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audioquest4life

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  1. For that price it’s worth experimenting again to try how class D sounds...hmmm.
  2. That’s a very profound statement....synergy of equipment, listening preferences, and acoustical space all affect the final resultant sound characteristics. It seems for sure that the Crowns do great with Klipsch. I wanted to test if Crown would be just as good with the B&Ws bass sections. It seems that the general consensus after years of experimentation any many listening hours that Klipsch and Crown are a match made in heaven. I equate that to the tests that Indian forefathers in North America did with homeopathic and natural medicines...after a few deaths, and illnesses, Eventually tested formulas were proven to work. I am still planning on getting a set of the Jubilee 2 way sometime in the future.
  3. @Randyh Well, that was quick. I purchased the Crown XTI2002, and that was based on lot of available power to drive the bass on the 800s. One thing I overlooked was that it had fans, ughhh. Anyway, the Crown XTI did a great job of increasing depth in the bass, and also I noticed a better width in stereo dispersion; however, the organic sound I had biwiring the 800s with the McIntosh MC2301s on the 4 ohm taps was gone. In other words, here’s the BLUF: it sucked. I used the Crown app to dial in the amp and adjust the bass parameters, crossover, slope, etc, to try and extract some sense of good from this setup, to no avail. Going back to the 800s and biwire on the Mc amps, and using the Velodyne SMS1 bass EQ with two sealed 15 inch subs yields much better and harmonious sound than the bi-amp setup with the Crown. I did not use the Velodyne SMS1 Bass EQ with the Crown experiment as the whole purpose was to not use subs. Not knocking the Crown as it can play loud for sure, but it’s all about system compatibility, synchronicity, and music to me at the end of the day. Oh, the fan kicked in as I played louder and louder too. The subs I have are 1500 watt subs and with the Velodyne I can dial up or down the volume independent of the preamp volume. After many years of listening hours, when listening to equipment, my mantra is it either sounds good or sucks, haha. I like to tweak and adjust things as well, but when it’s bad sounding to me, it’s bad, and is a waste of time to try and optimize the sound. I have spent many years and dollars in that attempt in my equipment, acoustical environment, and room design and have my own reference points though listening, as well as all of you. If these were attached to horns or other speakers, results would undoubtedly be different.
  4. I have some setup at my analog rig running from the AV rack in the utility room, about 70 feet of wires for just in case moments when I need to use AV source and run through my analog rig. Those type of cable pass throughs are great because they allow bundles of speaker and AV cables to be run easily without a flush mount AV plate. But, they are holes and make sure that you have sound insulation running behind that plate and the cable runs....you can still punch cables up or down if you snake the cables through whatever pocket is behind the drywall. You can also use external channel conduit but who wants to ruin the view in such a nice room? Look at these noise abatement solutions for junction boxes and AC outlets: https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Fire-Rated-Acoustical-Putty/dp/B018WQ4D7O https://www.atsacoustics.com/ats-acoustics-putty-pads.html Even though it might not seem like a big sound issue, it can lead to sound leakage. These can also eliminate cold air from entering the room through the outlets and light switches during a cold snowy or rainy day. Every little bit helps.
  5. Yeah, I know. It’s overwhelming the things you have to account for when designing or retrofitting a listening space to make it accommodating for your goals, fit in your budget, and maintain peace and harmony with family outside the room when you are jamming out to music or watching some intergalactic space movie really loud. Since it’s an old house and your doing this project under the kitchen I would suggest that you concentrate on the ceiling as bass will make the dishes and chinaware vibrate immensely and the sound will propagate through the ceiling into the kitchen and other adjoining rooms. If the joists are open and you have enough space, think about doing about 5 inches of spray foam (estimating no more than 12-1500), Roxul Safe and sound is about $54 at Lowe’s, instead of MLV on ceiling, do resilient channel, and Quietrock sheet rock sheet as it’s less of a hassle to add that mass to the ceiling than MLV and drywall together which is essentially Quietrock, two pieces of drywall with a vinyl center substrate holding the two pieces together. If you have a good quote for the MLV and regular Sheetrock, than move out on that as you stated for the other walls testing the results of MLV and your double drywall with green glue on the walls. Remember, you want to prevent sound from traveling up and sealing the ceiling with the method I described helps a lot. You don’t have to do Quietrock on the rest of the walls because the costs involved but the double drywall with green glue gives you nearly the same effect. Don’t forget to squeeze green glue along all seams, outlet boxes, anywhere there is a channel where air permeates and can cause sound to travel behind the drywall assemblies eventually going upwards. 1. Draw out on paper and put your lighting and power outlets and determine how much of each you will need. Do you need dedicated 20 amp circuits for heavy amp draw equipment such as large subs and amps. These need to be factored in when the contractor does the drywall. If contractor is one in the same fine, but make sure the contractor pulls permits, usually a general construction permit for a home. You can save money by pulling permits yourself. If you have windows then the county usually will want the window to be clear of obstructions, and if plumbing is in there, it will also have to be inspected. I pulled my own permits and saved about $500. 2. Look at ceiling noise abatement (calculate costs x labor etc) for each method Quietrock vs double drywall and MLV. In each scenario I would budget spray foam and Roxul for ceiling. Put this into your budget calculator to see how this affects your overall budget. Remember, you can splurge in some places, and save money in other areas to keep within your budget. 3. Experiment with studding wall (either metal or wood, metal is less thick, but costs more) and double drywall with green glue, and MLV (make an assembly first and test noise transmission or transfer (a-little radio played up against assembly will do the trick). But this test is for noise and not bass per se. Dampening pads might be a good thing, but what are the labor costs to accommodate them when framing besides the costs of the dampers? Resilient channel on the ceiling as a minimum would be very similar in nature, but it is also an extra step of screwing into the joists and the labor and costs for the channel itself. 4. HVAC noise and duct work can be problematic.... look at https://www.acousticalsurfaces.com/hvac/ for duct wrapping ideas. 5. Don’t forget to ascertain your vapor barrier requirements. 6. At the end of the day, you can spend thousands and thousands to make a perfect room, but in reality, you need to address what’s most important to you within your means and time constraints so that your reasonably happy with the end result without breaking the bank. And don’t forget, no matter what you do, it’s going to be better than what you have now. It’s good that you are asking these questions now. Also, if your into it, and if your adding crown molding in the ceiling during the build, you can add programmable led lighting in the molding to give light affect to your newly makeover room. It’s easier to do now than afterwards. Good luck.
  6. It depends on budget and time conditions to complete your project. The simple answer is that more mass equates to more damping. If you did not add the double 5/8 Gypsum with green glue between the sheets on the concrete wall, then you could potentially face anomalous behavior with frequencies that resonant, typically bass at louder levels. For space saving, perhaps try steel studs and 1/2 In sheet of Quietrock Sheetrock. The biggest issue in my opinion is if you have a vapor barrier or not. Is this a new home build where the builder left a vapor barrier on the walls? If so, then use that barrier to save costs and stud the wall as you normally would but use the metal studs since it’s only one wall...it might give you at the most 1/2 back, and that depends on the thickness of the vapor barrier. If you need to add a vapor barrier, then you have many options from Lowe’s or Home Depot and they are much thinner than what the home builder left on the wall. The concrete floor should not resonate at all from playing music or watching movies unless you have multiple megawatt subs. I could only think that one would worry about vibrations if the slab is thin or an older build. Then, yes, adding a noise absorption vinyl pad or something on the floor will help, but that depends on what material you use for the floor. I used bamboo and the glue I used was a three in one, adhesive, vapor barrier, and noise absorbing....which means very expensive. You need to think about what’s important you and the family, and your budget, because these will drive your decisions. My first stated was spray foam insulation under the joists and the doing the dog walk test above, could hardly hear the dog nails after that, haha. Then added a whole bunch more, and costs added up, but we have a listening and home theater room that is quiet outside and nice sounding inside. Good luck.
  7. That’s why I won’t discount them yet for my Jubilee experiment. Someone has do it. I used to own Octave Audio MRE130 amps with Super Black Box while I was stationed in Germany, but sold them and bought the McIntosh amps when I returned to US and turned 50, my birthday present to myself. I also had a pair of Bryston 4BSSTs and used one set on the B&Ws and the other on some Polk Audio SDA series speakers. Man, sold that stuff too before coming back to states. I still have my Denon DP62L turntable that I bought in the PX in 1986 and it’s serving duty in the living room.
  8. @ClaudeJ1 Thank you for the analogy with regards to film and digital photography. I can relate for sure as we moved into digital photography from film in the the late 90s at my organization. I am prepared to share my results no matter how bad or good they turn out😬, afterall, someone has to do it. My contingency, and yes, I have been paying attention, is to look at some David Berning design amps, or something similar from Linear Tube Audio, their Zotl40 amplifier which I heard driving Spatial Audio M3s and kicking their behind for sure. I know OB design vs horn, but based on my listening session, they sound pretty decent. in the mean time, I have to plug in my newly arrived Crown amp to test biamping my B&W N800s. This bi-amping experiment is to help me prepare for the purchase and arrival of the Jubilees after I sell off the 800s. More to follow. I just want to let you all know I have been all over the map and it’s driving my wife crazy. Avantgarde Duos, Legacy Aeris, Spatial Audio, Classic Loudspeakers, and this past week, the Volta or something like that, looks like a Lascala clone,,,but no, things I keep reading about the Jubilees, and sheer peer pressure from you guys, are making me disavow my wannabe audiophile roots and just enjoy the music, that’s what it is all about. That is so cool that you met Mr. Marantz himself.
  9. Red pill or blue pill...I will take both! I will let my ears be the determining factor as to what components work together in my room and for my listening preferences. I thought the current Jubilee bass bins are rated at 800 watts and the MF/HF 400 watts according to the published specs on Klipsch. Room is built to my specification based on technical training and project management in sound mitigation for facilities I gathered working for the government. My contractor thought I was crazy with these specs: spray foam under joists, Roxul Safe and sound batting in ceiling and all walls, Quietrock 530 Radio Frequency Sheetrock, resilient channel, Green glue, double back wall with 2inch gap between walls, all surround walls are concrete as well as concrete slab with custom bamboo floors. It’s a bunker, 😆 My room may not be an auditorium but it’s nice sized at 33 x 20. At the end of the day, I want to explore the Jubilees after my listening demo at a fellow owners home. My mantra is garbage in garbage out and to that end will embrace the new journey.
  10. Red pill or blue pill...I will take both! I will let my ears be the determining factor as to what components work together in my room and for my listening preferences. I thought the current Jubilee bass bins are rated at 800 watts and the MF/HF 400 watts according to the published specs on Klipsch. Room is built to my specification based on technical training and project management in sound mitigation for facilities I gathered working for the government. My contractor thought I was crazy with these specs: spray foam under joists, Roxul Safe and sound batting in ceiling and all walls, Quietrock 530 Radio Frequency Sheetrock, resilient channel, Green glue, double back wall with 2inch gap between walls, all surround walls are concrete as well as concrete slab with custom bamboo floors. It’s a bunker, 😆 My room may not be an auditorium but it’s nice sized at 33 x 20. At the end of the day, I want to explore the Jubilees after my listening demo at a fellow owners home. My mantra is garbage in garbage out and to that end will embrace the new journey.
  11. Yeah, I think it would be overkill too. Perhaps, I should put the Big Macs on the bass bins and get some flea watt amp for the top end. I really want to buy into the Jubilee mind set, but I am not relinquishing my beautiful MC2301 300 watts that are my dream amps. I wonder how they would do in the bass....hmmm, only one way to find out.
  12. Howdy all, Trying to ascertain how big or small of a stereo amp I want to get for the bass bins of the Jubilees. What amps and how much power are people using for their bass bins? Granted, with this community and the fact that people have differing listening environments and loudness tolerances, there is apt to be some fluctuations in the responses, but that’s okay. Are pro amps such as Crown or Peavey preferred for the bass section of the Jubilees? I have Mac daddy 300 watt McIntosh tube amps for the top horn section. I don’t feel like I need to put my previous big appetite audiophile hat towards the bass as it is only low frequency region, not to sound disparaging to the bass section of course. But, I don’t mind spending money at all for quality stereo amp or mono amps and preferably no fans to deal with either if going pro route. Crown has so many series that I don’t know what I don’t know. I think Emotiva amps or used Brystons might be a way to go. What say you Jubilee community? Thanks.
  13. Chris, Thank you for the detailed response. Lots of good information within these forums about the Jubilees. I appreciate it. Nick
  14. Hey Tom, Thank you. Your car analogy is perfect and really brings it home to me as I am a car guy. I used to race at Hockenheim, Germany with a highly “modded” Z06 Corvette. Yes, stock was not bad, but adding racing brakes, suspension, and all of those coolers sure helped performance until I was able to easily out handle GT3s. “If what you are asking is (my words): can any car be made to handle better by installing some expensive shocks and tires? Yes .... but it does not mean the stock car was somehow medicore” Your response not only enlightened me, but perhaps a few others who may be interested in Jubilees but not willing to deep dive so to speak. In that context, I am eager and look forward to trying these Jubilees as part of a new chapter in my newly acquired listening tastes. If that means I may mod in the future, so be it. It’s all for fun, joy, and passion for the hobby. Life is too short and you only live once. Thank you, I greatly appreciate you summarizing so bluntly, which was eye opening for all, not just me.
  15. @Chris, Thank you for this information regarding the Jubilees. As an avid music listener, I find that your technical insight and dedication to the Jubilee speaker system must mean that the Jubilee has imparted something special in sound quality and/or other attributes in which you, and a few others have cherished. To me, that is a sign of a speakers ability through design to be able to impart such qualities resulting in many spoken superlatives about the Jubilee. I have been very satisfied and love the sound of my system with the exception of the dynamic scale which eats up my McIntosh MC2301 300 watt tube amps on the B&W 800s. The Jubilee would serve to alleviate that issue. I do have a few questions as I have never owned any horns except my JBLs in the barracks back in the 80s. 1. What are the low level micro dynamics of the Jubilees? In other words, do the Jubilees come alive with pristine cymbals and trumpet instruments at low volume as well as higher volume? As you know, a normal speaker, especially the 800s, require a certain volume level to push these musical traits to the forefront in order to be heard easily. I am really interested in how low level shimmer and vocals sound without having to crank it up. Which leads to my second question. 2. The original Jubilee is supposed to be a 2 way configuration. Is their any sonic degradation (noise, distortion, etc.) by going to a three way vice 2 way due to the added complexity of a larger crossover network? 3. A few Jubilee owners have opted to change to the TAD 4001 or 4002 MF. Is the Jubilee not capable in playing the attributes listed in question 1 above in a quality manner? I know we like to mod stuff in this hobby, but I never had to mod my normal dynamic speakers as they were good as is. I would like to think we could purchase the Jubilees as is and play immediately; granted that the requisite hardware is available to support playing. Not to say that I am not willing to spend extra to eek out that last bit of increased performance. Which leads to question 4, cost of ownership to get to the level of quality that is “required” to sound good. Note that I am emphasizing the required because of the add on of the other TAF or Fatal drivers to increase musical capabilities certainly adds to the cost and time to enjoy the Jubilees. 4. After having read every thread on Jubilees within this last week, it is apparent to me that they are not quite a plug and play solution unless you have the crossover, DSP preferably, and a another set of amps to bi-amp to the bass beforehand. Those items could invariably add considerable costs if one were to seek out new top of the line components, or not so much, if lesser brand names, and buying used. The point I am making here is the costs of ownership could very well add up to the costs of a new set of Klipschorns, depending on which components you purchase in order to be able to play at the bare minimum. Throw in the TAD drivers, and the costs could easily surpasses the Klipschorns. The bottom line, a few have ventured down this path to achieve sonic bliss increasing their musical pleasure. This is not a bad thing, but, one must really understand that their are other costs, in time and money. I am willing to go down that path thanks to the technical information and modeling you posted. I guess it’s a mind set to own Klispch and also a mind set to be able to tweak beyond the manufacturer specs to achieve even higher levels of musical bliss. I did end up going to a fellow Klipschorn forum members house and listened to his Jubilees with the TAD drivers, and wow, what an exhilarating experience. My listening benchmark is the Jubilee with TAD but not stock. Any knowledge you could share about stock Jubilee sound would be great. Thank you.
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