jeffgeorge

Thanks for all of your input. I will look into all of your suggestions. Mike, I don't want to say that I have a "budget"... you know what I mean? ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha DVD: Sony DVP-NS300 ------------------------ Outdoor system: Amp: Onkyo A8067 Tuner: Onkyo T4057 CD: old Sony Outdoor speakers: Klipsch HS-2

Thanks Bob. Would the RSW-10 be a significant improvement over the KSW-12 with respect to more accurate bass. Will it also produce more bass?? I like the idea of the RSW-12... it's just too far out of my budget. ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha DVD: Sony DVP-NS300 ------------------------ Outdoor system: Amp: Onkyo A8067 Tuner: Onkyo T4057 CD: old Sony Outdoor speakers: Klipsch HS-2

I am wanting to upgrade and go with more bass for my HT. I have a KSW-12 and would like more bass. I have considered getting a KSW-15, or perhaps a RSW-12 (more $$). The other possibility might be to go with another KSW-12 for dual sub action. Any advantage to that? Ideas please! The room is 15' X 18' with 8' high ceiling, medium height carpet and paneled walls. ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha DVD: Sony DVP-NS300 ------------------------ Outdoor system: Amp: Onkyo A8067 Tuner: Onkyo T4057 CD: old Sony Outdoor speakers: Klipsch HS-2

I really like my 2801, which is similar to the 2802. Mine is hooked up to the Reference line, but would also sound very good with the Synergy series I am sure. ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha DVD: Sony DVP-NS300 ------------------------ Outdoor system: Amp: Onkyo A8067 Tuner: Onkyo T4057 CD: old Sony Outdoor speakers: Klipsch HS-2

For the rear channel, you might try the Reference series in-wall. For center, besides the Acadamy... look for a KLF-C7, or next the RC-3, or RC-7. If that does not work... try finding a new wife... just kidding. ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha DVD: Sony DVP-NS300 ------------------------ Outdoor system: Amp: Onkyo A8067 Tuner: Onkyo T4057 CD: old Sony Outdoor speakers: Klipsch HS-2

All I can say is I love mine. I don't think you can find a better bookshelf for anywhere under $2000. maybe even more. Klipsch is also marketing these as nearfield monitors in recording studios... awsome! ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha DVD: Sony DVP-NS300 ------------------------ Outdoor system: Amp: Onkyo A8067 Tuner: Onkyo T4057 CD: old Sony Outdoor speakers: Klipsch HS-2

John, I know there is much debate as to the set-up of the LFE, small vs. large, etc. It sounds like you have decided on the RB-5's, which in my opinion is a good choice for your size room. I have both the RF-3's and RB-5's, so mybe I can be a tie breaker, or maybe just another guy with his 2 cents submitted. No matter which speaker you go with... EXPERIMENT! That is the only way you will know what best suits you and your room. It's also a lot of fun. Another thing... whatever you do, you will be well served by purchasing a RC-3 in the future. It is a seamless match accross the front, and dialog/sound effects/music in movies will have the detail that it intended to have. Bottom line... good luck and have fun with your new Klipsch's. ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha DVD: Sony DVP-NS300 ------------------------ Outdoor system: Amp: Onkyo A8067 Tuner: Onkyo T4057 CD: old Sony Outdoor speakers: Klipsch HS-2

samcat, You could go with the reference speakers and Denon 3801 and hold off on a sub for now. I have made the mistake of going for the lower line of Klipsch in the past (older Synergy series). I can't say they were not good, in fact, compared to most speakers on the market, they are excellent, but they just were not the Reference series. The Reference series has a refined quality that is impossible to find at anywhere close to their price range. I find that the RF-3's are very satisfying for music and movies without a sub. Granted, movies do sound better with the sub, but I think if you are wanting an excellent system from the start and you need to save a little $$, go with the full Reference line minus the sub. That of course is mt 2 cents. ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha

All I can say is that I am very happy with my system for HT. I also like my RB-5's in my stereo set-up. If you want a good all-around speaker that can handle music as well as HT, and you don't have space limitations, I prefer the RF-3's over the RB-5's (a little more SLAM factor). I don't feel that the RB-5's are any more transparent... of course they are not positioned as well as the RF-3's are though. That will make a difference. Good luck on whatever you decide. ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha

I agree with Soundog... don't skimp on the receiver, or your main speakers. I did that a few years ago and spent way too much money trying to upgrade later. ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha

I have the Denon 2801 (last year's model). I really like this receiver. Very musical for a receiver in its price category. Great DD and DTS processing too. ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha

Tom, I have a Denon 2801, which should be very similar in operation to the 2802 you are thinking of buying. You can listen to one source while watching the video of a different source. In my manual it is called "simulcast playback". For instance, if you are listening to a cd, you push the video selct button until you reach the desired video source, in your case playstation. I hope this helps. Maybe you can hit that buy button today. By the way, I love my Denon! ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha

Yamaha receivers used to have variable loudness controls. They worked great. I dont know if they have them anymore. ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha

I have my RB-5's placed on 24" stands and are about a foot from the rear wall. The left speaker is flush with the end of the wall, which takes a 90 degree turn and goes down a hallway. The right one is about 5 feet from the corner of the room. Certainly not an optimal placement, but I don't have any boominess or midrange spikes that I can detect. Mark, one possibility might be to put some acoutic damping on the back wall of your shelf. This might dampen some of the boomy bass you are experiencing. Although, it might also make the bass sound a little muffled. Might be a cheap fix though. ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha

Thanks for the reponses. Al, let us know if you develop a design for the reference series in the future.

I have heard a lot of talk on this BB about ALK crossovers. Are they an outboard crossover? If so, can they be used with any Klipsch, or is it more for the Heritage line? What are the benefits? Thanks in advance... ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha

Jim, A 16 X 9 ratio television is the only format to rid you of those black bars. A 32" standard 4 X 3 screen will make things more pleasant, but it will never rid you of the black bars. I doubt that you can find a 16x9 screen that will fit that entertainment center, although I do now that more are showing up in the marketplace every day. ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha

I could not decide, so I bought both. I use the RB-5's for music listening and RF-3's primarily for home theater and some music listening. The Ear has it right, the RB-5's are a bit faster with bass, due to the single 8" driver. The question would be, are you going to use a subwoofer with either choice? If you are not, you might find the overall bass a bit more pleasing with the RF-3's. Just my 2 cents... ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha

I must agree, those Forte's thrive on rock and roll, guitar and jazz! I never had the chance to listen to them with classical, but not every speaker sounds right with classical. That is what I like about my Refernce series though. They sound good with all music, except they just lack the "slam" effect of good loud rock and roll. ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha

If memory serves me correctly, this used to be the flagship amp for Onkyo in the late 80's. Does it have a gold face? If this is the same one I am thinking of, I believe it was around 200 watts/channel. Of couse, I have not yet had my first cup of java yet, so I could be all wrong. ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha

Murphy, I have a similar set-up in my basement, and I must say it is well worth the money. One area to cut on cost might be in the sub. I have a KSW-12, and it fills the room with good deep bass. ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha

Lets tackle the first obstacle... your center channel will not exactly be a match for any of the possibilities you have listed. That being said, between the RF-3's and the RB-5's - Do you have a space limitation? If you do not, the better of the two would be the RF-3's. I have also owned Heresy's, so I think I can speak about those as well. The Heresy has a much different sound than either of the Reference series. The Reference series compared to the Heresy can best be described as more laid back. The Heresy is a more in-your-face type of sound. I hope this all makes sense. All three of these speakers sound great in their own right. The RF-3 has more bass presence than the RB-5 and the Heresy has more in-your-face sound than the other two, but does not have the bass response that the Reference series has. All are very accurate speakers! I guess my point is that you have to decide what is most important and narrow your choice from there. The best thing to do, would be to go listen to all three. If you lived close to me, I would even give you a chance to compare... ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha

My first question would be... have you ever owned Klipsch speakers before? ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha

I agree, go with Watco.

Mitch, The power specs that you are refering to are for the subwoofer. Niether the quintet, or any speaker in the system 6 are powered... therefore you will need some type of amplification. I honestly have never heard the quintets, but at one time I owned the predecessor... the Rebel, which I think was a rather large failure for Klipsch. I have also owned a pair... that is a pair of KSB 1.1's, which is what the system 6 is based on. Those little 1.1's were like night and day compared to the small Rebel sats that I previously owned. I think your best bet would be to spend the extra money and go with the system 6 and a receiver. With that being said, it begs for another question and possibly a more long term solution for you. Is there a reason that you must have a multi-channel system if all you are listening to is music? The best option IMHO would be to scrap the idea of multi-channel and go with traditional 2-channel. With the same investment, you could get a pair of better speakers within the Klipsch line... well just name any of them: Heritage, Reference, etc. I guarantee you will find a more pleasing sound, by investing more into the main speakers and less on the surround effect, especially if you are listening to music exclusively. You can always upgrade to mult-channel in the future. ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha This message has been edited by jeffgeorge on 10-12-2001 at 06:10 PM