Rolox
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Posts posted by Rolox
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12 hours ago, Deang said:
A 3636 in that early design of the Universal gains you nothing except some additional settings that you don’t need.
With much respect, Dean, how can you know if I don't need more / different attenuation settings without knowing what drivers I use?
I'm not using Klipsch speakers. As a matter of fact, with my current tweeter / midrange I always wish there was an intermediate position between -3,8dB and -5,5dB. Between mids and bass I'm using an active crossover so it really is a matter of finely balancing the midrange on the tweeter.
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15 hours ago, mboxler said:
Once you get away from labeling the taps "db", it becomes clearer.
Each tap connects to a specific winding of the autoformer. The ratio of the input connection to the output connection dictates the voltage change. On a T2A, the ratio of taps 4 - 0 to 5 - 0 is .68, so the output voltage is 68% of the input voltage, or -3.35db.
There is no reason why one can't connect the input to 5 - 1 (75% of the windings) and the output to 4 - 1 (43% of the windings). .43 / .75 = .573, so the output voltage is 57.3% of the input voltage, or -4.84db.
Since the T2A exposes only four of the internal windings, the number of input to output ratios is limited. The other autoformers allow access to more windings, and therefore allow for more input to output ratios.
Yes you can swap any autoformer with any other autoformer on your crossover, as long as you realize that each will have unique attenuation possibilities.
Mike
It is still unclear in my head how ALK manages to have so many different outputs on a 3619 when the input connections are fixed. Does that mean with a 3636 I could actually get MORE attenuation possibilities than the announced 1dB steps from -1dB to -12dB (sorry I'm still using dBs because I just don't know how to calculate the ratios), possibly in-between steps as well? Sorry if I ask dumb questions, I've been using autoformers in my crossovers seemingly forever, I mean for as long as I've been playing with big Klipsch and now with similarly "horny" speakers - but I've never really wondered how those actually work, not in details at least.
Thanks! 🙂
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On 1/17/2023 at 4:54 PM, mboxler said:
Just to clarify, if your active crossover contains a low pass to the woofer AND a high pass to the crossover, you should connect your high pass amplifier to the crossover RIGHT AFTER the crossover's 48uf(?) capacitor.
Mike
Yes I wrote that wrong, I bypass the whole high-pass section of the midrange. I connect the midrange leaving only its low-pass components and the autoformer.
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Hi everyone,
I was just wondering: how come my ALK Universal crossovers, with 3619 autoformer, has many different attenuation taps when it's supposed to have only -3, -6, -9 and -12dB? There must be something I don't understand..
Also, and that's the main question, could I put a Crites 3636 in place of the 3619 without having to change the circuit (I know I would have to add some wires for the additional entry taps, if I want the full flexibility, but I don't wanna change the rest of the circuit). Doable?
Thanks a lot!
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On 1/14/2023 at 5:24 PM, AndyGrandy said:
I realize that this is an old thread but I'm looking to do the same thing and was wondering if NCBlueTJ had accomplished what he was aspiring to do here? Basically rebuilding the passive xover for the mid/high, while actively crossing between them and the bass bin. Anyone have a schematic for such a passive xover?
I'm doing it, with a air of ALK original "Universal" networks. I just bypassed the coil in line with the woofer and connected the crossover inputs straight after it to the rest of the network that deals with the mids/high crossover. Works pretty well and the various taps on the auto former allow me to further dial in the midrange with the rest.
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On 12/3/2022 at 7:05 PM, Dale A B said:
You can always disconnect me woofer from the other speaker so they would sound the same.
Before sending out one speaker maybe confirm only one has a problem.
If I had 2 bad woofers I would look for 2 other drivers to match and put one in each unit.
But that is just my style.
Cheap.
Why on earth would you do that? If you disconnect one woofer, you screw with the bow tuning and with the crossover. Better part with the speakers then! Or, better, have them fixed.
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I would say 200w per channel is the max you'll ever need. Just to keep the bass in check. You can probably achieve great results with much smaller amps.
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7 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:
I agree with @Rolox. 8 ft. is too close in my opinion. But if you like them, that's all that matters.
I read your system description and I envy you. Must be one hell of a fantastic system! How do you like the Denafrips DAC?
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On 12/10/2022 at 8:03 PM, indocti discant said:
They are here - and they are wonderful. I will spare pics for now since the space is a disaster.
I did get them hooked up to the Denon 2400h - and they are already an upgrade! However, this Denon does not do it justice at all.
Oh, and listening position is not 9 feet. It's 8.
I'm measuring 86db at level 49/51.
This is heaven.Pardon me if I rain on your parade but 8 feet is awfully close for KHorns... you need a certain distance for the different horns to "gel". I understand the legitimate will to own the Bad Boys, but in the end what matters most is how you can set them up in your room. Just my opinion, of course, and I haven't been in your room to listen, just instinctive feeling and experience with having massive horns in a living room... I'm still thinking the Forte would have been more enjoyable there.
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On 10/12/2022 at 3:10 AM, indocti discant said:
Dunno what it is about Klipsch - but I've been attached to them for a long time now. Bought a pair of RP280FAs a couple of years and love them. But about a year or so ago discovered the heritage line and have been yearning to upgrade them.
Our space is an odd one - it's a studio apartment that has the place set up for home theater and listening to music (Amazon HD music streamed through Denon HEOS). I also have a record player / may get another one in the future.
Room is maybe 25 feet deep, and we sit about 10 feet away from the speakers right now.
I've been non stop thinking about which to get and after getting over wanting to buy used speakers - settled on the Forte IVs based on SteveHuff's review. I went through the whole - Yeah I can do the Klipschorns and then realizing that we don't exactly have 2 corners in which to place them, to then thinking oh the La Scalas - to realizing that they might be too big, to the Cornwalls and then even down to the Heresys.Anyhow, throughout all of this I've still been randomly checking classifieds and a pair of La Scalas have popped up. 1978 Birch - all original - seemingly owned by a woodworker with some extra layers and a guard put on them. My concern with something that old is that I'm not exactly very handy when it comes to doing any upgrades etc and have no sense if such an old speaker would need refurbishment work.
I also found a pair of Klipschorns with recently replaced woofers - that I'm also thinking about.
So that sort of brings me to one of my first set of questions - just what should I be concerned about, look at when it comes to anything vintage like that? And has the sound changed considerably to the current ones (which based on everything I've read - it has?). Is there a place I should go to to read up about all of this?
B
Otherwise, is going with the Forte IVs a better option - brand new - nothing to really worry about for a while yadda yadda?
Finally - if I am to upgrade my receiver (which I likely will) is something like a Denon 6700h or similar Marantz the appropriate choice? I do want to have height front and rear - currently I only have a 5.1.2 system.Or should I keep my existing Denon for home theater viewing and get a dedicated amp for listening to music? And if so what would be a good one that can play streaming music?
Apologies for what is probably a whole host of questions - trying to be as clear while also being concise.
Thank you and I look forward to being here
The Forte IV will be easier to position.
Forget about the big Heritage speakers if your room isn't up for it - not only Klipschorns but also LaScala as they love to have space. The modern versions sound in general more refined and smooth than the vintage ones.
In the wrong room, both LaScala and Klipschorn have the ability to sound absolutely horrendous. The Forte IV is much more forgiving.
But please don't power them with an AV receiver! a dedicated quality 2 channels amp is what you need for those.
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On 8/24/2022 at 12:05 PM, Marvel said:
Just curious... what is a 'huge' electricity bill? Might be food for another thread.
Well, we just had to pay (on top of our usual monthly payments) an add-on bill of 1250 euro. Half our vacation budget so, we couldn't travel in the end. I have a pretty shitty job (well, I've seen much worse, but I'm still in the "lower income" part of the population) and everything has become much more expensive. Food, electricity, gas... I'm not complaining (yet), we are a double-income-no-kids house, it could be worse, but still.
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I use exclusively class D amps. On the > 500Hz range I use a fully modded Trends TA10.1 amp (TA2024 chip) with a low noise, high current linear PSU. On the 60 to 500Hz range I use a 25USD (you read that right) AliExpress amp with TPA3255 chip and an external SMPS PSU. only the subs use class AB amps - that's what they came with.
I don't find the Trends amp to be aggressive, not at all in fact - and the upgraded linear PSU really raised the sound, making the treble much more natural, less "spitty".
Every system has to compromise somewhere; my compromise is to keep the system completely foolproof and having the least electricity consumption possible. It stays on 24/7, barely draws any current, stays cold, and if someone turns an amp oFF or ON there are no dangerous transients in the drivers; I don't need to use a capacitor to protect them. Other people in the house use the system; all you need to do is select your desired source and press "play". The sound is clean, wide open, precise, and transparent - every upstream change (including vibration footers, cables, and of course change of DAC or preamplifier) is heard BIG TIME. The personality of every element comes through with ease. Differences in recordings as well, obviously. The amps are also dead silent which is a huge bonus with 105dB speakers.
I've recently swapped the Trends amp for a pure class A amp, it sounded different, sure, a tiny bit warmer, but not enough to have me reconsider.
Of course they could be considered somewhat "sterile" compared to other amps but in my system, I feel it's the source and the preamp who give the most personality / signature to the sound, and I rely on them to give me the musicality I'm after. The amps are merely passing up the sound to the speakers.
My budget is rather low, I used to own plenty of vintage or second hand class AB or class A solid state, but I grew tired of the recurrent reliability issues, and I did have a big class AB amp killing my woofers once.
Now don't get me wrong, if I had unlimited budget, and if I was the only one using the system, I would probably consider class A or tubes (or both) but in the current state of affairs (and having just paid a HUGE electricity bill, a bill that would have been probably double if I was using conventional amps) those little class D marvels are a fine "compromise" and I prefer to focus on the source (my next upgrade will most likely be a new DAC) and accessories.
YMMV, as always.
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15 hours ago, pcbiz said:
Sounds right. It's similar to the live audio world. When these digital mixers hit the market, the word from the manufacturers was that they were 'better'. They actually degraded the sound, and many drummers have thrown their sticks at the sound man that tried to prove otherwise.
But that's a completely different issue. it's the eternal debate of digital vs analogue. I own an analogue active crossover because I think it just sounds better and I just don't currently need all the bells and whistles of a DSP based crossover; most people nowadays would just jump at a DSP based solution, often the cheapest ones, like miniDSP, thinking that "it's digital so it doesn't degrade the signal" which is just plain false.
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15 hours ago, ODS123 said:
I'll share a quote gleaned from another Forum. This from Alan Shaw of Harbeth. ..I'm betting PWK would say something similar
"One of the greatest mysteries and acts of insanity in the audio business was the deletion of tone controls from hifi amplifiers from about the 1980s with some utterly discreditable mumbo jumbo that 'tone controls are no part of a hifi system'. I can categorically assure you that a properly designed and executed tone control circuit does not degrade the signal quality and never has done... Tone controls were deleted from hifi amps as a marketing gimmick to attract a new 'minimalist' consumer away from amps laden with buttons and controls."
(thank you Keiron99 on Steve Hoffman forum)
Yet with a properly set-up hifi system, you don't need them. Only with some genuinely bad recordings can they help, but how many of those recordings do we actually own?
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1 hour ago, ODS123 said:
I'm sure it's beautifully made, hence a fair amount of pride-of-ownership will accrue to all who own one. But sound better?
And seriously? $5K for an integrated that doesn't even have a balance control?? ..Personally, given your budget I'd find a Mac dealer (a sister company to AR, I believe) and buy one of their integrated amps. ..They all have balance controls, tone controls, and a mono switch - common sense features that make listening to all kinds of music of varying recording quality more enjoyable.
Or an Accuphase or Luxman as they also have these sensible features.
I haven't once needed a balance control or tone controls... YMMV, I suppose!
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On 8/19/2022 at 8:30 PM, the real Duke Spinner said:
You ..
Are Right
Rather than mixing music at Absolute Sound I should hang out with you
I prolly could learn something. 🙄
good lord...
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I see one of your networks has a modern film capacitor, the other one an old oil capacitor. Ideally you'd want to have the same on both channels.
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22 hours ago, nyureyez said:
Rolox or anyone else ever compare this one to the active ones from Marchand that use dedicated RCA in/out instead of modules? The Marchand also has true XLR that doesn't require a converter to TRS which I assume converting may be not as pure a path.
Thanks
Nope, I haven't; I suspect Marchand units to be very good, no idea if they would be better than the K231 tho. The Marchand would probably be easier to tweak/upgrade as there's more space inside. Stock, I doubt a Marchand would sound better (but I cannot comment, it's just that the K231 is so good, it's hard to imagine "better").
I wouldn't stress too much about the RCA connectors; sure those things matter but what matters more is the circuit and the way the whole thing is put together. as for the TRS jacks, well you can always re-terminate your cables instead of using adapters. I only use the unbalanced RCA ins/outs.
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17 hours ago, jimjimbo said:
Sure, keep believing that. Do I have a lot of money? No. Do I want to impress people with my gear? No. Do I use it as a "status symbol"? No.
Only through buying, selling, trading, bartering, etc, etc, etc through many, many years have I been able to acquire amps and preamps that compliment my listening environment and the music I enjoy.
So please, continue to mock the Mcintosh brand, and those that appreciate it, while I will continue to listen and laugh.
I am not mocking the McIntosh brand. I'm just saying, because it costs so much money and is so easy to recognize even by people outside the hobby, it is ALSO one of the brands that gets purchased by people who just want to impress the guests. And also by those who will never ever purchase something that's not made in the USA. I never said it was everyone's case. I never said it was a lousy brand. Just like I love Rolex watches even tho they are THE status symbol watch purchased by non-watch people when they want to show off, because everyone recognizes a Rolex on your wrist from 20 feet distance, which is not the case with Patek Philippe for example. Doesn't make Rolex a bad brand.
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1 minute ago, Shakeydeal said:
Exactly. I have never berated anyone who says they can't hear a difference in cables. I only take issue with the ones who say no difference exists. If you can't hear the improvement, that's $$ in your pocket and good for you. But don't paint with a broad brush and think everyone should be like you.
We have a member here (who will certainly be along shortly) who says all modern amplifiers sound the same. And yet he chooses to own a multi thousand dollar McIntosh amp when a 500.00 receiver should sound the same. It sounds like I'm making that up, but it's true...
Yeah, modern amplifiers sound the same, and DACs, and CD transports ("it's just 1s and 0s!!!") etc etc. I wonder why we bother buying nice stuff, when we could just go to the electronic store at the corner of the street and buy a 150$ entry level amp with a DAC inside and be done with it. It measures the same, right?
Oh and McIntosh... typical "status symbol, pride of ownership, made in the USA" brand. Not saying it's bad stuff, but when someone has a lot of money and wants a crazy "sound system" to impress guests, that's one of the recurrent brands. Very expensive and very easy to recognize even by non-audiophile people. Just like Rolex is the go-to luxury watch brand for status symbol.
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40 minutes ago, jjptkd said:
I think you hit the nail on the head right here active / critical listening takes practice is a skill and some people are clearly better than others not to say that musical enjoyment is not shared by all.
Exactly. I do not MEAN to be a jerk or to diminish anybody. But it is a fact, critical listening is a skill and is something one learns and practices. That being said, just enjoying one's system as it is and just enjoying the tunes without caring is absolutely fine, as long as you don't make fun of those who need to go further. We all have different expectations / needs / etc. Keeping an open mind is mandatory.
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15 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:
Bravo!
Seriously, it is so annoying. I'm glad I'm not the only "believer" (I hate that word) on this forum! Cheers mate.
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On 6/19/2022 at 9:40 PM, ka7niq said:I do not claim to have golden ears. I am a 67 year old Man, who cleaned roofs for most of my life, so I was never exposed to excessive sound levels, and always wore ear protection at Concerts.
I have never heard any differences at all in sound with various speaker cables. Yet I have some really Fat ones from MIT that look like large snakes, on my floor.
I have compared these big *** MIT Cables with Zip Cord, and never heard any differences.
Then WHY do I have them ?
Because my good friend will flat turn off when listening to my system with Zip Cord!
In fact, though I use a Yamaha Receiver as my preamp to drive whatever amp I am using at the time, if my friend is coming over to listen, I have to put an old 2 channel preamp that does NOT use any OP Amps,, because if I don't, he will refuse to listen to my system with me!
Of course, he does not come over much, and my Cat thanks him! The large thick MIT Speaker Cables have literally scared my poor Cat to death! I have seen her forget the cables are there, see them, then go several feet in the air vertically!
They scare her!
One day, he came over, only to discover the amp I had connected did not have a power card as thick as a fire hose hooked up to it. So yes, I have one of those, I just forgot to hook it up that day! I installed the Huge Power Cord, yet he still refused to listen, saying the power cord needed a few days to "season".
LOL, he lent me some interconnects once that had arrows on them, to tell you the direction of current flow. Just to mess with him, I told him I had the arrows going towards the pre amp, LOL
He told me that I "ruined his interconnects", until I told him I was just messing with him!
He is a good guy, and a longtime friend, and not a stupid person either.
But I almost feel sorry for him ......Do not feel sorry for your friend. You may think he's a fool, which is sad, because he is not.
Using an AVR as a two channel preamp in what is meant to be a quality two channels stereo system is like putting an old Chevy motor in a Ferrari. It sucks, and it makes no sense. Yes, a discrete 2 channels preamp DOES sound better. If you cannot hear the difference, fine, but then that's you. Not your friend being an idiot.
Speaker cables in my system make a HUGE difference. But, MIT isn't a very good brand (sorry). A high price isn't a guarantee for better sound.
Yes, power cords (just like any cable) need a few days to break in. Why? You may dismiss it as foolishry, again, and decide to mock it and make fun of your friend, or you can google the various explanations. Has to do with the dielectric "charging" or something like that. I have experienced it with all my cables. The more complex the cable, the more obvious. I have found that silver plated, teflon dielectric wires take more time than basic copper wire, and you can hear it much more easily. Go ahead, mock me, make a fool of me, I won't change my mind about it. Brand new cables can sound harsh and congested, while a broken in cable will sound MUCH smoother and open. Again, very easy to hear, if you are a serious listener with a good revealing system. Very easy to verify, as well: put a well used cable on one channel, and a brand new identical cable on the other, I guarantee you will have a hard time getting an even, coherent, well centered stereo image. If you hear what a coherent stereo image is, of course.
Cable directionality? Yes, it has to do initially with the ground end. But then, as you use your brand new cable, it breaks in in THAT position, and using it reverse kinda screws the break in, and it has to be done all over again (not a big deal, and no it won't destroy the cable, obviously, but the cable will not sound at its best for a while. Again, some cables can be more sensitive to this, depending on the geometry and materials used. That's what your friend was scared about. Ask him. Again, if for you cables don't make a difference, you will dismiss this as foolish. Your loss, if you ask me, not your friend being an idiot).
I have an actively tri-amped system, home made, kind of LaScala on steroids with 2inch mid drivers and a larger bass horn, with two active subs for the lows. That's three times more cables than your usual system. I can tell you, being active let's you hear more things, and the more cables you have, the more they impact the sound. I didn't spend fortunes, but I would never ever swap my cables for something else. I'm getting a little tired of the constant mockery about people using "fancy" wires or high-end electronics. We aren't idiots. We don't have crazy amounts of money to waste - I certainly don't! Has it ever occurred to you those "fools" might just have better ears? or just listen to their system with more attention to little details? You might just be enjoying the music and that's fine, probably even something one could envy, but does that make all the MANY audiophiles who find differences in the "small" details FOOLS? Have you ever tried to research WHAT could possibly cause those perceived differences under a different bias than "it's all just bullshit"? Because if you do, you might find interesting information, and you might see things differently.
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On 6/18/2022 at 9:55 PM, jason.justice said:
Confirmed with Crites that these speakers should ~98db efficient. Replaced caps and tweeters from Crites.
Paired them with a 20wpc Schiit Aegir and Freya +.
with volume set to 3 o clock position, I’m getting peaks of about 98db using a decibel meter on my phone.
Does this sound like the speakers are functioning properly?
maybe I’m missing something but I keep reading on here about people who power their vintage Klipsch with very low power thanks to the sensitivity.
is it expected that I would have to crank a 20w amp?
(please take it easy on me, I’m still trying figure this all out)
There is something wrong in the gain structure of your system, I think. Are you sing your Freya + in active mode? Even in active mode, it's not a high gain preamp, if your source is on the low side, it might feel like there is not enough "juice". It's not about the amp's power output, it's about how much voltage you give it at the input.
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Question about speakercables
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
Speaker cables can make a big difference. Try Belden 9497 (cheap) then try some upmarket Nordost, for example: if you hear no difference, it's time to sell your system and purchase some bluetooth speaker.
I've owned QED, Naim, Nordost, Belden, Duelund, Leedh, and various no-name cables from department stores. They ALL sound different. That's not to say you cannot be happy with lamp cord; of course you can. But to claim all cables sound the same is pure ignorance. Or you didn't try the right cables, or your ears are shot from listening to AC/DC at 110dB+ for half of your life. That's it.