Darkscience
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Posts posted by Darkscience
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Omg...ok so dark purple, dirac with subs in mono, with different cross overa on accident, sounds incredible. I think what happened was because the mains and and the subs, basically think of it as three different low end sources help to fill in the room mode dips. The sound is incredibly balanced, way more detail in the low end, i got rid of any boomyness (previously the sound was good but heavy bass music sometimes sounded off a bit boomy and bloomy), now, even at low volume I get the best kick drum punch and NO BOOm. I think all I may try now is maybe tweak the high end roll off a hair higher, (dont need a new measurement just tweaking the proposed eq line in Dirac), but I think I can finally relax and just enjoy the sound without thinking I need to keep doing more. A complete accident...I hope you all get to what your after, its worth the effort. Drank lots of beer tonight, part of the reason I effed up but it was a lucky thing, cause it sounds great and the measurement shows no big dips!!! Gnight yall
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Ok, so I redid the measurements.
1. Dark Purple is Dirac with Mains and Subs, Mains High Passed at 70hz 24db roll and Subs one Low Passed at 60hz, the other full range, both mono. (this is not what I intended I screwed it up, so tired...but the graph actually looks nice, no big dips!! I could be on to something, no listening test yet..)
2. Green, original measurement with pads and no Dirac, has bass extension but lots of dips.
3. Light Purple is Dirac with no subs, looks weird, I might have screwed something up, I really need to do this when I am not tired...
Anyways, going to do some listening, I think #1 is going to sound sweet, looks like a big dip from bass to treble but Dirac gave the bass side a 8db boost which is what it shows. I am getting closer to getting a nice response. Gnight, wanted to share my work tonight, (sloppy but maybe it worked out great!).
PS I highly recommend everyone measure when they make changes so you can see what your changes are doing, and then correlate that to listening. It will help you figure out what you like. My family hates me right now...haha
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19 minutes ago, KT88 said:
I am glad that you now like your CW4 very much. When I see your measurements I wonder where this very deep bass comes from. The line without rubber pads in the graph corresponds approximately to the frequency response in the bass that I would expect with the data of the CW4. Why does it go so low with the rubber pads? I suspect that it can not come from the CW4 "itself" but that in some way certain room modes are excited? Anyway, the important thing is that the result is musical and you are now very satisfied.
Yes, I am not an expert but have been dabbling with measurements and reading alot over the past year or so. My take is it is the what I call room gain. Calling it room mode excited could be the same thing said differently not 100% sure. My Cornwall are in corners but away from the walls about 6" on the back and 15" on the side, when I put the pads underneath, I instantly heard not only deeper bass but also smoothness throughout, I believe the smoothness comes from less distortion, (from the cabinet rattling on the tile, exagerated because I never actually heard any rattling except at extreme volumes), why it all of a sudden extended the low end I am not 100% sure about, my guess is the pads eliminated most of cabinet resonance that was sucking energy from the woofer.
Just to be clear too I have always loved the CW IV and its just I took them to a new level so that got me excited and drinking beer and posting hehe. I was selling them because I will nees to move this year at some point and figured I did not want to lug them around but now I will gladly and they will always be with me.
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I might be better off spending the $2k on bass traps hmm.
Edit: Scratch all that, I need the subs because I listen to alot of Metal, I like to feel the low end drum kick hit me. Also alot of Kraftwerk, for everythng else like smooth jazz etc I wouldnt need them. I need more dynamic capacity at the low end that the CWIV is not designed for beyond 38hz.
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What I meant is that because the low frequency extension is nice with the pads perhaps I can do without subs. But I think I could be wrong because I have a 6db boost in the low end with the subs that I would not dare do with the CWIV alone. My understanding is it is dangerous to boost the woofer beyond its rated ability. So with the subs I get better low end control. Im going to do some experimenting tonight or tomorrow with Dirac and no subs. Never dawned on me to even try it. It comes down more to wether the tiny bit og extra bass and control is worth the $2k I paid for the pair. We will see ill report back.
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I just realized something...I dont believe my subwoofers are doing anything for me? Need to run dirac without the subs and see results, but I am almost certain the subs are going back.
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3 hours ago, Flevoman said:
Interesting topic 👍🏻.
Are these the pads you placed under the speakers?
I miss the punch in the bass on the CW4.. Did these pads also give more punch?
And what kind of an amp do you use?.. Tube amp of a SS amp
DiversiTech MP2-E E.V.A. anti-vibratie pad, 2" x 2" x 7/8", Pack van 4 https://www.amazon.nl/dp/B01KAFG8EG/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_Z4XJZ1D0DKXA12WGNRH2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
yes those are them. See below what it did to the sound. IMO it added punch yes, but look at the graph and decide for yourself if you like the outcome. I ran Dirac after this to perform the room correction, no graph yet, but the sound is obviously better. My room has some nasty voids, from here it is small tweaking to get better sound, but my efforts are satisfactory to my ears so taking a break from doing more for now.
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I put a 2"x2" diversitech pad under each corner. Previously I had just some felt furniture pads under each metal button. My guess is you will hear improvement, for me it was not just noticeable, it was a complete transformation of the low end and better highs. I heard the difference, and also took a measurement of the frequency response and it showed the low end extending out much farther. For me it use to drop off rapidly at about 38hz, with the pads I believe it did not start to drop off till about 20hz, (at work cant look up the graph). So my guess is my room added gain to the speaker, it sounded super smooth. Cheap to try it, if you do please let me know how it goes, very curious.
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PS Audio is 100% GARBAGE.
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This post is nothing more than for me to say how much I love my CW IV and gear. Here is how this week went:
1. Was looking to sell my speakers, (I am moving at some point and just figured why not).
2. I repositioned my speakers in my listening room, (completely rearranged it, sold my love seat, put a recliner arm chair instead, I wanted perfect sound just for me).
3. I was playing a song with a lot of bass, (Come Together from Brian Bromberg, I don't dig it but someone posted a video with it playing and I wanted to compare).
4. I noticed some rattling noises as I cranked it, something made me buy those rubber/cork vibration pads and OMG!!! One of the greatest purchases of all time for me, completely changed the sound for the better, smoooooooth and the lows are so silky from the CW IV, glorious.
5. I ordered a pair of SVS 3000 subwoofers, in messing with that I noticed my Preamp RCA out was broken, that same day my miniDSP SHD arrived FULL I/O.
6. Send my Preamp for repair, and installed the mini, also got Ethernet lines ran to my music room, hooked everything up, it was meh with the subs.
7. While they were installing the Ethernet I put the vibration pads under the subwoofer....OMFG!! What glorious BASS down to 10hz.
8. My second sub had been delayed, I hooked it up in Stereo, everything with vibration pads, used Dirac Live to tune the system. Measure the results with REW before playing any music, Dirac almost flattened out my response from 10hz to 16hz with a light drop off, COOOOL.
9. Grabbed a beer, reclined and put some tracks on, HEAVEN! I highly recommend miniDSP SHD FULL I/O, it is a game changer.
The sound is incredible, the imagine, the clarity, the bass it is all PERFECT to me. It is hard to believe it could ever get better then this for me, maybe with some LaScala IDK but CW IV are AMAZING! I am a Klipsch fanboy for life and I am in love with my speakers. The music was sooo good I was literally falling in actual love with the speakers. So silky, so smooth and so clear, with just the most amazing soundstage. I hope everyone else finds this same glory for yourself one day, for me the game changer was the vibration pads, I highly recommend them, idk if they will work on carper and other things, but if your on a hard floor and want to unleash your speakers get them!! If anyone else tries it, I would love to hear about your results, its not just in my head, it worked 100%, the bass changed, became smooth and precise and musical. Anyways, going to go grab another cold one and cranking this system, I feel so fortunate. Metal sounds amazing, Cello, Pop, EDM everything!! (To think I was soo close to selling my CW IV, lmao)
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Today I added the cork/rubber sandwiches to the speakers at each bottom corner, it completely transformed the sound. The sound got more detailed and the bass is better then ever. I use to have the speakers on felt pads made for furniture before this, its all coming together, this is one amazing speaker. Addicted to listening to the music.
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I will have to do it another time, we are getting ready for mothers day lunch and its noisy as heck. But yea they sound find to me, I compared them with a pair of KEF R11 and I much prefer the strings on the CW IV, they sound right to me, with the body you are looking for, but also with great detail.
Youtube keeps copy right claiming my videos too so no luck. Good luck anyways.
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I personally think the strings sound great on my CW IV, I listen to cello and violin quite often. Hold my beer I will make a cell phone recording...(with the mic pointing to the side out into my living room/kitchen area mind you LMAO), but it is still fun to do.
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My advice, whatever you have done up till now, just stop and leave it alone. I would have just left the damage but it looks like you were able to blend it in some but you can make it worse and not even know. If they are lacquered finish, adding oils will make it so that you will never be able to properly apply lacquer in that spot, it will never stick, so you would now need to sand, etc etc. It is a rabbit hole, best to always leave it alone, and if it bothers you that much, hire a pro to fix it.
Since these are vintage inspired speakers a bit of wear/relic actually suites them and will never look bad, IMO. Of course I would also be upset but I have screwed up enough furniture, guitars, find wood décor to know that cheap repairs are never worth it in the long run. My CW IV are more of a light satin gloss finish too, I have the Black Ash, I am guessing yours are the same, rubbing them will make it shiny and that zone will stick out like a sore thumb. Anyways, my advice is to leave it alone from here on, you can't undo what you already did, but you can stop doing anything else.
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I would like to add, I am not advocating for Benchmark, I personally love it, but there are plenty of other gear out there that should get you a clean signal. What I am advocating is that you listen to the speakers, not the amp/pre/dac etc, and you can't do that without a baseline to reference from, and when you mix for example tube amps with the speakers, you never really know what is doing what, you might like it, (probably not on all music only certain kinds, I know because I have been there), and so your just mixing and layering distortion on top of each other. Get a strong, crystal clean signal fed to your speakers and you will start to hear what your speakers sound like, and know which ones you like the tone of and which ones you don't. From there you can mess around with gear that colors your sound if you please, I dabbled with a McIntosh tube pre but it was just terrible for me.
Also, this is all my method, my opinion on my way to look and hear it, I will never advocate it is superior to anyone else's method, I just want to be clear on that too. I do strongly advocate it though, because like I said, how else do you really know what your speakers sound like distortion free, unless you feed them a distortion free signal.
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I have never personally owned a Class Amp like the Pass Labs etc. I come from a background of numerous vintage receivers, I have tried some tube amps and like I said currently own the Benchmark system.
Here is how I look at it concerning the system, (sound aside). I had seen the data from the Benchmark DAC/Pre/Amp and saw that it was highly rated for incredibly low distortion, good beyond what we can even hear. As far as I am concerned I just want my Amplifier to feed power to my speakers with no distortion to my listening levels and a few DB more, (I want the amp to go more so I can get headroom for dynamics). This appeals to me because I know Horns and Klipsch preach low distortion as a key ingredient to good sound. Well, when I hooked it all up, I was in heaven with it, I can't describe the sound to you other then saying imagine a crystal clean signal, you will hear all the details, and they will sparkle in your room when you get your speakers properly set up in your room. I can turn up my amp loud and have ZERO hiss coming from the tweeter or anything, total blackness of a background. What I am now hearing is the sound of the Cornwall IV, uncolored by distortion. There is no harshness that I find, and think about it, does that make any sense that there would be harshness? Why would Klipsch design a speaker that sounds harsh because it is playing at extreme low distortion, it does not make sense.
Now that being said, there is nothing wrong with people liking anything else, regardless of how it "measures". Tube Amplifiers have the tons of distortion and color the sound, some people really like that sound and that is perfectly ok! For me though, I find that yea that sound is cool sometimes, but I do not want it in all my music, and again, once you come to the conclusion, as I have, that it is colored and you then learn to listen to what the recording actually sounds like, that colored sound starts to come off as a muddy sound, in other words, it is hard for me to ever go back, amplification wise to amps that have distortion and color the sound, I prefer the detail and the texture that you extract from a clean signal, (distortion hides detail and smooths out texture). The soundstage and imagine etc, that all comes directly from your speakers and how you set them up in your room, reflections, reverberations, resonance etc, and of course the CW IV delivers amazingly here, the voice is centered, the instruments are detailed and 3D imaging is excellent again that does not come from the amp, comes from the speaker.
It is not something that you might instantly love, psychoacoustics say you will likely think it sounds weird at first because your just not use to hearing something so clean, but trust me, crank up the volume and omg the sound, that is how you will get over that right away. Just crank it up loud and bath in glory. On the flip side, try cranking up something like a tube amp/SS amp that has distortion and it will sound muddier the more you crank it and the more you will hear distortion and hiss and all that. (Class A amps have tons of distortion IIRC, don't quote me). The type of amp is not the problem it is how much distortion does it produce.
Here is a sample for you, from yesterday: (Trust me the Youtube does not do it justice, this particular track is well recorded and I have it cranked quite loud here, louder than I listen but listen to the cleanliness of it, I also have my some room correction to further flatten the frequencies in my room full range).
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I love my CW IV, never heard the III's, I love them more than much more expensive speakers, the CW IV is amazing. (I run them with Benchmark gear, which I HIGHLY recommend)>
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I love my CW IV, I run them with SS and use room correction, they are AMAZING!
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I made some quick snips with my Cell Phone, obviously the in room experience is different, plus Youtube butchers the sound some, but maybe helps anyone looking. I am already regretting this decision some, so we will see lol.
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I hear ya and completely understand. I really wish I could help you out with a trade but I am just not interested in anything at the moment. Trying to reduce the amount of stuff I own is the goal. I also priced them at the anything lower and I rather keep them price but I guess it does not hurt to ask, just send me a PM with what you are looking at when your ready for that, never hurts to try.
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Hey sorry not looking for trades right now. Just want to sell the speakers but I appreciate the interest and offer. I think they will take some time to sell, not a lot of immediate interest in them.
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I also have them listed on CL but at a higher price. A nice discount for a real Klipsch fan on these forums. Anyone on these forum is welcome to demo, I have them hooked up, and they will be that way until I sell them.
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Hey,
I am planning to move this year and will be downgrading in space. I will probably get some bookshelf speakers to replace these. I struggle with selling them because they sound terrific but it is inconvenient to move. My new work requires me to move around a bit. They come from a smoke and pet free environment and I have babied them, really like new, less than 100 hours of listening time is my guess.
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No longer for sale, I fell in love with them again and can't part with them.
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I am in love with my speakers and gear! CW IV
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
I ran a test to see why running the two mains with no subs w/pads lacked the bass extension. It is because the pad measurement I have been showing is only one speaker, both speakers get a nice low end extension with pads. When I run the speakers together the bass cancels out. This is a reminder to me that the low end does not like symmetry, it is crazy to me that the bass goes away when running both speakers together. This also again reinforces my thought that measuring your speakers is a must or you do not know what is going on in your room. Non of these measurements are using Dirac or any EQ, just straight signal to amp.