henry4841

You are right. This is after all a social media forum and not a technical one and the truth does not always matter. Lots of times it just comes down to who speaks the most and loudest. He will not go wrong with a Mac.

Autotransformers technically. Like the autotransformers in the old Heritage line of speakers. Being a Mac I would not be too concerned. Great reputation when it comes to sound. I am sure it controls the bass speaker adequately.

Deleted what I previously posted. If you do not believe Nelson Pass you certainly will not believe anything I have to say.

Guys I think we are splitting frog hairs discussing this. IMHO all 3 cases will sound fantastic in the real world with nothing nasty coming from the speaker. On paper, sure one may look better than the others but let's not say the speaker system will sound awful with any of the mentioned crossovers. Oh you cannot do that, it will sound awful! I do not think any of us would say that with a straight face. Just being practical using common sense.

You can have great sound quality in a 200 watt amplifier and there is nothing wrong with buying such an amp. But to say you need that much power with 100db speakers is just not true. I have experimented with conventional full range 95db speakers and have found a 2 watt amplifier more than adequate for them as well. It really bothers me to hurt someone's feelings but my intention is to tell the truth that I know to be true. This is not a disagreement but reality, just a few good clean watts is all our speakers need. Especially in a tube amplifier. In a SS amplifier I have found a few more watts is desirable if one wants to get crazy with volume knob at times. I will say 10 watts of SS of being plenty. When I first read of our tube guru, tubefanatic, building less than 1 watt amplifiers I thought it was nuts. Everyone knows you need 100watts right. I learned from experience just how a few watts is plenty from experience and not from what one reads and repeats on a forum. It is true one gets better bass with a really good SS amplifier at just one watt vs a tube amplifier at one watt but it is the design difference and not the power making it so. That said a well designed SET tube amp has great bass it is just that a SS can be somewhat better in the bass department. Damping factor playing a big part controlling a big bass speaker.

Spinner we have been down this road recently and you still persist in saying this with nothing backing up your statement as I told you Nelson Pass has done in his laboratory. Again Nelson has a scope set up showing a 1 watt widow with the signal never getting out to that window with 95db speakers with people telling him to turn it down. At the time you claimed to have a scope and I will assume a generator as well if you do any audio work at all with me telling you how to do the test yourself. It annoys me that you think you know more than Nelson and perhaps you do but you need to state your credentials and the test you have performed along with the flea amps you have in your possession before you post this again or I am going to call this misinformation turning members away from trying some of the excellent flea amps as the Decware Zen with our speakers. Just this week I replaced my 150 watt SS amp with the Decware Zen and it sound much much better with more power than I would ever use. Just facts and I posses many flea watt tube amps along with 20 or more SS and tube amps in my house to compare them with. I also have an electronic lab in my house as well. Look, I am on this forum to make friends and I hope you do not take this post wrong but facts speak louder than empty words. I could claim my old 70's Bose 901's with the Decware Zen sound better than the new Jubilees but that does not make it true. All I am trying to say is you are going to have to prove to me you know than the master Nelson Pass. I know for a fact you are wrong with as well as the other SET tube lovers on this forum. Paul Klipsch filled auditoriums with sound with 5 watt amplifiers as well before there was any SS amps. Five tube watts with Klipsch speaker are more than enough. Just fact and not empty words.

I probably mistook what he said. Thanks for bringing it up. I agree with him that I would prefer building the AL-3 over the AL. I will delete some of my previous post.

Previous post deleted. But I honestly see nothing wrong with running the AA with the other drivers. IMHO the speaker system will still sound great.

Lots of negative postings on the AL crossover over the years which if I am not mistaken started with Bob Crites, an after market seller of crossovers. I personally had and used the AL crossover on my LaScala's for decades and everyone that heard my speakers loved the sound. The circuits in question in the AL are the notch filters smoothing out the frequency response which was all the rage in the magazines of that period. Notch filters have been around for years and was nothing new at the time. Still used by many speaker systems. As far as K55M vs K55V, I expect nothing more than a supplier change for reasons only known by management. I am almost sure the response is really close to being equal and that it really has no bearing on the sound heard. Sure one will find subtle difference that really do not matter. You may have a dip here and there from the K55V with the K55M but frequency response really is not a big concern with modern electronic music. Someone with a trained ear using acoustic instruments could possible hear a difference in the frequency response from a speaker system vs a real quality violin let's say. Just how many of us fall in that category. From memory the old K-horns vary something like 5 degrees plus or minus from a flat frequency response. That is a lot compared to what other speakers were achieving in the 70's and 80's. Did that make the other speakers sound better. Absolutely not. On paper sure but as soon as one experienced the dynamics and live sound of the K-horn they never knew how music should sound. I have been using AA's replacing my AL's for years now and I love how they sound, not that there was anything wrong with the AL's. In a way I wish I still had them back for comparison. I actually have all the parts other than the old can caps and who knows. I may build them back one day. Not likely being I really see no point. Both can and do sound fantastic. Just different. Lot's of nitpicking of systems and parts on social media forums but let's not forget the big picture. The worse speaker system Klipsch has made will sound just wonderful. For the OP, build the AA's. Why, cheaper and easier are two good reasons. And I guarantee they will sound wonderful. Why AA's vs A's. The delicate tweeter needs the extra protection in the AA's. Other than that I would choose the A's. I like simple circuits with few parts. Many find fewer parts sound better.

Nothing wrong with any of the 3 crossovers IMHO with those drivers. All would work and sound great. I like the AA's myself being simple with few parts.

I was a big fan of Crown products in the 70's, early 80's owing their IC150 pre, DC150A and DC300A. I thought Crown sold to an Asian company years ago but apparently the D75 was made by the same company from what you guys are saying. The pre IC150 is now not considered that great even when built but it served me well for decades. That Crown DC300 was a beast for touring bands. Almost indestructible from all accounts used by some of the largest bands of the time. By the way I still have all three components but none working. I thought of getting them back working but there is not a large market for them so for now they are collecting dust. That and the DC300 is a heavy piece of gear to be moving around on the bench. It was not cheap when I bought it way back when.

There has been many happy members here with those Crowns. I was a fan of the old USA Crown products. Am I correct in that the Crown's made now are Chinese made? Moot point as long a quality control is maintained but just curious. From what little googling I have done the D75 is made for professional use with fans for cooling. That is a turnoff for many but personally I have no problem with fan cooling as long as you do not hear it when music playing. I was curious what type of amplification it uses and found class A/B, old school now a days with class D having taken over the professional amp production. At least by most bands. Perhaps someone with the history of the company and amplifier will chime in and enlighten us.

Anyone audiophile would be happy to own either one of your guys last buys. Best sound I have heard is a SET 300B. At least with my LaScala's which we all three own.

Some confusion on my part. The D150A with 75 watts per channel was the one I was referring to and not the d75.

I misspoke and deleted.

You want to know a secret? Tubes still rule when it comes to sound. This is from a Nelson Pass groupie.

Not familiar with Sugden, sorry. The thing is with a Nelson Pass amp you get matched components at critical places with a burn in period and adjustment to assure proper working order before being offered for sale. The last one built is assured to meet specifications as the first one built. In other words time consuming hands on testing and assembly that major assembly line audio amplifier manufacturers do not do. Customer support long after the sale if the need ever arises. Most of the time there is a waiting period to receive one of their products. By the way the USA is not their main selling place in the world. Nelson is also a big proponent of class A and for a reason. Still considered the best form of amplification for a reason. If not mistaken most of the offerings are mosfet instead of BJT's or IC chips as in Yamaha's or other mass produced amps. There is a difference in sound from a mosfet amp and a BJT. Naturally such detail and quality control comes at a price but one can be assured the product will last for decades. Nelson at diyaudio said they recently tested a 40 year old amplifier of his and the capacitors still tested good. There are reason for this I will not get into.

Not what I would call discrete component amplifiers from a look at the schematics. Full of IC's and even microprocessors. Moot point if they sound good though. I have found IC's can and do sound excellent. Integrated circuits were abundant in the tuner section of 70's receivers. Many of the 70's amplifiers and receivers started using what are called power packs for the output section of an amplifier. They would not be called discrete component amplifiers. Discrete components mean three legged creatures and not the many leg centipedes. Yamaha has been a leader in amplification for decades. I would call them modern designed amplifiers using modern components. The lower priced one I rejected years ago was probably just a fluke. Gave it away. Best I can remember it cost around $4 to $500 15 years ago and was not that great sounding lacking bass as well. Many happy owners of the ones listed above though with great reviews and loyal following. But a company like PassLabs and Firstwatt still make true discrete amplifiers for the discriminating audiophile. From the living legend Nelson Pass as well.

You will not go wrong with PassLabs. A step above a Yamaha in my book. Not that there is anything wrong with Yamaha. The last Yamaha integrated I bought did not sound that swell to me but it was not a top of the line one and was years ago.

Talking about 8 300B's producing just 1.5watts, Roger Modjeski at one of his lectures said one should expect 1/3rd power out from what you bias the tubes at. If not something is not right.

Glad to see you as well Aric Audio. Using 8 300B tubes and only getting 1.5watts confused me as well. In my SET 300B amp I believe I reached around 7 watts only biasing the tubes around 80%. By the way if anyone wants to check the 1 watt window with a scope to see if they exceed the 1 watt level it is easy to do. With a signal generator set it with a 1K signal at 2.83V's AC and adjust the scope where the sine wave is between two lines on the scope. Then without turning off the scope attach the scope to the back of the speaker and see when listening at a very loud level if the sine waves ever exceed the lines on the scope. I have never done the test myself believing Nelson knows what he is talking about using what I believe are Tannoy speakers rated at somewhere around 95db Nelson uses when testing his new designs for PassLabs and Firstwatt. At what most call too loud for conversation in his listening room. I trust he is telling the truth. I have done the simple test with a VOM at my speaker seeing if the signal ever reaches 2.83v's which is 1 watt. I only have seen a couple of volts myself on peaks at my listening level. Most of the time never seeing 1v ac let alone 2.83v's. Our speakers are fantastic only needing a few good clean watts. PWK said when tubes ruled 5 watts the sweet spot. Another giant in the audio field I consider who knew what he is talking about. When one is using only a few watts on peaks with our horns I see no need for wasting money on watts that will never be used buying an amplifier purely on their watt rating. More sounding better is a myth spread by manufactory's hyping their product to fool the masses. When one reaches another level in their audio journey they begin to cut through the hype and seek quality amplifiers rather than overhyped large watt ones. Called audiophiles, whatever that truly is. By the way I could be happy with just my Little Sweetie 1 watt amplifier designed by our own Maynard, tubefanatic, if need be. At the level I now listen at it is plenty enough. Great sounding little amp along with my diy built Zen clone with 2 watts. There are many on this forum praising the sound of that little Decware Zen.

Well, do the test yourself and see if Nelson Pass knows what he is talking about. You can be right and Nelson be wrong. Just because electronic engineers and geeks travel from all over the world to see him at the Burning Amp Festival held every year does not necessary mean he knows what he is talking about. He does not even have an electronic engineer degree, he majored in physics. Electronics was just a hobby for him in college. You are not saying I do not know what I am talking about but rather one of the, if not the best, audio engineer in the 20th and 21st century. I think most knowledgeable people in the audio field consider him the best and an audio engineer even if he does not have a piece of paper saying so. Personally, I am just an uneducated redneck from the deep south that consider myself just an electronic geek that has owned LaScala's since "86. I just play with electronics for fun, mostly audio gear. I now have around 25 different working amplifiers with many more boards and disassembled amplifiers I have tried over the years. The working ones are the ones I consider some of the best and worth keeping. I rotate them in and out of my system depending on my mood. I use to listen loud and never exceeded over a few watts any time I have decided to do the test using my LaScala's. Just me and my test, believe what you want. Makes no difference to me either way. Just so you know I am not against high power amps for the last few weeks I have been using a class A/B SS 150 watt per channel amplifier along with a tube pre during the hot months we have in the deep south. It is called the Honey Badger, a project at the diyaudio.com designed by some of the best engineers and hobbyist in the world. Not a cheap build costing me upwards of $1,000 to complete. I do have it biased so that it stays in class A for a few watts, where it will never get out of using our speakers. Great sounding amplifier but not a SET 300B. There is no better midrange and vocals with any other type of amplification.

Not knowing your age but it seems we both thought alike at one time. I bought a DBX expander 40 years ago and used it for many years. Now I take everything I can out of the audio circuit wanting no manipulation of the audio signal. You will not get any closer to a wire with amplification except by using a SET amplifier. As simple as it gets with few parts. The drawback is one needs efficient speakers to use a SET. All boils down to our speakers are excellent for 5 watt SETs. Klipsch horns rule. But if you are happy with what you have one only has to please themselves and not us old folks on a social forum who think they know better. The main point is what you see as azz is just the design of the amplifier you are using. SET's do not have the best control of the woofer like a well made SS PP amplifier. The SS PP amplifier does not need to be a mega watt one, just the typical class A 25 watt one is all one needs as far as power. Knowledgeable electronic guys understand for a transistor to sound the best it needs to be pushed to almost it's limit. Within reason of course keeping a long life. Class A/B is just idling at rest whereas a class A amplifier the transistors are being run at something like 60% let's say. Do not take the 60% figure as word, but just to get the idea of a hard working boy is a happy boy as the designers of amplifiers say.

Having used both Edcor and Hammonds transformers I would not say one is better than the other. They both build and sell great transformers. Hammond gets my nod now because I do not have the patience to wait a few weeks for Edcor to build them. The drawback is to look nice, IMHO, the Hammonds need to be placed underneath the chassis. That being said many do not and I personally have no problem with them being placed on top.

Not to pick on you but Nelson Pass has shown, and still does show, that transients, peaks, do not exceed 1 watt on a scope in his rather large listening room at a volume where most say turn it down with less efficient speakers than our horns. Just facts most anyone with the ability and equipment can prove. He has stated this many times in his online videos. Trust me I am sure Nelson has a scope capable of showing transients, peaks. A layman can prove this with a simple VOM using ohms law himself but not with the accuracy of a scope. But close enough to prove my point. Turn you music as loud as you care to and measure the peak AC volts on a decent meter. It must show 2.83vs on peaks for 1 watt. I have been called by many in the past of listening too loud at a volume with my LaScala's and never measured 2.83vs AC on peaks. Average is much less. Even if you clip a 1 watt SET tube amplifier you will never know it as with a SS amplifier clipping. The Decware Zen with it's 2 watts is a favorite with horns with an almost 2 year wait period to get one. That is the last time I looked. Not to argue, I was in your camp of needing mega watt amplifiers for decades until I learned better. I thought and used a 190 watt per channel power amp with my LaScala for 3 decades thinking I needed all that power. Having more 5 watt amplifiers than I can remember now I know better. That 5 watt SET 300B of Shakey's is a beast with our speakers. He has enough power for hearing damage without clipping now. The hype manufacturers of amps to promote more watts is better is a selling point. Been that way for decades to fool the masses but not serious audiophiles and electronic geeks who know better. This is the reason a site like this one is nice. To cut through the hype and state facts. The knowledgeable audiophiles and electronic guys on this forum are just stating what they know against all the hype of advertisement. With our horns think quality over quantity when it comes to watts.