwall III's which are just a bit more efficient. Still, I have the benefit of a wattage meter on my integrated (McIntosh MA6600). I have yet to get the volume cranked to where the peaks are even 20 watts. ..Cruising along at 5 watts is freakin' LOUD!!! My hunch is your ears will start to clip before your speakers do.