ODS123

So you gave a technical explanation for what I've noticed in my own experience. The separates I've owned (B&K, Bryston) had more noise and hum than any of my integrateds or receivers (Onkyo, NAD, Peachtree, and now McIntosh). As an aside they also both struggled w/ maintaining volume consistency b/w both channels. For example, when you slowly turned the volume all the way down you could easily notice that one channel would go quiet before the other. ..Very annoying. This was an issue when listening at low levels during the early am hours. Thankfully, they both had Balance controls so I could bring the channels back in line. Lastly, they both had cross-talk b/w inputs. For ex. with the CD player paused, and the volume fairly loud, I could hear FM music coming from the tuner on the adjacent input. It just seemed like the very thing separates were supposed to do better, they didn't at all.

Vandersteen, JTR, Salk, etc... also make speakers here in the US and they don't seem to have these finish issues.

umm.. not buying it. A different angle isn't going to make a screw appear higher on the trim board. ..Or account for why the rubber trim is crooked on one side. Look, I'm a fan of the brand. I just spent $4000 on a pair of Cornwalls, and I love them!! But I'm still going to be objective. The back side of their flagship speaker should display greater attention to finishing detail. I agree they sound awesome. But if bought this pair, I'd be asking for replacement. ..Or if I were to order a pair I'd tell them to be mindful about all screws being symmetrically placed. How hard would it be to have a jig or template that helps ensure proper screw positioning and to turn every screw in until it's consistently flush? Check out their cheapest pair of bookshelf speakers and you'll see better finish on the back.

An interesting thread. ..While I haven't heard pretty much ANY of these speakers, I can say I loved how the Klipschorn's sound. But there is one area in which the Klipschorn's do not always compare very favorably with at least some of the comparably priced speakers - that is fit & finish. Take a look at the following pics that are screenshots from the Klipsch website. Note how the screws aren't symmetrically positioned on both sides of the centerline, and notice how the rubber trim is sort of slipshod. Also the bracket supporting the horn isn't centered. In the bottom pic you can see that some screws are countersunk as others sit above the surface. This is a sample of Klipsch's Flagship speaker displayed on their website! Yes, I know it's the sound that matters most but when you're talking about $15,000 speakers (CORRECTION! $12,000), the finish DOES matter to a significant degree.

...I understand. I didn't pay full list for my Cornwalls. ..But the profit margin isn't as huge as you think. .Don't forget the enormous costs of a B&B business. Hence, the scarcity of retailers who have Heritage line speakers on hand for auditioning.

Well, ok... But the way you described it, heck, I thought you wanted Studio 54 in your home, or maybe Jesse Pinkman's set up If you loved the Promedia GMX setup, then you should be more than happy with the R-15PM and a Sub. ..Or if budget allows, Consider Heritage Heresy's. ANY inexpensive A/V receiver would do just fine driving the Heresy's.

Your question made me smile as it reminded me a bit of the episode in Breaking Bad when Jesse went and bought a Club sound system for his smallish living room. Anyway, not to sound like a snob but good hi-fidelity speakers aren't supposed to accentuate any frequency range, including bass - this includes Klipsch. If you're looking for "earth shattering bass, humongous, ground-shaking night club" type bass, then you're probably not that interested in accuracy. As such, I would recommend you peruse websites that sell dance club sound systems, since that is the type of sound you're most interested in. Because these are engineered more for volume than accuracy, you may find you can get away spending a lot less than you would on, say, a pair of Cornwalls or RF-7iii's etc.. Take a look at B&H photo website. A pair of PA speakers and matching subs could probably be bought for less than $2000, and most of these are powered, so you wouldn't need an amp. Take a look at this one page on their website. Two Behringer PA speakers and a matching sub would cost less than $1000. My personal opinion is that it would sound borderline awful, but that is also my personal opinion of the "thumpy" Disco sound you seem to be going for (sorry). https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?setNs=p_OVER_ALL_RATE|1&Ns=p_OVER_ALL_RATE|1&ci=12322&srtclk=sort&N=3992462025 These speakers are powered so no amp required. ..Simply plug in a wireless bluetooth music adapter ($40-50) or an Amazon Echo, and you can stream music from your iPad, etc... lastly, a pic of Jesse's system:

Are you serious? They list for $4000/ spkr. A $2400 discount for a blemish isn't enough? ..Totally disagree. That said, I'd still buy Cornwall III's at full list. ..But that's just b/c I think they sound better. ..just MHO.

When and who? ..Sorry, but I would want something more definitive before I'd conclude this guy is selling off-label. What you're saying sounds like hearsay. At minimum, I'd call the seller and ask for some evidence that warranty for these speakers would be honored by Klipsch. added: Heck, we're on the Klipsch website for goodness sake. Can't someone from Klipsch take a look at the A-gon listing and tell us if it's bogus or not?

While I wouldn't want to encourage anyone to patronize a rogue dealer, I also wouldn't want to impugn a sellers reputation unfairly. Isn't it possible he's selling these on the internet w/ Klipsch's blessing?? Many mfgs have different rules regarding b-stock items. If I were in the market for La Scala's I'd put in a call to Klipsch to make sure they would regard this as an authorized sale.

I'm totally happy w/ my 3 mo. old Cornwall III's but figured I'd pass this along. ..Looks like a great deal. https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8h4d7-klipsch-heritage-la-scala-ii-b-stock-walnut-full-range

If an amp (or integrated) is misbehaving I'd recommend immediately removing it from your system and getting it fixed. I had a B&K amp behave in a similar way. I thought I'd ignore it until the problem became more consistent then one day "poof!!" a loud pop, a small ball of flame and smoke. Thankfully, the amp didn't damage my Vandersteens nor the B&K Pro-10MC preamp upstream. I sent it to B&K and was told it was basically irrepairable. ..I'm pretty sure had I sent it in before it blew, it would have been.

It's important to point out that I was able to listen to BOTH of these side by side in the same listening room with little time elapsing b/c comparisons. ..Listening environment contributes greatly to how a speaker sounds. I'd be a bit skeptical of any comparison that was made in different settings.

Thanks! The great room was planned around my system, which includes this built-in cherry cabinetry. At the time, my speakers were Paradigm S8 v2's, in Cherry. ..Thankfully, the Cornwall's in Cherry matched every bit as nicely.

I listened to both the Forte 3 and Cornwall 3 before buying the C3. ..If you are space or budget constrained, then you'll love the F3's. ..But if space and budget allow, there was no mistaking that the C3's sound more dynamic, and extend lower. ..Pretty much what one would expect given the larger enclosure, etc.. Prog rock will sound awesome on either. (as would any other type of music ) I listened and purchased mine from worldwide stereo near philadelphia. ..Very nice people. Both were in stock when I went to audition, but it would be best to make an appt. so they can have both pairs on hand. their website: https://worldwidestereo.com here's a pic of my Cornwall III's.

(sorry to reply to my own post, but someone reacted and i don't want to presume their endorsement of my add'l comment) ..And when you ask the salesperson about this seemingly simple rubber-band approach, they'd say something like "it's better than DD b/c of motor noise." Hmm.. I hear ZERO motor noise on my DD, yet every $1000 BD I heard struggled to hold a steady pitch when playing a piano or violin note. ..So, it seems to me to be mostly a matter of engineering, tooling, and manufacture. ..A DD TT requires tons of it, a BD does not.

I completely agree. It's what I discovered when I shopped for a TT four years ago to replace my 15 yr old Ariston Icon.. ..Not to offend, but the belt-drives that I looked at seemed to be little more than a plank of wood, a bearing, an out-sourced motor, a rubber-band and an out-sourced tonearm. No suspension to speak of. ..Just a simple device that appeared to take little engineering know how. ..Compare that to a Technics SL-1200, which seems like a substantial component.

I'm giving serious thought to selling mine (pictured earlier in thread) and buying either a new SL-1200G, or SL-1200GR (more likely). I don't have a particularly good reason other than just having one that's new in the hopes that'll be the last table I'll every buy. Not to high-jack the thread, but could anyone speculate what I'd get for my SL-1200mk2? ..It is truly like new, not a mark or mar and NO modifications other than a KAB dampener which is easily removed by a twist of screw. I suppose it's possible the set-screw left a tiny mark, but that would be it. Even the box looks new. Any guesses?? ..I bought it as NOS in 2014? Sorry if it's no appropriate to ask.

Actually, ..I stand corrected. Technics has released a revised SL-1200 called the "GR". ..It's $1800. I knew they released an uber-costly 1200 (the GAE, around $5000) but was not aware of the GR. Good to see Technics resurrecting the 1200 class of TT's. .Also, I was wrong about the Pioneer as well. ..It's purchasable directly from Pioneer via the "DJ" section of their www.pioneerelectronics.com website. ..It's $600. ..Anyway, just wanted to correct the record.

I realize the OP has already found a TT but for those reading this thread hoping for a recommendation, the following Technics SL1200mk2 just turned up on A-gon. It appears to be in good shape, however the seller has no feedback. ..So keep that in mind. $350 seems reasonable to me. https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8ggc1-technics-sl-1200-mkii-turntables

I listen to music incessantly. ..But I approach this hobby with a critical mind. ..I think it's hurt by a general disinterest in sorting out the real audible differences b/w gear and those that are imagined because of biases.

Well, to those who believe there are audible differences b/w cables, let me make this suggestion. Yes, it may take a few minutes to set up but you'll thank me for the money it will save you. First, push your two speakers right next to each other. Now, take two different interconnects (or speaker cables) and have a friend or family member connect one to one channel and one to the other WITHOUT telling you which is which. ..Now, play a MONO song and switch b/w the speakers using your balance control. ..Do you hear a difference now?? You can improve this test by using a db meter to first making sure your amp outputs the same SPL (within a db or so) to each channel. ..If one channel is sufficiently louder, this will likely fool you into thinking the cable sounds different. ..But normally, you needn't bother if your pre-amp is functioning properly. Dollars to donuts you won't hear one iota of a difference.

Sure, they'll cite technical reasons that make them better but NEVER will they cite blinded listening trial data showing they are in ANY way audibly distinguishable from the power cords that are provided by the component manufacturer. I work for a Pharma company. If one of our drug reps tried impressing a Doctor by bragging about how the biochemistry of our drug makes it better than another, the doctor (the good ones, anyway) would stop the rep and say something like, "Don't bother telling me that - we can discuss that later - first, just show me the blinded trial data that show it benefits the patient by reducing symptoms or halting/slowing disease progression. If you HAVE the data proving it makes a difference then sure, tell me how it works. ..If not, I don't need to hear about the biochemistry." I'll say it again, the utter lack of honesty/bias controls in high-end audio controls hurts this hobby.

I hope that's not representative of the entire line. If so, that's sorta unforgivable as the first and essential task of a turntable is to turn the record at a consistent 33 1/2 rpm speed. Failing that, there's no redemption for the table. Though I can't site the technical reasons, every belt-drive table I've listened to has struggled to some degree w/ this primary function. Sustained piano and violin notes will reveal this flaw quickly.

I’d get a used Technics SL1200mk2, a new Pioneer PLX1000 (only a few left it seems) or maybe up your spending to $2000 and get one of B&H’s last “new Old Stock” Technics SL1210mk5’s. Yes, yes, I know… people will say “$2000! ..That was a $500 TT when it went out of production!” ..Well, maybe, but at $2000 it’s still better built than comparable Belt-drive tables IMHO. I’d ignore the audiophile snobbery that surrounds DD tables. Snobs contend they are noisy and “cog”. Well, perhaps the old cheap ones did this back in the 80’s, but I’ve not heard this from any I’ve heard. With the platter turning on my Technics, , I can’t hear ANY noise or hum coming through my speakers until I’m at about 80% volume, which would be AC/DC concert level spL if I dropped the stylus. The other gripe is that it's a DJ table. Well, so what? That doesn't preclude it sounding great, and it partly explains why it's built like a tank. By comparison, every $1000 belt-drive table I’ve heard (which, admittedly isn't every $1000 belt-drive table) has been way noisier AND struggle to maintain steady pitch. Listen to a sustained piano or violin note on one of these tables and you’ll hear what i mean - the note warbles audibly and annoyingly. I had one of these BD tables on loan and played an LP as I also played the same song on CD. ..By the end of the 9min. song, the BD table was trailing by 20 secs. ..I do the same w/ my 1200 and it’s spot on - the LP song ends at exactly the same time as the CD. Operationally, you’ll also notice that these tables have a much more substantial feel than their comparably priced BD tables. My SL1200 (which I purchased new from B&H Photo three years ago - as new old stock) looks and feels like a $1000 component. It’s a heavy piece of gear made from metal and thick rubber (lower half of the base). By comparison, the $1000 BD tables I considered felt so light and insubstantial. Anyway, if you go the DD route, you’ll probably have to move quickly on either the Pioneer or Technics SL1210 as these are out of production and are available only as new old stock. here's a pic of mine. ..Using a AT 440mla cartridge