DizRotus

The subject of the post, ". . . What's better?", was not intended to request a specific suggestion for a specific custom application. Implicit in the post was the assumption that the K33 is a compromise in each of its stock Klipsch applications and that something might be better for each. Again, I acknowledge that the K33 is a bargain such that looking further with respect to otherwise stock Klipsch applications makes little sense or no cents.

Thank you. At first I thought your sense of humor was way too subtle, even for me.

I have winISD. If you would send the file to me at nkdisney@comcast.net I would be grateful. I accept the fact that, at $129 each, the K33 is a bargain and not much of a compromise. Nevertheless, I still want the specifications. See the "Four abused La Scalas . . ." thread in the General Questions Forum. one of the two that I will soon acquire to then provide to a high school band, apparently, has a new Eminence Gamma 8 ohm replacement woofer. I've already ordered a K33 to substitute for the Gamma, but I'd like to have the K33 specs for future reference. I'm curious about the differences between the Gamma and the K33. Since I have an opportunity to A/B the two, I'd like to know the differences, at least on paper.

Can someone provide, or point me to, the specifications for the K-33E? Im sure this has been addressed many times, but my use of the Search function failed to produce the desired results.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Many here feel that Klipsch products are already audio perfection and that what was good enough for PWK should be good enough for the rest of us. In their stock form, Klipsch Heritage speakers are already better than most other commercially available products, but compromises were made that hobbyists need not make. In addition to being an audio genius, PWK seems to have been an astute businessman. For example, an audio purist would have routed the front baffle boards of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Cornwall, etc. to mount the horns flush. Instead, PWK cut holes and screwed the lenses to the backs so that the horns mouths fired through 1/2" plywood windows. The purist would have gone broke years ago. He did it because tests proved to him that, It doesnt make a dimes worth of difference. His frequent use of that dime phrase suggests that many decisions were cost based (as they should be in a business) rather than intended to achieve audio perfection. He said the same thing about the 18 gauge zip cord used inside Klipsch speakers. The fact that Klipsch uses the same woofer (correct me if thats incorrect) in Cornwall (ported), La Scala (truncated folded horn) and Klipschorn (longer folded horn) seems to be more a nod to cost control and production simplification, than an optimization for each application. If my assumption is correct, it seems that many other drivers would have better specifications for each application. Intuitively, it seems that the best woofer for a Cornwall would not be the best woofer for a La Scala, Klipschorn, etc. I can accept the reality that normal humans might not be able to detect differences between the optimal driver and a K-33 in any of the subject enclosures. That said, if a better suited driver is available, Id like to know so that I can decide if I want to use it. As hobbyists, especially DIY types, we have an opportunity to avoid some of the compromises that were made by Klipsch to simplify production and maximize margin. A dime of difference, when multiplied by thousands, could have made the difference between profit and loss. Dollars of difference should not deter the hobbyists who are investing considerable time and money to improve their systems.

What bass driver did you select, and what do you plan to do with the K33Es?

It was sometime in the mid-70s. The Stereo Shoppe in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />East Lansing, Michigan put on a clinic at a convention center in Lansing, Michigan. Klipsch had a 3 channel setup with Khorns and a Belle. PWK spoke and demonstrated the 3 channel system.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Following the program, we were talking in the hall. In rapid fire succession the topics included minimum wage, whiskey, kit speakers in general, Speakerlab speakers, in particular, and the discussion previously quoted. He was surprisingly diplomatic regarding my confession that I used four Speakerlab SKhorns in a mobile DJ business. He clearly indicated that he felt Speakerlab SKhorns were poor imitations. Nevertheless, he also expressed the opinion that it was better that knockoffs were subjected to the abuses of constant relocation, 600 watts of SS power and junior high schoolers. Prior to the Patrician comment he had expressed the opinion that licensing was a disappointment as he disliked having his name associated with what he felt were inferior products of spotty quality and over which he had no control. He was forceful, opinionated, and had a wicked sense of humor, but he did not come across as pompous or overbearing. Even so, I wouldnt have wanted him angry with me. I was impressed with his apparently genuine interest in discussing, yet again, things audio with a young whipper snapper. On a more serious note, it's my understanding that, even with 18" drivers, the EV/Klipsch folded horns don't go substantially, if any, lower. To get lower frequencies out of a Khorn type folded horn, the size of the horn would have to be MUCH larger than the standard Khorn. It's a non-linear relationship, similar to the relationship between power and volume. To double volume it typically takes approximately ten times the power. Marginal increases in power produce very little increase in volume. Similarly, marginal increases in woofer size (15" to 18") and small increases in the size of the bass bin/horn might produce more efficiency or better dynamics, but its not going to produce lower bass.

Patrician you say? For a Halloween treat I'll again repeat my PWK Patrician anecdote. The one and only time I met and spoke with PWK we were discussing his disappointment with licensing Klipsch's patents to other manufacturers, e.g., Electro-Voice.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Suddenly, he shifted the topic to the relative merits of various malt whiskeys. Then, just as suddenly, he asked me, "Do you know what a Patrician is?" Before I could reply that it is an Electro-Voice speaker he said, "A Patrician is someone who steps out of the shower to take a leak." Meeting and speaking with him was unforgettable. I never met anyone else like him.

Ok, I confess, I have no idea what you mean by "speakon" wiring problem. What could these La Scalas have other than binding posts or barrier strips? Please elaborate.

You've probably seen this http://www.volvotreter.de/ He uses one "Klipschorn" bass bin as a sub.

Where can you get the cabs for nearly nothing? I'd say do it. Especially if you're not relying on the bass bins for anything above 100 Hz or below 30Hz. I prefer the clean slam of Klipsch bass bins within their limits to the lower bass produced by DRs. I'd like to see and hear what you're doing. I've entertained similar notions, but running a business and Seaholm's football concession stand prevents me from having the time.

Howdy neighbor! I agree completely regarding the x-overs in Speakerlab SKHorns. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> I sort of agree regarding using Speakerlab bass bins as a DIY starting point. Your math is correct, but, SK bass bins, plus Atlas squawker drivers and trachorns, plus K-33s, plus ALK clones, plus Beyma CP-25s, would result in a better sound than a stock Khorn, which might justify the cost differential. Thanks for your kind offer regarding Seaholm's La Scalas. Do you want to ride to Ft. Wayne next Monday? You'd get to meet the inimitable Michael "Curly" Colter.

The seller appears to state that only one speaker plays when hooked up in parallel, but both play when hooked up in series (daisy-chain). What could be going on here?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Klipsch La Scala / Speakon / NR<?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /> The seller said, "One problem I've noticed is when the speakers are run in stereo, only one will work. If I daisy-chain them together, they both work great. I have never come across this problem in my entire career which spans more years than I care to think about. At first I thought it might be a bad amp, but I have hooked them up to several amps, including a new Behringer powered mixer, and still get the same result. This could be something simple, but I'm not a tech head."

Did you have a pair similar to these? If so, when? When did Speakerlab die in its original incarnation? <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> I bought four 8 ohm SKhorns in 1976 to use in a mobile DJ business. They had aluminum 350 horns (Atlas drivers) and EV T-35 tweeters. In parallel, the 8 ohm loads were 4 ohms for the Dynaco ST-400, i.e., 300 WPC. My ears are still ringing. The bass was very good! Im curious about your comment regarding the woofer. Why do you think the woofer was junk? As I recall they did not have foam surrounds. Do you feel that they were just junk period? These still seem like an opportunity for someone to end up with "Khorns" on the cheap. If they dont sell for at least $850 (likely), the seller would probably entertain offers. New woofers would cost $129 each. Would it be possible to attach T-35 metal lenses to the existing magnet/diaphragm structures? This is all academic, as I have neither the time, nor the space to consider such a project. Its all I can do to find the time to drive to <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Ft.Wayne to meet with Curly Colter to collect 2 of the Four abused La Scalas . . . that will need work (more time) before they can be presented to the high school band for their practice room.

Who cares? You could do a fair amount of fixing and still have a great bargain. Congratulations.

I won't be complaining. Glad to get matching tweeters. I'll order a K33 from Bob Crites and sell the Gamma, unless you want it. See you on the 7th in Fort Wayne. You pick a good meeting place where we can enjoy lunch before our return trips.

Tweeter.

Atlas midrange drivers.

The seller replied to my email and attached photos. One is attached to this post and two more are attached to subsequent posts. He bought them used and does not know their age. They must be some of the last that Speakerlab made. I've never seen any without EV T-35 or 3500 tweeters.

I don't blame her. Thanks for letting me know.

You could be right. They do appear to be new. In any case, they work well. I doubt that anyone would view these as having collector value tied to authenticity.

Youre correct about the Radio Shack drivers. They were generously given to me by Forum member, Klipschguy. Apparently Fostex made the speakers for Radio Shack, which sold them for about $5.00 each. The speakers have FE 103 printed on the magnets. They sound better than the other drivers (most more expensive) that I've tried in the enclosures. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> The speaker is not a transmission line, but rather a rear horn made from plans prepared by Fostex. If youre interested you can read more about it at: Single Driver Rear Horn ExPeriments .

It's OK if you don't want an extra Gamma. Does one of two remaining have the K33 or are they both Gammas? The purchaser of the OLD KLIPSCH KLIPSCHORN UNIVERSITY STEPHENS SPEAKERS does indeed appear to be the Eric from Belgium who is interested the '56 Khorn cabinet and juke boxes. The buyer's eBay name is "Jukeric" and he has 100% positive feedback from 148 transactions. If he was willing to pay $456.52 for the 1954 components and $150 for a 130# empty cabinet to be shipped to Belgium he certainly wants to complete this project more than you or I do.

She doesn't want Cornwalls, La Scalas, you name it. Her dislike has nothing to do with performance or finish. It's more a matter of bulk. I do not want them, because . . . . I don't want them. The Advents sound as good as they did when they were new, but they don't sound as good as my homemade speakers, Heresys or Cornwalls.

The Belgian continues to clamor for the 56 Khorn. Apparently, he has local contacts that purchase juke boxes on his behalf and ship them to <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Belgium. I think he bought the 1954 Klipsch/University/Stephens components that were recently for sale on eBay.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> I spoke with one of his local contacts. Arrangements are being made to exchange $150 cash for the 56 cabinet next week. It would then go to Chicago (a juke box show is being held there) where it would join a container of juke boxes headed to Belgium. Michael, only you can stop this fifty-year-old plywood folded horn from going to Belgium. Speak now or forever veneer your Cornwalls.

You sure now how to make them sound appealing. I see that Parts Express sells Eminence Gamma-15 300W drivers for $96.99. The specs look good. For all I know it's the functional equivalent of the K33 that was made by Eminence. Would you consider sellng us the one with the K33 and one without a woofer (you keep the new Gamma) to the band? If we could get a credit for the new Eminence Gamma, we'd buy a new K33 for $129, and I'd feel better selling the genuine article to the school. I'd hate to have someone open one up in the future to replace a woofer and find something other than a Klipsch woofer. If you haven't seen the '56 Khorn thread lately, check it out. The Belgian seems for real.