ODS123
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Posts posted by ODS123
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I elected to get Cornwall iiis over the LaScala ii’s because they extend deeper. The additional efficiency and maximum SPL of the LaScala mattered less to me then the Cornwall being closer to full range. With just 3-5 Watts, the Cornwall’s are mind blowingly Loud and dynamic so it’s not like I’m missing out on the advantages of the LaScalas
Like some of the others here I’m not keen on subwoofers. I don’t like the added cabling, additional cabinets and what seems like endless tweaking to get them to integrate properly.. That said, if I were to one day have my own listening room where aesthetics matter only to me, I might consider trying two subwoofers for a weekend to see what I am missing
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6 hours ago, LarryC said:
"Cables have break in period?"
Absolutely.
Naysayers abound in this area, as you can see. It's best to ignore extreme ones and keep an open mind
Yes, have an open mind. But this also means open to the possibility that the difference you are hearing are due to expectation bias.
Any person wanting to discover for themselves whether or not there are audible differences b/w speaker cables, interconnects, new cables/broken-in cables, etc. need only follow my simple recommendation:
Place your speakers side by side, then have someone connect cable A to one channel cable B to the other channel (without telling you which is which of course) then as you sit back and listen have that person switch between the two speakers using the balance control as you play a MONO recording.
I firmly believe the differences that seemed so obvious will disappear.
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Again, as with comparing interconnects one could do the same w/ speaker cables:
Place your speakers side by side, then have someone connect brand A speaker cable to one channel brand B to the other channel ( without telling you which is which of course ) then have that person switch between the two speakers using the balance control as you play a MONO recording.
I strongly suspect the differences that initially seemed so obvious will disappear.
The biggest con, IMHO, is that of the upgraded power cord. ..To think that current that travels through hundreds of miles of power line, then hundred yards of so of Romex in one's house, could be improved by changing the last 6 feet of wire that exists b/w an outlet and the component is, to me, ridiculous.
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2 hours ago, HDBRbuilder said:
"HBB" stands for Heresy Birch Black...Baltic birch was not used on Heresy cabinet BODIES. I outta know, I built thousands of them. Consumer Heresys COULD BE ORDERED with textured black finish. These are not "industrial" models, because the label would have said "HIB"
Can they still be ordered with the black textured Finish? The Heresy iii’s?
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12 hours ago, Schu said:
This thread is 5 years old...
..Haha, yes I see that now. ..Oh well, the my point still stands. ..That there is a tendency for people to think that all improvement ended with whatever version they happen to own.
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A true story from several years ago:
I bought a Monster powerstrip to protect my Bryston amp from power surges. I pulled the plug of the Bryston amp from the wall, plugged it into the Monster strip and listened. Though I had been highly skeptical about the benefits of power conditioning I was amazed by what I heard. ..My amp sounded better in ways I couldn't quite articulate. The sound was smoother, cleaner and just more "right". ..Just to make sure I wasn't just imagining things, I switched back and fourth a couple times. Yep, there was no mistaking it. I decided to go back one last time. I unplugged the amp. ..And before plugging it back into the wall I decided to switch on the TV to see how my man Federer was doing during the Wimbledon finals. I hit the TV power button and..... nothing. Huh?? ..I tried again.... nothing.
Turns out, during the whole exercise..I wasn't switching the Bryston's power cord back and forth b/w the wall outlet and the Monster strip, I was switching the TV's.
Case in point: Expectation Bias is very powerful. .It explains why Asthma patients who are given an inhaler w/ placebo medication in clinical trials experience a 30% reduction in symptoms.
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On 3/16/2013 at 3:12 AM, Boomzilla said:
The Cornwall IIIs are a completely different animal. Klipsch has abandoned their plywood construction and now uses MDF. For their La Scala model, the MDF is significantly thicker and avoids any change to the sound. For the Cornwalls, however, the MDF is the same thickness as the previous models' plywood - 3/4". For this reason (or not?), the cabinet now "sings along" with the driver to a FAR greater extent than with the previous Cornwall model. This results not only in a very muddled bass line, but also in a "sameness" to the bass.
The discontinuity between the woofer and the midrange is still there, but now is more pronounced because of the "faster" titanium driver in the midrange horn. The discontinuity, formerly only occasionally noticeable, is now distressingly audible and for almost all types of music.
Further, the treble is now voiced from a titanium-diaphragm tweeter horn. Although more extended than the old Electro-Voice T-35 tweeter (used in the type I), the treble can now be excessively bright on axis. Position the speaker so that the listening position is not on axis, and the woofer-to-midrange discontinuity becomes more obvious.
Couldn't disagree more. For one thing, MDF is a better material for speakers; it's denser and less prone to warping - it's use is ubiquitous in high-end speakers. ..And I've not been able to get my Cornwall III's to "sing along" w/ either music or tones. It's hard to believe such an obvious flaw would go unnoticed by the engineering team who designed the CWIII's. To my ears (which perform well on hearing tests), the bass sounds very detailed and extended. ..None of the blurring Boom has noted. Same w/ respect to the "discontinuities" he describes. ..I hear none of this.
As a more general comment, and I'm not trying to flame Boomzilla here, but it's totally predictable that when a newer version of a speaker is introduced there will be those who claim that all improvements ended w/ the particular version they own. ..It's as if the crack team of engineers who made their version lost their marbles just as they were designing the successor. Or that the brand suddenly changed their focus from improving performance to only cutting costs. I recall reading this when Vandersteen went from 3A to 3Asig, Paradigm from Studio 100 ver4 to 5, Paradigm S8 v2 to v3 (w/ Berrylium Tweeter), and so on.
The bottomline: try to avoid being overly influenced by on-line reviews. Go and listen and form your own opinions.
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Any flaws in a/B/X testing pale in comparison to the impact of expectation bias when one takes the approach of listening to one set of cables, taking 5-10 minutes to replace with the new set and then listening for “differences”. All the while completely aware of which cables you are hearing.
If people would simply do what I suggested earlier in this thread I think many minds would be changed. To repeat, place your speakers side by side, then have someone connect brand A cable to one channel brand B to the other channel ( without telling you which is which of course ) then have that person switch between the two speakers using the balance control as you play a MONO recording. I suspect The differences will disappear
Just because a perfectly designed and executed blinded test is impractical shouldn’t deter people from trying less perfect validity test
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It’s so disappointing that we as audiophiles are, as a group, seemingly so disinterested in putting audibility claims to any sort of blinded validity test.
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Not trying to offend, but I'm skeptical to say the least. ..My recommendation: Put your speakers side-by-side. Have a friend/family member connect one of the old cables to one channel and a new cable to the other, without telling you which is which. Then, while playing a MONO recording, have that person switch between the two speakers by using the balance control on the AVR/ Pre-amp. I bet your ability to hear a difference w/ disappear.
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Wow, those are beautiful!!! Personally, I'd spend what it takes to have the blemish concealed. ..They otherwise appear to be museum quality.
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A good furniture repair guy could make that disappear (or nearly) using melted colored wax, etc.. ..If the speakers are truly as beautiful as they appear to be, I'd do it for sure. ..Once again: ..How about pics of the whole speaker
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Sorry to read about the ding. ..Would love to see pics of the whole speaker!
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How exactly are these New Old Stock? Technically, NOS means they are still in an unopened box and their condition is a true 10 out of 10. Even if you pulled these from a sealed box, they appear awfully dirty and weathered - like they've been exposed to moisture or some sort of environmental fallout. Plus, they appear to have marks from things being stacked on them. ..No offense, but if someone told me these are NOS, I would say, "no way".
I bought my Technics SL-1200 mk2 as NOS from B&H Photo. ..Yes, it had been 3 years since date of mfg., but it had NEVER been opened. ..The factory seal on the box was not broken.
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8 hours ago, Sound.Theory said:
I really don't understand why on Earth we shouldn't be allowed to see the inside of their speakers...? The internals absolutely have a huge impact on performance and help me determine what I buy. I will never ever understand why in the heck i get criticized on this forum for asking this.... WTF?
Seriously, no one would complain about "too much bracing" - great internal bracing with lots of it is always a good thing, as are nice beefy cross over networks with quality caps and resistors.
Not speaking for Klipsch but perhaps their view is to simply let people judge their speakers by how they sound and NOT by inferences they draw by viewing blueprints and schematics?
As for your belief that there can never be "too much bracing", I respectfully disagree. Any bracing beyond what is necessary to eliminate audible resonances simply increases manufacturing, weight and shipping shipping costs. ..If it doesn't improve the sound then why bother?? ..My Klipsch Cornwalls clearly don't have an abundance of bracing - knock on the cabinets and you'll hear they sound quite hollow. Still, they sound fabulous - incredibly smooth, no smearing, no strain at any reasonable volume AND not a hint of resonance. So what would have been gained by add'l bracing? They already weigh 100lbs ea.
I understand that a lot of speaker companies (particularly consumer, not so much pro-audio) make a huge deal about eliminating cabinet resonances but how much of this is necessary and how much is marketing hype? ..My Paradigms and Vandersteens had very inert cabinets, yet my new Cornwall III's - which are far more hollow sounding by comparison (when you rap on them w/your knuckles) - sound better in every respect! I think eliminating audible resonances is easily achieved w/ out the use of excessive internal bracing through thoughtful cabinet design, and dampening material inside the cabinet.
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6 hours ago, dtel said:
Since your room is large and you have 3 Cornwall lll's already I would keep them. To me I wouldn't sell off the Cornwalls to get the new Forte's, they do sound different from each other but not enough to say switch. After having 3 Cornwall lll's I would think you would miss some bass in that trade, even just in stereo without a sub you would probably like the Cornwalls better. Just my feelings, I have both here but never tried them side by side.
Edit; I like both designs, but they do sound different from each other. If I were standing in a showroom listening to both designs and they were the same price it would be a really tough choice.
I listened to both the F3's and CW3's extensively before buying the CW3's. ..To my ears, they were a draw (and sounded very much alike - could not pick a preference) w/ respect to smoothness and imaging. ..But in terms of dynamics and bass extension, the CW's won pretty decisively. ..Which they probably should given their greater cabinet volume and cost (>$1200). That said, if I was budget or space constrained, I would have been happy w/ the F3s. Since I was not, I could not be happier w/ my choice.
Is the newer horn on the F3 supposed to represent an improvement? Are people just assuming it's better b/c it's newer?
Edit: My hunch is that some Cornwall loyalists are annoyed that it now shares drivers w/ the lowly Heresy - but why would that be bad? The Heresy is awesome!
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On 1/13/2018 at 4:58 PM, USNRET said:
@Khornukopia driving systems notwithstanding any comparison CW III vs Forte III come to mind?
..I listened pretty extensively to the Forte III's before buying the Cornwall III's. ..To my ears, they were a draw in terms of smoothness and imaging but the CW III's had significantly greater bass extension and dynamic impact. ..Of course, one should expect this given their greater size and cost.
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2 hours ago, dtel said:
Thought you all might like to see some Cornwall lll's being made including spraying with clear. This finish is Walnut, Aug 2006.
Very cool seeing how these are made - thanks!! ..A couple comments: First, why isn't the fellow applying stain/ clear coat wearing a respirator! Klipsch! ..For the love of your employees, make this mandatory!
And secondly (and of far lesser importance), it looks like this speaker is made of plywood, rather than MDF as mentioned in their literature. Not that that matters much to me, but it's interesting.
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17 hours ago, dtel said:
I think they all have clear on them now, could be why they feel sticky immediately.
Agreed, my new Cornwalls do appear to have some sort of a clear coat.
Doesn't it seem strange that Klipsch doesn't provide detailed instructions on how to care for the finish of their Heritage speakers? Particularly when being hand-made using carefully matched veneers is one of their signature features.
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A very elegant installation - I love it!! ..So clean that I must implore you to find a better solution for your antenna than tacking it to the wall
That wood color on your Heresy's is manficient! ...And I love the retro look of the Yamaha integrated too. (Long live integrated amps w/ Tone Controls!)
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Got it, thanks all!!
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I've come across a lot of comments here about restoring older Heritage speakers but nothing about what special care, if any, new speakers require. Curiously, there is nothing from Klipsch about this in the Owners manual. My C3's are finished in Cherry and reside in a room with quite a bit of sunlight. ..I've already noticed the color deepening, which is totally fine by me.
Thoughts on how to keep the finish at it's best?
As an aside, I'm loving my Cornwall iii's! I couldn't be happier. ..As I keep saying, I've never been more eager to sit and listen to music as I am now.
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2 hours ago, moray james said:
I think that I would swap your grills and here's why. The inside edges of the two speakers are right next to your component cabinet and that position makes seeing the Klipsch Pie's easy. When out on the far outside position (where I would normally install them) as you have them now they won't be as easily appreciated (seen) being two feet farther away and at a more obscure angel as seen when standing at the components. Great looking room and speakers, congratulations and enjoy. Regards moray james.
..I see you share my appreciation for the finer details
Thx!
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9 minutes ago, wstrickland1 said:
gorgeous but the badge on the left speaker looks about 1/32nd more inward that the right one
Hahaaa. I’m doing my best to not over scrutinize. 😉
I'm a Believer! (another cable story)
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
Convenient no, but certainly feasible for most people (after all, not everyone has Khorns).
And think of future savings that would arise from this. To discover for oneself that there are no audible differences b/w (suitable for the purpose) interconnects and speaker cables, etc... could save an audiophile hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars and prevent endless bouts of audiophile neurosis. This experiment certainly brought my buying anything pricier than radio-shack grade wiring to a very abrupt end. I’m thankful for the lesson.
I've also done this to test the notion of speaker break-in. With both my Paradigm S8's and Vandersteen 3A sigs, I Played one of the new pair overnight, then played both side by side. Again, a myth (imho)