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  1. Almost all of these details are not very accurate! Distortion figures: class D amps are about as clean as any other amp when not driven into clipping. Digital class amplifiers can run out of power too, and they will distort the input signal as well. Completely black floor: the amplifier may not add to the noise floor itself (any quality amp will have a very low noise floor figure) but noise floor doesn't come only from an amplifier, it is from bad gain structuring between components- if there's anything boosted uphill of the amp, that will raise your noise floor of your signal, and the amplifier will boost this noise floor so it becomes noticeable in your speakers. Extremely high damping factor: maybe, maybe not: damping factor is completely dependent on the design of the amplifiers output coupling circuitry, and while some amplifiers are designed with to have damping factors, other designs do not address low damping factor as a design feature and they can mid the mall completely! regardless of if it's class d or not. Idle current: class d amplifiers are super efficient amplifier designs, and can produce massive amounts of output power utilizing almost everything that's put into them (very little wasted into heat) but a class d amp sitting at idle is a different story: they do idle low, but not as low as you would want/hope for! They do consume power while idling, and actually they will warm up their heat sinks while idling! That heat comes from input power and is wasted! This makes them less efficient at very low volume or sporadic use (amplification) and sitting idle the rest of the day! Clean/clinical sound generation: when they first came out, class d amplifiers were looked down upon because you could hear them- they did not sound smooth and almost had a "grainy" sound to them! Newer designs have corrected this and made them less grainy, to the point that the graininess is inaudible. Everybody claims that this amplifier is warm, that amplifier sounds different: there's some truth to each amplifier having a sound character different from each other, but the ideal amplifier just makes the signal bigger, not changing it. Any characteristic that can be heard in any amplifier is very subtle and not noticeable at all until a comparison is made using critical listening, and that puts any class a or ab amplifier into the just as "clean" category as a class D- class d actually works like a switching power supply, breaking the waveform into tiny blocks and boosting then each as necessary- by design, this would be less "clinical" than a standard class a or ab which uses standard transistors you amplify the entire waveform as a whole! And by the way analog distortion is much cleaner sounding than digital distortion!!!
  2. You would think that makes sense and it really does, , but with technology you can do great things... every amplifier has capacitors in the power supply that stores energy for quick release when needed, and with today's digital amps, amazing things are possible (look up specs on pro audio brand powersoft K-series amplifiers- no joke!) But in this situation, each amplifier circuit is capable of producing 100 watts into a 6 ohm load (or less into 8 ohms), but the limiting factor is the power supply. Once the supply runs out of power, the amplifiers get choked and cannot produce any more power, and instead take your nice round sine-like waves and chop the tops off making them square waves- that id what will quickly overheat and burn out speakers... but it will only happen when the amp is pushed past it's limit... at normal listening levels you should theoretically be OK, and if you use a powered subwoofer and set your speakers to small, then your removing the bass content from the amps (bass easily uses the most power) so what amount of power you do have will not be wasted on bass! Don't let me mislead you, you will benefit greatly from upgrading your receiver, just understand what's happening!
  3. Wvu is correct about never hearing someones voice moving across the sound stage, but a well mixed movie will have anything from background sounds to special effects moving around the sound stage and the room. Also, depending on what mode your receiver is in, it may send some sound to all three speakers (this is not a "standard" mode for movie or tv, but some music modes do this, and after coming home avg lounging on the couch I realize that someone else in my family messed with buttons and I've been watching TV all night in music mode! Its best to have speakers that match, for the most part, but the center box will do 80-90% of what you are listening to! I'm in the opposite position of you, I have 8x ksb1.1's which was an entry level model from the late 90's (I bought 6 of them new in '98 or 99), and I just upgraded my mains to Rf-3's. The Rf is so much more rich sounding that even after matching volume is night and day difference over the ksb1.1 being used in center! Sounds better in phantom mode or 2-ch mode! I'm going to work in some stuff, probably end up with a better matching center soon...
  4. The problem can be the receiver, and I'm sure that is a limit of the system, but if your more satisfied with other sources, then you "should" get similar results from the dtv broadcasts. Here's some things to look for/consider: 1) digital output is set to digital surround, not 2ch (you said you checked this already...) 2) dynamic range limiter (may be called drc or something) turn this off of its on... this is supposed to allow you to listen at lower volumes and still hear subtle details in the program (by making less difference between low and loud parts of the program), and is also used to limit volume of commercials that are mixed higher than the regular program- but by limiting dynamic range things won't sound as open and big as they were originally recorded.. 3) make sure your watching an HD broadcast- many times non-HD broadcast channels will have audio that is only 2ch, and/or actually re-encoded from an analog 2-ch signal, and will definitely have sub-par quality to pee digital sources. The digital cable provider (whether att, xfinity, directv, or other...) should not be messing with the audio. They may re-encode the video to preserve bandwidth, but the audio doesn't take much bandwidth in comparison and should just be passed through... so if there's poor quality it will be originating at either the studio and/or the source of the content they are playing.
  5. Got the diaphragms in this evening, wow these things blow away the ksb1.1's! One of my boxes seems to play much thinner than the other (drivers are in same polarity) it may be a placement thing (left is close to a corner so I know that adds more reflection coupling for a thicker sound, rt is the middle of the wall). I didn't recap yet (but parts arrived). I flattened out the eq settings on the outputs playing the rf3's, then tried to eq the rt box (thin box) by ear to match the left (which sounds just about the way I think it should) using pink noise from the Yamaha receiver. It's not quite there yet but improved. I could hear some phasing between L and R, not a full polarity swap but something seems off (I did follow polarity marks when re-installing horns) it could also be the different sound from each box when coupled to the room. Hopefully over the weekend I'll have some time to pull out my smaart-live rig and check phase trace of each box to make sitter they're both playing properly, and eq to the room accordingly. Either way, I'm already really happy with what I have so far but I know with a little tweaking it could be better. It is possible that the lack of body in the rt box could be a bad X-over component (hopefully a cap, as that's all I bought!) But even if they are performing as intended, I'm sure brand new 1% Dayton's could make for some improvement! So now I'm looking into trying to find a titanium diaphragm (or driver) that I could fit into my ksb1.1's, to try to make them be a better match to the rf3's. The original driver in the ksb1.1 is a K-94-s. I believe I found a cross reference for that part to a part#125492. On a whim, I'm thinking the K137 or K138 (which were used in newer synergy lines) may fit it (based mostly on pics I found on the net, they look similar in size and mounting to the horn), but I'm not sure if that would be an improvement or a step down (older ksb's were supposedly better sounding than the newer ones!) Not to mention possible X-over mods to make the new driver match properly to the system (I think mine may be 4ohm impedance, newer ones may be 6 or 8 ohm!) If anybody could weigh in on this synergy upgrade idea, please do! (I should have started a new thread but the idea is to make them match the rf3 so it still could fit this thread in my opinion!)
  6. Update- I just ordered Bob Crites replacement diaphragms for these. I decided to keep these as close to if not better than oem (IE titanium- as I plan on finding a matching center and don't want to still not have a match!) He doesn't have a crossover package/kit for these, so using the published schematic from this website, I ordered capacitors from parts express to re-cap the crossovers which are almost 20 yrs old now. As for the hard to find value: 5.5uH, I decided to use a 2.2 and 3.3 in parallel. All components I picked are Dayton 1% except for the 12uH if I remember right, which I bought the 5%. I will probably fix both horns, listen real quick, then re-cap one box and compare before doing the other box. Hopefully I will have this put to bed by the end of this weekend (but it's hard to schedule extra-curricular activities in my life right now, so we'll see!) -AshayinFla
  7. I'm sure there is plenty of info online regarding how to use REW, and I will admit that I am not familiar with the program myself (well that particular program). In the pro audio world, there are a couple of products similar to what REW does, and tons more info on how to use them... these programs are more of a "tool" that helps YOU to adjust things to work most efficiently with each other or within the room; it doesn't automatically give you the proper settings! With that in mind, you kinda need to become a bit of an acoustical engineer and get a good understanding of coupling (or decoupling) of multiple sources of a sound (that includes a single source with reflections off of walls or large pieces of furniture, which will appear as multiple sources to the fft analyzer, and mess with your measurement results!) If you can find a free class for live sound engineers to learn about line arrays, most of these are 75% acoustics that can relate to any speakers, and 25% (or less) manufacturer/product specific. Meyer Sound usually gives free classes (go to their website to see where and when) and many other companies have classes that may or may not be free (L-acoustics, eaw, Jbl pro, Martin audio, D&B Audioteknik, etc). The software used by most professionals is called Smaart Live, and although it's a different program, I'm pretty sure it does the same thing (arguably better or with more features) but the real challenge is understanding what it's measuring and what to look for in the readings, not necessarily where a particular button is in the program (once you know what you're looking for you'll probably find that button pretty easily!) So I recommend looking at smaart live training videos as well (or possibly their in-person training seminars, although I think there's a big push to purchase the software in those), as you will gain a wealth of knowledge, most of what will translate directly to the use of REW.
  8. I know all of this is out of the price range of the thread starter (sorry to hijack your thread!) But QL is practically a CL with a few less knobs, built in I/O interface (16 or 32 in X 8 or 16 out as opposed to 8x8 on-board all the CL models- no need to rely on outboard Rio units; but both come with redundant dante connection as standard, not an add-on option) and slightly less processing power (one less rack of eq's, still 8 fx processors and 8x premium processors, All have the same available fx/proc's available) The "auto-mixer" you mention is the Dan Dugan processor (which can take over 1/2 of your eq page for 8ch, or your full page for 16ch) and is essential for corporate work or theater where you have multiple mics in a room with spoken word and only one or two people actually talking at a time- when you open many mics at once within a fairly close vicinity, they all tend to pick up lower frequency sound together and it all adds up, causing low frequency feedback before any of the mics have actually reached a good level individually- Dugan auto-mixer monitors signals (via post-fader insert), and uses real-time monitoring and what seems like expanding/gating on every mic. Only opening the ones with more signal (person/people speaking) and if there is more than one mic with similar signals it opens them both up, reducing each one's level by a ratio relatives to how much input level is on each one- so two equal-level channels will have a cut of 6db per channel (when they add together you get 0db) and the more mics with similar signal, the more it cuts from each one so when they All add up/mix together is the same level as one mic- in the end, it doesn't "build the mix for you" (contrary to how the name implies) but YOU build the mix and control the level of each mic, and the Dugan automatically closes out any mic with out a usable signal and regulated open mics so you don't have mics adding up extra room noise and possible feedback. The end result is a much cleaner sounding output signal (compared to a room with 8-16 mics all open) and transparent opening and closing of the mics between speakers (people speaking, not transducers)! It is a must have when using lavalier mics or table top panel discussions! On a corporate stage I often put everything into it- lavs, ear mics, podiums, q&a handhelds, it always works flawlessly! But it will wreak havoc on your musical mix so avoid using it on choir mics or anything else involving music mixing! And Dan Dugan auto-mixer is an option to use in place of a half or full page of eq's on both CL and QL series consoles (as of ver3+ software update; it wasn't on CL when it first came out, but was added to CL shortly after QL was introduced)- so don't think that's a "defining feature" of a QL console- QL can do so much more, about anything a CL can do (but an iPad makes it much quicker/easier because there's less knobs/controls on the control surface)- Dugan Automixer is just one option for either of the CL or QL consoles! Now back to affordable console for music mixing:
  9. Dr who- don't forget Yamaha CL's little brother the QL. What I like about CL and QL (and TF, although I haven't used that line personally- I use cls and/or ql's almost every day!) Is that with dante you can plug Ethernet directly into your computer and get up to 64ch digitally in or out without any hardware, just a very inexpensive driver software! Allen & Heath use dante too, and I believe you can get a dante adaptor for behringer x32 but not sure.
  10. I would say the wireless remote stuff is more helpful than not... I totally agree that the best recordings can be made with little to no extra gear (eq, dynamics, etc) BUT I come from a live sound point of view and I will say: It is absolutely imperative that you LEARN ABOUT ALL THE DETAILS OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF GEAR (and much of that will be covered in his schooling if he doesn't pick it up already on his own) but if you plan on using the system out and about as a PA, especially eventually for more than just his own music (other bands/musicians playing over his system) then you will want to be able to walk away from a non-ideal mix position and adjust the sound as you move, and having access to (and understanding how and when to use) good eq and compression/gating/etc is imperative if you want to shine as an engineer!!!! Plus today we are in a digital world... Many of these features come standard in run-of-the-mill gear, and learning to master them is the part that takes brains! If you deal in any type of pro live productions in the future, you will likely have all the bells and whistles (like ipad control and comps/gates available on every channel) available, so be careful / consider avoiding a purchase now that will be out of date by next year (after a year of schooling and seeing what lelse is around!) just my 2 cents -Ashayinfla
  11. Is that what the different part no's are- silk vs titanium? Do both diaphragm's use the same driver assembly? I did see one ad in eBay that stated something along the lines of "replacement diaphragm for Klipsch xxxxx" would that mean it's aftermarket not oem? Are they known to be of acceptable quality compared to the real deal (if they are in fact not the real deal)? Since I am trying to match this up with my ksb1.1's, would the silk make for a better match? (I seem to remember the ksb1.1's being a silk diaphragm, I may be wrong) I noticed what sounded like a peak in the upper mid-range when listening (with dead Hf), not sure how it will sound fully functional if that peak disappears or not... I remember reading something about that, not totally sure If it related to this model, but I seem to remember a LCR mod that might fix it up? Is that worth looking into? Finally, I seem to remember the ver2 of the box changed the feet- I need a new foot, or should I get something else to update both the boxes? Thanks history kid, you have already provided me with a wealth of info on this matter! It's all greatly appreciated!
  12. So I just bought a pair of RF-3's. The seller wanted $220 but I talked him down to 150 because both Hf horn drivers appear to be dead! (Of course I checked and made sure the jumpers were in the back plates!) I removed one after I got home and verified that there is in fact no continuity between the two posts on the diaphragm. So I need to replace 2 Hf drivers or change their diaphragms. The original p/n is K-105-K, but I read on another post that this has been changed to k124? If I can find new diaphragms, are they interchangeable between the old and new part numbers? Is there any other benefit to the new p/n vs old? If I change to the new p/n then will I need to modify the X-over at all? I'm not afraid of any of the repairs/mods that will be needed, just need to know what direction to go! Also, do these have ferro-fluid in them? If so I "may" not want to mess with diaphragm swaps. Any recommendations either way? Also, does anybody have a good lead on where is the best place to get parts? I am open to upgrades. I Also need to replace one foot, as it is broken. Any leads on that? Thanks Ashayinfla
  13. So I finally got to go check out & purchase the rf3's. I ended up talking the seller down to $150 because both tweeter horns were dead Of course I checked the jumpers on the rear (I know that's everybody's first question!) I now need to repair/replace the drivers. I will go post in the mods/repairs section about getting these back in running order.
  14. As for a sub amp, the best sounding amp you can find would be the older "analog" crown macro-tech amps, but they are power hogs and very heavy! They were available up to 1200wpc @ 8 ohms (and easily 2 ohm stable @ ~2500wrms per ch!) If the macro tech model you have is big enough to feed your subs, I recommend doing that and find something else for your mids. Many other options are available, used will give you better quality gear at low prices (even if needing repair- learn how to repair gear or make friends with someone at a repair shop!). New gives you mediocre grade quality unless you shell out $$ for the good stuff! The older gear is also usually more repairable, new gear is usually throw away - even the higher grade gear usually gets circuit board replacement rather than component repair due to everything being built using smd (micro) components (circuit boards are all built using robots, component replacement is nearly if not completely impossible in most cases!).
  15. The list of gear you have right now isnt half bad for a high schooler! If he really just wants to play DJ then just about any mixer will do a fair job, but if he wants to really get into live mixing and/or recording/studio mixing, I would highly recommend getting into the digital mixer realm (Behringer x32 is about the best you can do for minimum dollar and is used regularly by small to mid sized professional productions!) I prefer the Yamaha CL/QL lines and use them almost daily but they are a little more $, try looking used. Otherwise, I would recommend looking into the used market for higher end analog mixers (which now sell for pennies on the dollar, now that digital gear is accepted and used on 97% of pro-level shows!) Look for soundcraft, Allen Heath, Yamaha, try to learn about which models were considered pro-level because all of these manufacturers made inexpensive garbage for the "store-market" that did not compare to their better lines (which now sell used for store-level prices!). The problem with analog is that the mixer is only one step, you still need equalizers, dynamics controls (gate/expander/compressor) and effects (Reverb, delay, many others). Digital desks offer good if not great (usually) eq (way better than low to mid grade analog desks) and dynamics on every input channel and sometimes output busses also, as well as good internal effects and usually remote control (to walk the room, or stage if mixing monitors), all in one small box- analog gear needs racks of add-ons to match what you get with digital. Also, look into Mackie digital iPad-controlled mixers (I forget the models but they have a smaller one that the iPad sits in, and another unit with more features/channels that is a rack mountable box and uses the iPad as a control surface- I believe the rack mountable model also allows multi-track recording/playback). Especially if you find them used, this can offer you great bang for the buck and will see use in some respect or another into the future (mid grade analog gear will suffice for now but quickly go out of style as he gets deeper into the business!) I recommend avoiding other Mackie products, they have allot of sex appeal in the low level of the industry, and in video production (which usually haven't the first clue about audio other than "I can hear it"!), but is not very accepted in "pro" audio industry (except as a keyboard mixer as part of a large keys rig, they are used all the time for that!)
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