[Chief Bonehead Class Spring 2024 - New Iterations of the La Scala and Klipschorn Coming]

2 hours ago, Ponch0069 said:

Good! Because I upgraded my preamp and amps to a McIntosh C8 tube preamp and a pair of MC830 SS mono-blocks just over a year ago but that was before the La Scala’s were in the picture of being my replacement speakers. I’m a little relieved since all I read about is tube amps being used. I auditioned the La Scales in 3 different shops around the country and all of them used SS amps that sound fantastic to me. Now it looks like I need to find a 4 channel amp. The chase is never over?

 

Four-channel?  If you are considering waiting for the new La Scala version, you'll need a 6-channel amp (or two 3-channel or three 2-channel or six monoblocks... 😁).  I've already purchased two additional stereo amps in anticipation of the upgrade kit.  Got a good deal on two more demo units of the stereo amp I'm currently using with my AL5s.

[New Klipsch Jubilee owner]

1 hour ago, kippy said:

There is some finicky work in arriving at the right mix of HF + LF in the cabinets.

 

Be aware, the level controls on the DSP are NOT tone controls, they are gain controls.  They are meant to be used when you are using different amplifiers with different gains for HF and LH, for example using tubes for HF and solid state for LF.  If the amps for HF and LF are identical, the controls should be at the same position on both.  I asked Klipsch Chief Engineer Roy Delgado (@Chief bonehead here on the Forum) about this.  He said since I'm using identical amps to just set both gain controls to the 12 o'clock position.

[New Klipsch Jubilee owner]

Congrats on the purchase and welcome to the Forum and the Heritage Jubilee owners club.  Read through my post here for my experiences after having them in my home for three months, which is the point where I finally got them dialed in where I wanted.

 

The biggest consideration for amplifies is the noise floor.  If the amps are not very quiet, you will hear the amp noise.  I imagine the Mcintosh amps will be fine.

 

You will most likely not need a subwoofer.  The Jubilee is designed to have response down to 18 Hz (-1.75 dB) in half-space, meaning on the ground away from any room boundaries.  In all real listening rooms, these will be close enough to the walls or corners for some room gain, making them go even deeper.  I had to do a deep bass cut in my room and even with that the -3 dB point is 16 Hz.  They can put out gargantuan amounts of deep bass.  I suggest you listen and decide if you need more.  I didn't.

[PWK Birthday Bash 2024 - Activities and Pictures]

3 hours ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

My guess is KPT-684 with KI-396 on top. 

 

Winner, winner.  Chicken dinner.  That's what they were.

[Klipsch Bells Production Numbers]

2 hours ago, Khornukopia said:

 

This thread should help guide you,  

 

 

@Khornukopia - Thanks for linking my thread.  @Philip McDonald - Read through my thread before starting to disassemble the Belles.  If you have any questions during disassembly, send me a message.

 

[Chief Bonehead Class Spring 2024 - New Iterations of the La Scala and Klipschorn Coming]

2 hours ago, pnort said:

Will I be able to upgrade a pair of 1972 Khorns?

 

Very unlikely.  Any upgrade kit for these coming La Scala and Khorn changes will likely be limited to AL5/AK6 owners, because the horn for current Celestion tweeter (which is being carried over from the AL5/AK6) would require cabinet changes to accommodate it.  I don't know if Klipsch would sell the kit plus the current tweeter assembly to those with older models who are willing to do the cabinet changes themselves.

[Chief Bonehead Class Spring 2024 - New Iterations of the La Scala and Klipschorn Coming]

3 hours ago, babadono said:

Does Klipsch DSP quantize@ 24 bit 48kHz or 96kHz? Or something different?

 

I asked Roy about this when the Jubilee came out, but I forget the answer except that I do remember that it exceeded the 24/96 of the Xilica.

[Chief Bonehead Class Spring 2024 - New Iterations of the La Scala and Klipschorn Coming]

56 minutes ago, Marvel said:

This pic looks like there is a hole to the bass bin from the top hat, and a round hole in the back for a passive radiator, i.e., port.

It would be nice to know.

 

 

 

These prototypes are using standard AL5 cabinets.  That bottom hole is just for the wire from the bass bin to come through to go to the crossover, which is in the top cabinet on the AL5.  The terminal cup on top of the bass bin is right below that hole.  The round hole in the back is there because with the old, really long K-401 horn, the midrange driver does not fit within the top hat.  The driver sticks into that hole.  I imagine that the rear hole will be eliminated in the new version.

 

[Chief Bonehead Class Spring 2024 - New Iterations of the La Scala and Klipschorn Coming]

2 hours ago, pnort said:

How do you adjust the volume with three amplifiers to get the right balance from the three separate drivers? 

Will I be able to upgrade a pair of 1972 Khorns?

Three amps -- plus maybe a subwoofer amp. I don't suppose high quality tube amps and expensive tubes would be cheaper if they only had to cover the narrower spectral range of each driver.

 

I suppose there's no end in sight--I ducked going from mono to stereo until 1972. Maybe in my 90s I'll go the triple-amp route.

 

The volume adjustment is done with the volume control of the preamp/processor as usual.  The preamp out then goes to the DSP, which divides the frequency spectrum in three outputs per channel.  These outputs then go to the different amp channels.  The DSP will have gain controls to allow adjustment if amplifiers with different gains are used, for example, if you were to use a tube amp for HF and solid-state amps for MF and LF.  If you are using all identical amps all around, then the gain controls all get set the same.  This is how the current Heritage Jubilee operates, except you only need two amp channels per speaker.  https://support.klipsch.com/hc/en-us/articles/7875531269908-Jubilee-Active-Crossover-Controls-Inputs-and-Outputs

 

[Chief Bonehead Class Spring 2024 - New Iterations of the La Scala and Klipschorn Coming]

2 hours ago, ThomBoh said:

So, if I'm understanding right, if one wanted to go the DSP route, it will absolutely be required to have three separate stereo power amps, one for each frequency range? (e.g. one amp driving left hf and right hf, one amp driving left mids and right mids, and one amp driving left lf and right lf)? Can't get away with, say, two amps?

 

Even if you don't factor in the cost of tri-amping, it sounds like the inclusion of the DSP electronics will mean that these new versions will likely cost significantly more than the AL5 and AK6, which are already very expensive. Exciting but kind of terrifying in that sense.

 

Also, will AL5/AK6 owners be able to upgrade the active DSP xover, or only be able to upgrade the horns and drivers?

 

Yes, for the active DSP crossover configuration, you will need six channels of amplification.  This can be in either multiple chassis (like three stereo amp) or a single chassis (like a six-channel amp as @jjptkd suggested).  I can't speculate whether the DSP will add a "significant" amount to the price or not.  We'll have to wait and see.  I'm sure whatever it is will be worth it for the very significant improvement in the sound quality.  The improvement is not subtle.

 

I assume any upgrade kit would include at minimum the DSP, the K-406 horn, the KT-1133 driver and external phase plug, and perhaps a new input panel with three sets of binding posts.  I think the DSP would be required as I can't imagine the new mid horn/driver would work with the existing AL5/AK6 crossover networks.

[Chief Bonehead Class Spring 2024 - New Iterations of the La Scala and Klipschorn Coming]

4 minutes ago, gigantic said:

Not boosting it down low, but attenuating from about 60 Hz to 300 Hz? Fascinating. I'd love to see the PEQ figures on that, not that it's useful to me, I have a completely different alignment, but it is interesting just the same. There are a number of us elsewhere who are using DSP, but we're getting more extension via DJK mods and unauthorized drivers. I'm particularly curious about the phase and group delays, whether Roy is using 6dB Linkwitz-Riley filters and natural driver roll-off, steeper slopes or a quasi-linear phase alignment. That can have a profound effect on imaging and soundstage presentation. All good stuff!

 

Perhaps @Chief bonehead can comment on your questions.

[Chief Bonehead Class Spring 2024 - New Iterations of the La Scala and Klipschorn Coming]

12 hours ago, winglet said:

Pro LF driver and lots of dsp?

 

Some other Roy wizardry?

 

Nothing has changed with the design of La Scala bass bin or the LF driver.  It's how Roy is using that response with the DSP that makes the difference.  He's doing something he couldn't do in a reasonably sized passive network.  The native response of the La Scala bass bin has a big hump in it.  Because of this, when that response is matched to the mids/highs, the -3 dB point for the bass point ends up in the low 50s.  By using the DSP to flatten out that hump (i.e. cutting it down) and then matching the mids/highs to that flatter bass curve, the -3 dB point for the bass ends up in the mid 40s.  I've heard the AL5 in that Hope lab listening room before.  The low end of the bass wasn't great.  This updated La Scala had really satisfying bass in that room.  Many fewer people will hear this new La Scala and immediately think that they need a sub to go with it.

[Chief Bonehead Class Spring 2024 - New Iterations of the La Scala and Klipschorn Coming]

9 minutes ago, bkwa1959 said:

Did they get any idea of what the cost would be to upgrade a pair of ak-6 Klipschorns 

 

Pricing and release dates were not discussed.

[PWK BIRTHDAY BASH & CHIEF BONEHEAD CLASS - MARCH 7, 8 and 9 - Registration Information]

Hi All.  I decided to start new discussion threads since this one was really an event registration information thread, one for pictures from PWK Birthday Bash in general and one for the Chief Bonehead Class discussing the coming changes to the La Scala and Khorn.

 

 

 

[PWK Birthday Bash 2024 - Activities and Pictures]

The closing evening at the Visitor Center featured good food and live music by the Moss Brothers.

[PWK Birthday Bash 2024 - Activities and Pictures]

The final day of the PWK Birthday Bash featured the Chief Bonehead Class about the changes coming with the La Scala and Khorn. I posted about the class in a separate thread.

 

[PWK Birthday Bash 2024 - Activities and Pictures]

The banner of Mr. K looking out the window of the Visitor at the Birthday Bash in his honor.

[PWK Birthday Bash 2024 - Activities and Pictures]

Friday night at the PWK Birthday Bash featuring Chief Bonehead Fajitas (aka Royjitas) and live music by Dave Almond.

[PWK Birthday Bash 2024 - Activities and Pictures]

The 2024 PWK Birthday Bash was a lot of fun.  Here are some pictures from the different events that I took.  Others who attended are welcome to add theirs to this thread.  Here are a few pictures of people hanging out at the KMAH Visitor Center before the Museum Annual Meeting on Thursday March 7 and then the meeting itself.

[Chief Bonehead Class Spring 2024 - New Iterations of the La Scala and Klipschorn Coming]

[Chief Bonehead Class Spring 2024 - New Iterations of the La Scala and Klipschorn Coming]

The final day of the 2024 PWK Birthday Bash featured the latest Chief Bonehead Class given by Klipsch Chief Engineer Roy Delgado.  The subject of this class was to introduce the changes coming in the next iterations of the La Scala and Klipschorn (presumably the AL6 and AK7 respectively).  We got a tease of the changes at SubFest last fall, but during this class Roy finally revealed the details.  Just remember that all of this information is preliminary and subject to change.

 

The first change is the replacement of the K-401 midrange horn.  The tooling for the K-401 is finally wearing out.  Instead of making new tooling for that old exponential horn design, it was decided that it would finally be replaced with a modern modified Tractrix horn, designated the K-406.  This new horn is much shorter and features a 2” throat and “mumps”.  The horns in the pictures are prototypes in white plastic.  The final version will be the usual black color.

 

The next change is the midrange driver to go with this new horn. This will be the large diaphragm, 2” exit KT-1133-HP compression driver used in the Klipsch Professional line.  An external wide dispersion phase plug will likely be added for use with this driver before production.

 

The last change is the replacement of the passive crossover with an active DSP like the Jubilee.  This now allows time/phase alignment of all drivers.  This also allowed the response to be flattened out, especially the hump in the bass bin range, allowing response to be flat down to 45 Hz.  I forgot to take a picture of the two curves, one with the passive network and one with the DSP, but the difference was night and day.  The curve with the DSP looked ruler flat down to 45 Hz.  However, this also means that the new La Scala and Klipschorn will now require three channels of amplification per speaker.  The question was raised as to whether a passive crossover network option would be offered as some buyers might balk at buying three channels of amp power per speaker.  Roy said this may be an option.  However, a passive crossover network will not provide the time/phase alignment and perhaps not all the response corrections made possible by the DSP.

 

I asked Roy why he didn’t replace the tweeter and midrange horns with a single K-510 horn mated to a Celestion Axi2050 driver and make these speakers two-way active.  He said he didn’t do this for two reasons.  One was that the K-510 is a 500 Hz horn and would not allow proper crossover to the Klipschorn bass bin which can’t get that high.  The other reason was the desire to continue the tradition of providing “upgrade kits” to allow La Scala AL5 and Klipschorn AK6 owners the ability to upgrade their speakers to the latest revision.  The K-406 will have the same mounting screw hole pattern as the K-401, allowing a swap with nothing more than a screwdriver.  I told Roy I’ll be first in line for any upgrade kit for my La Scala AL5 surrounds.  Edit: I forgot to mention, any upgrade kits that might be offered would only be for the La Scala AL5 and the Klipschorn AK6, since only those versions have the Celestion tweeter that will be carried over to the new versions.

 

We then got to hear demos with the new La Scala.  How did all these changes sound?  In a word, astounding.  The improvement is dramatic.  The bottom end sounds fuller, the speaker sounds smoother, and better integrated.  The hint of shoutiness from the K-401 is completely gone.  The improvement is as dramatic as when I head the comparison of the Underground Jubilee and the Hertiage Jubilee.  When Roy later paired the La Scala with the large (18 Hz) Hertiage subwoofer prototype, the sound was as close to the Heritage Jubilee sound as I’ve heard from any other Heritage speaker.  These are not your grandfather’s La Scala.  I imagine the improvement will be similarly dramatic with the Klipschorn as well.  Roy has certainly worked his magic once again.  Roy also mentioned that the La Scala and Klipschorn DSP units may have a subwoofer out for use with the Heritage horn subs.  This was how the demo with the sub was done.  I can’t wait for these new versions to be released.

[PWK BIRTHDAY BASH & CHIEF BONEHEAD CLASS - MARCH 7, 8 and 9 - Registration Information]

I'll be typing up my post event report on the flight home tomorrow.

[PWK BIRTHDAY BASH & CHIEF BONEHEAD CLASS - MARCH 7, 8 and 9 - Registration Information]

9 hours ago, Flevoman said:

I thought I read somewhere some time ago that the Heritage subwoofers would also be discussed or shown here. Is this correct or did I remember this incorrectly?

 

That was done at the SubFest event back in the fall.  Now we have to wait for the actual product release.

 

[Heritage Jubilee in a Small Room – Three Months in]

On 2/14/2024 at 10:31 AM, OilyBoy said:

 

Congrats on joining the HJ club.  I agree with @diamonddelts that you should start a new thread to share your experiences.  Obviously, I dumped most of my learnings at the beginning of this thread.  However, since I'm approaching the 2-year mark of owning these, feel free to tag or message me if you have questions.

[Palladium disassembly]

2 hours ago, Deang said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/266640005569?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=9onz_VZUSIm&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=1fiukgbcsqo&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
 

Seems like a no brainer to me.

 

I suggested the same listing back on page 1 of this thread.  Considering the 8000 Euro investment in the speakers, I thought this was a relatively small price to pay to get them operational again.