Falcar
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Posts posted by Falcar
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On 8/30/2019 at 6:23 AM, wstrickland1 said:
I'm running a pair with a single Palladium sub. Preamp is a McIntosh C2500 and the amp is a B&K Reference 200.2. Sources are a Oppo Sonica Streamer/DAC, VPI Scoutmaster w/ Benz Ruby and a Denon DVD2900 for SACD. I was going to "upgrade" the amp but for heaven's sake I have found the absolute finest combination that's ever been in my home and I'm not touching a thing. I've had some pretty nice gear over the years but this is it. We're now happily married...
I've heard good things about McIntosh.
Thanks for the response.
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Nah, I think bi-wiring doesn't make anything sound better and just complicates things for no reason. IMO, it's totally pointless.
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15 hours ago, tonygeno said:
I'm using the CW IIIs along with a Heresy III (center channel) in a home theater. I am finding the timbre match excellent and the front soundstage seamless. I'm wondering if the match between the Heresy III and the Cornwall IV will be as good. And if not, is one relegated to going to three CW IVs if one wants a seamless front stage?
That's interesting because I also am running two Cornwall IIIs, one Heresy III in my home theater in my living room. And I'm also running two Paradigm X15 subs with an Anthem AVM 60 pre-amp and Monolith 5 amp. I run them in "all channels" mode right now, but I haven't set up my Anthem ARC room correction yet. I still absolutely love the way everything sounds!!
The funny thing is that it seems like music sounds even better when I have all channels on compared to just 2-channel stereo. Maybe it's just because I am used to listening to music like that now, but it still sounds amazing!!
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3 minutes ago, billybob said:
Klipsch tends to exceed expectations, contrary to what bias presents... Happy to hear you are going to have Pro gear in your night room. Thanks for your opinions and welcome to the forum...
La Scala was once considered a pro speaker. That’s fine. Doesn’t matter cause it’s considered a audiophile home audio speaker now. But I certainly won’t be using a pro Class D amp. No Crown Audio stuff for me.
I don’t know what’s the deal with the pro audio agenda on this forum, but whatever, everyone has an opinion, and you are not changing mine. I’m as hard-headed as they come.
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28 minutes ago, dtel said:
Well whatever you think, contrarian, no just going by facts I have noticed.
But to be 100% honest I could care less if you believe anything I say, it makes no difference to me, I was just trying to be nice as most people here are and explain my experiences.
But you can think what you want because I know from your answers here and in other threads you are just trolling or extremely hard headed and uninformed. Either way it's very obvious.
I am being very nice, I left out all the words I wanted to use here.
I am moderator here but in no way do I have to believe or go along with any
from Klipsch, so I have no reason to say anything I don't believe. Don't be a fool.
I’m not going to get into a childish argument. But I will say it’s well known that speaker manufacturers are known for making speakers smaller and lighter when they come out with new versions to save on costs of materials and shipping. I’m not saying Klipsch will do this with the Cornwall, but I wouldn’t be surprised.
The bottom line is profit and if a speaker manufacturer can save on materials and shipping and create an equal sounding speaker, they will often do that. For example, the original Cornwall had real wood cabinets whereas the Cornwall III has MDF cabinets. So I wouldn’t be surprised if the new Cornwall IV is smaller and/or lighter than the Cornwall III. I’m not so quick to believe newer models are better.
And from the website ad I saw, it looks like the Cornwall IV will be the same price in stores as the current Cornwall III. But we won’t know for certain until it’s released.
For the record, I love Klipsch speakers and none of this is a knock on Klipsch. I’m just stating reality.
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10 minutes ago, dtel said:
I have not heard them yet but I would bet it will be easy to hear the difference, not that there's anything wrong with the 3, I love mine and will never get rid of them.
I say this from comparing the Forte 2 to the Forte 3, to me it's a big difference anyone could hear immediately.
So much of a difference since our HT has Forte 3 mains but a forte 2 for a center after switching out the center with one of the mains to see if I could hear the difference it was clear I need to eventually get another 3 for a center. Also playing them side by side it's not close.
It will most likely have the same signature sound as a Cornwall compared to other models but I am willing to bet blind test or not it will be easy to hear quite a substantial difference. Not a small change, Roy is not a marketing
kind of guy at all to say the least.
Okay, whatever you say. You are obviously just trying to be a contrarian for the sake of it. And of course I’m sure some audiophiles will pretend to hear a difference even if there isn’t a noticeable one.
But in blind tests, good luck. And even if there is a noticeable difference (very unlikely), who’s to say whether it will be better or worse? I’ve often heard of people preferring older Heritage models more than modern ones. It’s all subjective.
It’s not like we are comparing a Heritage speaker to an entry level Klipsch sold at Best Buy.
The Cornwall III and IV are literally two of the same speakers with very minor differences and the sound will no doubt reflect very tiny differences (if any at all).
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What I meant was that in a blind test I bet it would be extremely difficult to tell apart a Cornwall III and a Cornwall IV. Nothing wrong with evolving the Cornwall though. Innovation and/or evolution of electronics is a good thing. However, I wouldn’t expect a noticeable difference in sound. That’s just kind of how it goes with new versions of the same model of speakers.
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On 8/28/2019 at 10:55 AM, TasDom said:
New features include:
- All new K-702 midrange compression mated to a modified proprietary Tractrix® horn with patented Klipsch Mumps technology for even mid frequencies and consistent sound throughout the listening area.
- A new high-fidelity, steep slope network, for truer to life sound reproduction with best in class efficiency and power handling.
- New ports with Tractrix flares that deliver the most efficient, fastest air transfer in their class. The result is reduced port noise and clean, more powerful, punchy bass.
- A newly designed wide dispersion high frequency phase plug to ensure the last octave matches the coverage pattern of the midrange and high frequency horns.
- Premium aluminum input panels accommodate large, high-quality speaker cables, while strong binding posts allow for bi-wiring or bi-amping.
- An updated passive network features premium grade AudioQuest® internal wiring.
The Klipsch Cornwall IV is available in three finishes — satin black ash, American walnut and natural cherry real-wood veneer to complement modern furnishings. As with the entire Klipsch Heritage series, the Cornwall IV speakers are designed and handcrafted in the USA. Each speaker is grain-matched using wood veneer panels from the same timber, resulting in a speaker pair that is virtually indistinguishable from the other.
Klipsch will debut the new speakers for the first time at Rocky Mountain Audio Fest in Suite # 7154, September 5-8, 2019 in Denver, CO.
The Klipsch Cornwall IV (US MSRP is $2,999 each) is available through Certified Heritage Dealers. For more information on the company and its products, please visit Klipsch.com.
I bet the Cornwall IV will sound no different than the Cornwall III, even though the Cornwall IV supposedly will cost more.
If I was in the market for Cornwalls, I would try to get Cornwall IIIs while they are still available. That is, unless the Cornwall IVs end up actually costing the same as the current Cornwall IIIs (because you can never believe prices on unreleased speakers until they actually hit the market), then either Cornwall IIIs or Cornwall IVs are fine.
Luckily, I already have my Cornwall IIIs
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1 minute ago, Marvel said:
I'm glad to see you didn't stay away. Since you have obviously spent some good money for your current speakers, what kind of budget are you looking at for electronics?
Mostly music, or will this expand into a theater system?
Bruce
I haven’t purchased La Scala IIs yet. I’m just trying to get a general idea of a good pre-amp and amp if I decide to purchase the La Scalas in the future.
It will probably be for 2-channel music only, but with two subwoofers as well.
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Please recommend a good solid state pre-amp and amp for two La Scala IIs. Something that allows two subwoofers. No pro audio recommendations please.
Thank you.
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4 minutes ago, Coytee said:
He's disingenuous. (or is harboring a hidden attitude/agenda) Time to let him move on to new topic (in my opinion)
Perhaps his spirit has been crushed by being a bose owner and he thinks everyone is out to get him?
Just speculating.
I have Cornwalls, a Heresy, and two subs. I think putting pro audio stuff into a home is silly for various reasons, hence my snarky remarks. No one is going to talk me into putting pro audio stuff into my house because it's illogical and totally unnecessary and brings up other problems too. It's simply not meant for home use.
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11 minutes ago, mike stehr said:
I'm sure this speaker is inferior too because it's an audiophile home speaker and not a pro speaker, and probably doesn't require 1200 watts to power it.
That's how it works around here, right guys??
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3 minutes ago, Md5150 said:
The mid range horn and drivers on the KI-396 are far superior to the Cornwalls. The weight difference is because the Cornwall cabinet is bigger. You want to pay 3x as much for a pretty wrapper then that's your choice but you're trading in sound quality for a better finish.
I find it funny you think pro speakers have higher distortion than speakers made specifically for the home. Cornwalls will distort and sound like they are struggling way before speakers like KP600'S, Jubilee's, and other pro speakers. The KP600's that someone linked to you to consider buying are the best speakers for rap music I've ever heard and destroy Cornwalls so badly they shouldn't even be compaired.
So you are saying they make the Cornwalls bigger for no reason other than looks? That makes no sense at all considering the Cornwalls are way more expensive to ship too because of larger size and weight.
The Cornwall is a 3-way speaker too which should have better separation than the KI-396 (which is a 2-way speaker) and the Cornwall goes significantly lower than the KI-396 too. But you are ignoring the virtues of the Cornwall and saying the KI-396 is better no matter what. Seems quite bias to me.
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To all the people saying the Klipsch pro speakers are better, how about explaining this to me:
Why is a Cornwall III significantly bigger and heavier than a KI-396 if the KI-396 sounds better? Is Klipsch making the Cornwall bigger and heavier just for fun while purposely neutering it? To me that makes no sense at all. Some people claim the Forte III sounds better than the Cornwall but when I demoed them both, the Cornwall sounded a lot fuller due to its larger size, so why wouldn't it be the same when comparing a Cornwall to a KI-396?
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1 minute ago, dwilawyer said:
Just to clarify, yes they are ugly (at.least most spouses think so), but when you have the whole system, like Jubilee 2.way, and an 1802 sub, you are going to have lower distortion, fulky engineered system using controled directivity that will be superior to Heritage line speakers because they are designed for theaters and the coverage patterns have to be precise, they have to play extremely loud with low distortion (thw reference level is 85db 2/3 to rear of the theater, and they have to play all day, every day (including Christmas). So what you end up with in the home is a speaker that is more efficient/sensitive, and per PWK's axiom, distortion is proportionately inverse to efficiency (pro speakers, higher sensitivity, lower distortion, with controled directivity).
You wll experience a much wider sweetspot cleaner clearer sound. It also will reveal poorly recorded tracks. There are 100s of posts here where people bought LS, or Jubilees and remarked how bad a song they had hear hundreds of times sounded terrible on their new system. They are very revealing and can be very unforgiving.
Ttavis
Yeah I don’t buy it. Pro speakers are meant for a different purpose, not for critical listening. Pro speakers are built to be super loud to fill up theaters and auditoriums. Corners have to be cut in sound quality to provide that loudness in a portable package.
My system is already so loud that anything over -40 dB is too loud and -25 dB is ridiculously blasting it.
Take a look at a TIDAL LA ASSOLUTA. Sure it’s way more expensive than a Klipschorn but the LA ASSOLUTA is still considered a super high-end audiophile speaker because of sound quality, not because it’s the loudest thing possible.
Loudness is not everything. A train horn is plenty loud too, but that doesn’t mean it sounds good.
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46 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:
How it works is like every where else in life, you ask for an opinion and everyone will have at least 2 to give you. One of which is in an effort to reassure thenselves they bought the right speakers, car, motorcycle, turntable, cable, etc.
I'm trying to remember who is a hip-hop/tap fan on here that has owned both. My recollection is they tended to prefer direct radiators for bass. One forum member is a huge funk fan, he has owned everything pro and heritage Klipsch, and he has always come back to expressing a preference for direct radiator bass. He has indicated he thinks it is because that's what he grew up on and so just formed a preference to that kind of bass.
Paul Klipsch used to tell people he was.going to recalibrate his ears by going to a live symphony. To him it was always a matter of getting as close and faithful to the original performance. I don't know how that is going to equate with hip-hop.
The other issue is Klipsch just did a major update to the La Scala (AL-5) and so most/many will have never heard those. I have, with properly tuned subs and tube amps and they sounded significantly better than my 90s era LS, but it was jazz and rock obviously selected for low end, and to show off new high end capabilities of the Tractrix tweeter.
I ran my LS with tubes and SS (McIntosh) and they sounded great with the right SS amp.
I sold my LS when I had the house for Khorns, kept my Cornwalls. I would never sell my CW's. Some days I'm just in the mood for Cornwalls.
A Klipsch dealer recently mentioned that he purchased the last pair of Cornwall III's off the line to donate to the Klipsh Museum, so my unofficial speculation is you will see a new version of the CW soon. If that's the case, everyone is going to be in the same boat, no idea until they actually hear them.
The engineer for these new versions has been Chief Bonehead, but he is a drummer and tends to like power metal stuff.
@Marvel and some of the other technical folks could tell you, putting aside type of music and direct radiator bass, which speaker, on average, will work beat with a particular type of amp and topology. As I recall, one of those speakers has been discussed as being a better match for SS vs. the other. But that involves understanding phase, impatience curves, etc which I know nothing about.
@Youthman is a youth minister so he may have listened to some rap/hh and he is constantly rating subs with his LS home theater systen along with Reference products. He may have some good insight for you. I taghed him so he may see this.
Where are you located, there may be a certified Heritage dealer close to you where you can listen for yourself.
Travis
Thank you. This is probably the most sensible reply in this entire thread instead of trying to convince me to put some ridiculous looking ugly monstrosities in my living room with questionable distortion and dispersion.
To be fair, there where some other good non-pro suggestions as well. I appreciate those as well.
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Nearly every article online comparing pro audio stuff to audiophile (home audio) stuff says that pro audio stuff has better durability and portability at the expense of sound quality compared to audiophile stuff.
So everyone is the world is wrong and only a handful of people here know the true secrets of the universe?
Forgive me for finding that VERY hard to believe.
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It seems to me that the basic consensus of this forum is that Klipsch Heritage speakers are overpriced garbage and Klipsch pro audio speakers are amazing.
Wow, I didn’t except any of this at all. It’s like I stepped into the twilight zone 😮
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1 minute ago, jimjimbo said:
Having owned all of these, I will tell you that Cornwalls don't even come close to La Scalas or Khorns. Simply different animals in configuration. Again, I would highly suggest looking for used La Scalas/Khorns. New units are quite pricey. Feel free to PM me with any further questions.
I've heard the opposite too, that La Scalas sound thin compared to Cornwalls. But I've always heard Klipschorns sound the best. This is all very interesting.I only buy new when it comes to audio equipment.
Thanks for the suggestions.
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37 minutes ago, Coytee said:
This is of course, my opinion only however, I'd presume others would agree with me.
In the world of Klipsch, the sound gets better as you go bigger. Yes, it will also go more loud, but aside from that, the sound will be "bigger" even at the same level you might listen to. Also, you are paying for performance instead of looks. Your Cornwalls are plenty powerful enough....fine. Next to a Jubilee, they will sound like cheap toy speakers..... and.....the Jubilee, next to the MWM setup....will sound like a cheap toy speaker. So it's all relative to some degree.
(I feel fine saying this as I own LaScalas, Jubilee and have had the MWM's.... I've never had the Cornwalls but being the smallest of the bunch, feel the logic would still hold true)
So, if you like BIG and effortless sound, not necessarily LOUD sound, then the larger you go, the better....hence the comments.
It's been a slow process getting people here interested in the pro stuff. There were a few nut-cases early on but now there is an increasing number of them (nut-cases that is), some of which have commented already.
Just like I am not interested in Class D amps, I am not interested in pro audio speakers. I tend to be old school in my thought processes, and if the notion has always been that pro audio is too distorted-sounding for home use, then I am going to stick with that train of thought. People can claim whatever they want online, but there are certain understandings in the audio industry, and one of them is: It is not advised to use pro audio gear at home (other than XLR cables obviously).Anyways, I appreciate the suggestions of Klipschorns and La Scalas. I might demo both at a store someday and see how they compare to my Cornwalls. I have always heard that Cornwalls are quite comparable to La Scalas, but I've also heard Klipschhorns are the ultimate for home use (if you can afford them).
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16 minutes ago, finallygotmyheresies said:
I don't have a lot of experience using different amps with my LaScala's but I have really enjoyed the Class D powered receivers and integrated amps I have used on them. Panasonic SA-XR700, Pioneer SC-81, NAD 390DD. Everything has been very quiet for me. I do use RGPC power conditioners which may or may not help.....they don't seem to hurt.
I have the feeling amp quietness is a very subjective thing. For example, my Monoprice Monolith 5 (made by ATI) Class A/B amp is literally 5 monoblocks put in a case and sold as one big amp. It weighs about 80 pounds. It has a completely silent background, no noise of any kind whatsoever. But that's the reason people (like myself) are willing to deal with such a big amp that takes up more room and needs a reinforced shelf to support it. It's THD level is way lower than a Crown 1502 Class D amp for example. I'm sure the Crown 1502 is a relatively quiet amp, but I highly doubt it holds a candle to my Monolith 5. Also, my Monolith 5 has a thump-free start and that's something a Class D amp is very unlikely to have.-
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Pro audio speakers by design must handle massive amounts of power, amp clipping, feedback and other chaos typical home audio speakers are not exposed to normally. They are designed to handle sound abuse from microphones as well. However, compared to home audio speakers, pro audio speakers are known for having a lot more distortion, issues with dispersion, and issues with clarity. Just like Class D amps (considered pro audio) are known for having a lot more distortion than Class A/B amps (considered home audio). Therefore, I am wary of purchasing pro audio speakers and equipment for home use.
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2 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said:
I wouldn't say I'm defensive. You asked why pro being recommended when you clearly asked for something else. I said, you know what you want and disregard my post. I would still own heritage if members here hadn't steered me in the right direction toward pro. Roy Delgado states that he designs pro and heritage equally in terms of sonics and sound quality (large debate on that in another thread)
Can you please post the link here to that thread?Thank you.
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2 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said:
Apparently you didn't read my post. No matter, buy the LA scalas and be happy.
Why so defensive?
BTW, I don't buy used things. It's just a belief of mine.
So my question stands: Why would Heritage series even exist then? Is Klipsch Pro Audio like 5 times the cost?
from Klipsch, so I have no reason to say anything I don't believe. Don't be a fool.
Why are horns not more popular in the speaker industry?
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
I love the sound of Klipsch horns, but it sure seems like it a lot of audiophiles consider horns primitive and harsh. The old phonographs use horns and even the new ones do. I just feel like horns provide a crispness that cones cannot duplicate in the mids and highs. But of course, I like cones for the lower bass frequencies.
When and why did the speaker industry (other than Klipsch and maybe a few others) steer away from horns in favor of cones? Or has it always been just a few speaker manufacturers that integrated horns into their home audio speakers?
Thoughts?