MC39693

I thought I would share a bit of my HT/2 channel meanderings. Feel free to judge and comment, this is simply meant to offer some different ideas. In general I’ve run everything over the years from simple 2 channel to 7.2 HT via Denon AVRs. I’ve used the Denon AVRs also as preamp and various amplifiers to run front L/R in HT mode and the 2 channel. Things were going well. But one can never be finished in this hobby! I won’t dwell on my speaker journey, I’ve owned Klipsch Heresy, changed them and still have a set, owned and enjoyed an RC-7, Cambridge Audio Aero, Martin Logan electrostatics, and Sonus Faber as well as Velodyne sub woofers. The Heresy, total of 4, together with the RC-7 was by far the easiest to setup and excellent for HT. Other combinations have been used mainly for differences in 2 channel. Some time ago I became intrigued with the idea of changing from the convenience of a Denon AVR to separates used for an all digital front end for surround sound and stereo processing, meaning ARC from streaming TV, Apple AirPlay/mirror, music server Flac files, Internet radio, CD/Dvd 5.1 channel audio/BluRay, and TurnTable. Basically I was thinking of replacing a Denon x7200WA AVR I own, and was very fortunate to have acquired at bargain price. This is my 4th Denon and I will say by far the very best AVR. I bought a Cambridge Audio Azur 752BD BluRay player as I like its Wolfson dacs more than the Oppo players Sabre dacs. I got an older Apple TV to do the AirPlay. I needed a phono preamp that would convert TT analogue to digital. I purchased a Parks Audio Waxwing TT preamp. It’s amazing. Bingo all inputs were now digital all managed by the CA BluRay as inputs then on to the Denon as preamp and onwards to Luxman M-02 and R-117 as power amps. I rewired the BluRay to directly connect to my Luxman amps. I set the BluRay to variable volume control and listened to a track from my music server. BUT, no volume control using the BluRay remote control. I checked everything and simply could not get it to work. I opened a help ticket with CA and I read user forums and did searches and finally near midnight I found the all important sentence in the BluRay manual that said the variable volume control by remote controller only works with CA amps. In other words it isn’t affecting the BluRay player but rather sending volume control codes to the amp. This was verified by CA response to my help ticket. I have Luxman amps! So it was either back to the Denon or find a preamp/processor to manage the surround sound codex’s and volume control with all the inputs I needed, HDMI, digital optical and digital coax. There are a few models out there but most were reasonably expensive… I wanted to spend less than $400 CAD. I found an Outlaw 975 processor. Simply put, after a complete rewire, and much testing the Outlaw 975 and CA 752BD have combined to replace the Denon and allows me to use my Luxman amps. I am pleased with the surround codex on the Outlaw and it is easy to switch between surround sound and two channel. The Outlaw only has maximum 1080p video, but all my video is handled by my 4k TV or the BluRay in upscale mode to near 4k quality. The Outlaw remote isn’t the most user friendly but Logitech has the control codes and I’ll load those in my Logitech universal remotes. I will do some more testing but, I think the setup will work. It will allow me to sell the Denon. It’s been a bit of a journey but the audio/video quality is very good and the separates allow me to tailor each input as I want, eg the TT via the Waxwing. My wife never uses the audio gear she only uses the TV with its speakers. She enjoys the audio gear if I manage the technology. So in this round, separates are winning but I will say I miss the convenience of the Denon x7200WA! next up in the never ending journey… are Purifi class D monoblocs better than vintage Luxman amps? I hope this story helps others tackle different ideas to connect up inputs, processors and amps to your Klipsch speakers!

@Jeff Matthews I wouldn’t claim to have heard a modern flagship receiver, a modern flagship AVR if that’s what you meant, yes the Denon x7200 WA while about 3rd in Denon lineup is still pretty formidable. It’s the best AVR I’ve had by a long shot. And I got mine on an incredible deal as a newly minted relationship hinged on a gentleman of similar advanced years as me, was told by his new mate to get the HT stuff out of their abode! Wow. Others on this forum mentioned the R-117 in some writings and that encouraged me to try one, but I had already had an Akai AM-2850 and liked its sound. I’ve owned Parasound A23 as a power amp too. It was good but to my ears nothing stood out vs the vintage receiver sound which I would describe as more full bodied and with more warmth perhaps some would call distortion… whatever it is, my ears like it. BestBuy has gone way downhill here in Canada. You have to find a reasonable audio shop or… cast your net into US Audio Mart BUYER BEWARE.

Sorry for the confusion if any, the Waxwing is for real time digital conversion of my TT, not to create a digital file. But, Yes FLAC is the way I went for files, on a music server.

@Jeff Matthews, I should also mention… since you posted under Home Theater … if you want to use your Khorns for HT audio … if your TV has an ARC HDMI output, then an AVR that supports ARC input would be useful. In my setup the Denon x7200 supports ARC with my TV, bingo 5.2 channel surround sound. The Khorns would be light years ahead of tv speakers. Hence ARC integration is a plus in favour of an AVR. There are other ways to integrate ARC into a setup, eg Oppo BluRay players and Cambridge Audio 752/CXU players support ARC. Both sets of players have analogue, digital optic or coaxial and HDMI output so connecting further in your setup is possible although you are then wondering away from simple and easy to use! But, this step lets you use any of the amplifier options to integrate ARC. Many TVs also support digital optical audio output so you can get audio out to an AVR or a BluRay player that way too. Not sure that helped in your decision process! MC

I have used the following; 1 - Denon AVR x7200Wa. Excellent AVR with 150 watts in 2 channel, great DAC, and tons of preamp inputs and controls. Strongly suggest this AVR unless you have 8K video in which case you have to go up to the 8500 model. The negative for an AVR in 2 channel only mode is you are paying for a lot of amplifiers you will not be using. 2 - Luxman M-02 power amp. Sound depends on the preamp input which will also depend on DAC if you use digital front ends. Excellent sound when I paired it with a Cambridge Audio 752BD as DAC and as the stereo amp connected to the above Denon as preamp. The positive and negative is you need a preamp of some sort. But you use exactly what you pay for, 2 channels of amplification. 3 - Vintage integrated receiver. Ah, now this is good. Luxman R-117. Has a preamp for analogue inputs only, you need a separate DAC to handle digital inputs. Lots of power, 160 watts into 8 ohms. And, the Luxman R series have a remote control. I used all three above with Heresy speakers and others I won’t mention. My favourite… the Luxman R-117. Others I used, Akai AM-2850. An AM-2950 would be equal to the R-117 although no remote control but the Akai has VU meters if you like to watch your music! The AVRs offer one package convenience, power amps the most targeted value for money and the integrated receiver right down the middle. A used vintage integrated might do the trick. Of course there are concerns with age of the electronics. I had my R-117 refurbished as soon as I got it. Every electrolytic capacitor was replaced, solder traces verified, factory setting adjustments and new 5 way binding posts… $750 Canuck bucks. It’s good for the long run now. Good luck with your selection process! @Jeff Matthews

Thought I would comment on the Waxwing and Shannon Parks. Simply put both are outstanding. Just bought a mint used Waxwing, installed between Luxman PD-289 Ortofon 2M Bronze then digital out via fiber optic to Cambridge Audio 752BD which is my hub for all sources. You might think AtoD then DtoA won’t sound good but you just might be surprised. The Waxwing has a plethora of attributes to manage cartridges and LP quality. Shannon answered questions via email at 7 PM on a Sunday night, to a potential customer, what more can I say?

@Pak323 I hope they sound as good as they look. Really well done in keeping vintage speakers going! We'll get a time together hopefully and have a listen to both sets; the 1980 you've updated and my "changed" 1984 in honour of the women and men who built both sets more than 40 years ago!

@Pak323, I like it! Don’t loose those grills and badges if you display open to show off that blue! May you enjoy them for 40+ years as I did. Still listening to my highly changed 1984s in original walnut veneer, grills etc. going to be 40 this year too.

@Pak323 Wow, ok, the last time I saw that was maybe April 1981. I was working on an assignment in Edmonton when I bought them and took them up to Ft. McMurray when I was finished that work and I think that is when I stained them. Are you going to stain them or paint them? What a journey!

@Pak323, I can tell you that, I did not do anything to the front board, so perhaps someone else can answer from experience. As others have noted, I’d mask it off, sand, clean and paint. If you search the forum you can find the correct black paint to buy, I might have some around the house. I’m pretty sure I bought a small container at Home Depot. Keep posting pictures, I’m enjoying the journey. I searched and couldn’t find the paint, but searching the forum there’s a lot of discussion on paint. It sounds like #40 Valspar SSG Black is what you are looking for… Rona or Lowe’s may have it? Search the forum for words Valspar Black etc and you’ll find lots of discussion on the paint. I thought I bought it at Home Depot, but maybe Rona or Lowe’s all of which we have here. Good luck.

My 1984 which I believe were the unofficial 1.5 variations have the full removable back panel.

Agree with @JohnA that putting "damping" material around the K-700 did not produce a noticeable change, and I've tried multiple types of material. Having said that, I think it did not decrease SQ and the cost was negligible. WRT the caps. There has been and will continue to be enough discussion around caps to fill the Internet. I offer simply from the OEM site "All Jantzen Z-caps are nitrogen filled, which means that you get more foil per capacitor and no risk of the evaporation that can occur in oil/dielectric fluid filled capacitors." Ok, well yes it's nice to not worry about evaporation or leakage of liquid. I selected those caps after much reading on University of Google. Some know of a site that does qualitative listening and commentary. That site/owners/commentators have been called some names I don't appreciate and I doubt they would either. They simply provide their impression of the sound from various caps, what you as the consumer of such information do with it is entirely up to you. For me their site provided a starting point in comparison of capacitors with a relative impression of SQ produced and subsequent continue investigation on my part for those which fit my budget and were available. WRT the word "upgraded". The forum has requested we not use that word or "updated". I simply say, changed. The other components are quality components within again a budget, eg I did not pay for someone to hand wind an air core inductor or to use precious metal foil. I purposefully did not change the scheme employed, I believe PWK created the design with significantly more capability than I have. I was attempting to return the speakers to a sound I "remembered", and compare them to other changed speakers with crossovers that have significant schematic alterations. Each has its place. The final arbiter of the word "upgraded" are the ears of the owner, @Pak323 although I believe he said these are his first of this type of speaker. I wish him much enjoyment and success in his plans to change the cabinet finish and perhaps I'll catch up to him one day and see his handy work. MC p.S. More fuel for debate club… when I sold the speakers they included 4 post homemade stands that put the squeaker at my ear height in my listening chair. The design was so a small, closed, front firing sub woofer could be placed in the bottom. Maybe not optimal from a SQ perspective but definitely helpful with WAF. I’ve tried tilting speakers, not with nice stands but just simply and did not like the result. There are good threads on the forum discussing the relative merits of various stands and indeed no stands. I hope @Pak323 can use the stands for something if not as the intended speaker stands.

Tuna crudo, scallop crudo, tuna ceviche. Raw spot prawn right out of the ocean, although that was a while ago.

Which is why I liked V1.

@Pak323 best wishes with the speakers. When they left my care, the sound quality was very good. I don’t come around too often, so don’t get discouraged if I don’t answer a PM promptly. I will say from the pictures you posted, the outside of the cabinets were in better shape when I sold them, the internals look consistent with what I recall. @Woofers and Tweeters, you are too kind… these speakers were the ones I learned on thanks to the many contributors on this forum. MC

@Pak323 sir, I am the original owner and modifier of those speakers, the original documentation is in 1980 Heresy under the Ask the Historian section. I owned them for 42 years. After the thread I note above, I made three rounds of modifications. I’ll honour the current requirements of this forum and will not mention third party items specifically but here is the gist of the changes, 1 - being raw birch HBR from the factory, I stained them light oak and several coats of clear Varathane in 1980. The smears on the motor board I do not recall, but perhaps I am the culprit although I’ll check for photos of the motor board before they left my house. I am pleased to hear you have the original grills and badges as they were in excellent condition when I sold the speakers in Sept, 2023. Be very careful in sanding the motor board, you should remove the drivers so they don’t get dust in them. Otherwise you’ll need to do a very good job of masking them all before sanding. You can look up the type of black paint Klipsch used when you touch up the sanding. 2 - I cleaned the internal cabinet, sealed all seams and lined with 1/8 inch neoprene using velcro dots to hold in place. I also put neoprene on the back hatch ledge I believe, to help make it air tight. I read everything I could on this and other forums about crossovers at 40 years of age and decided to change the E crossovers out. I used quality parts within my budget. At the time I made the crossover, the current JEM direction was not in place. If you want details on the pieces I selected, PM me and we can discuss. I am ok with a soldering iron, functional not a Michaelangelo. At this time I replaced the back panel terminal blocks with 5 way binding posts. The old capacitors were in good shape and within spec for capacitance but I don’t have an ESR meter so can’t speak to that attribute. The capacitors I selected were well researched, excellent reviews and within budget, aka not $500 each! I used the best solid core inductor I could find, not wanting to switch to a large air core. I purchased a new auto transformer with similar specs to the original. These didn’t have to be done but I wanted to do the whole crossover. The new crossovers brought the speakers back to what I remembered as to original sound, I fully acknowledge builder’s bias and weak sound memory of 40 years prior! 3 - The last Change was to internal wiring as I found some light corrosion on soldered connections on the tweeter. So I changed out all the wiring taking into consideration what I felt was suitable for each specific driver. I wrapped the K-700 horn in adhesive backed felt, the black is simple electrical tape for which I apologize but I wanted a second adhesive. I used tie wraps in other applications and was not pleased with the result. All the drivers were original. All tested within specs, but I did not run any frequency checks. All notions of sound quality are “my ears” and totally subjective. i hope that answered your questions, send a PM if you would like more details . Imagine my surprise when I saw your post and the speakers I once owned. I sold them in Sept 2023 in Victoria BC after I purchased other speakers about which I will remain silent. MC

@Pak323 a few questions; 1 - did you purchase from original owner and person who made the changes? Where did you purchase them, you didn’t list a location. 2 - do the speakers sound good to you? Regardless of “parts” debate your ears are really all that matter. 3 - did the speakers come with grills hence the varnish on the motor board can be aesthetically managed? 4 - is the motor board varnish affecting the sound?

I've had Klipsch mostly for 40+ years, my Klipsch lasted because of my ability to repair and change them, thanks to this forum. But as time moves on, the forum moves on and I have moved on from Klipsch. Over time I've moved to Sonus Faber bookshelf speakers, amazing sound, with twin Velodyne DD10. Other Sonus Faber coming eventually. As some have stated above, if you don't give other speakers a shot you don't know what you don't know. Enjoy the music!

@OO1 Sorry for your loss. Dogs are loyal, devoted, loving creatures … keep your fond memories close .

The two posts by @Travis In Austin make it clear, as we all knew, that the forum is untenable. You cannot promote “free” speech discussions in an OEM controlled forum while protecting IP, trademarks, goodwill etc for the manufacturer’s products. Nor should the OEM do so for a forum so dominated by people who provide such a small revenue stream. post a shutdown date, and turn off the lights. Thanks to one and all, I’ve learned a lot.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned Janet Evanovich’s Stephanie Plum series… bounty hunter lady who has some very crazy friends and adventures. Makes me laugh to the point people ask if I am ok.

Best wishes to all, and to all a good night! @YK Thom stay warm!

Double Dutch line dance!

I have both Gaucho and Aja on vinyl, not remastered. I like vinyl. But, admit that CD burned to FLAC on my music server feeds my random, can't stay on one track problem! I suppose it depends on whether you want to convenience of digital or the relaxed, sit back with bevie experience of vinyl?

I think there are other members on Vancouver Island, perhaps silent. Lots of CAM members on the Island. I've been too busy this year with house renos, family matters, daughter's wedding etc. that I haven't had time to chase any folks down.