Dustin B

That's easy, DIY will win hands down. Either build a massive infinite baffle, or a massive horn. $5000 would buy 32 Adire Tempest drivers (I'm counting on a bit of a discount that I'm sure could be had with the number being purchased). Then get a QSC PLX2402 or 3002. Build some simple manifolds, mount the drivers and wire them up to an appropriate load. Infinite baffle subs are so easy to drive that 3000W at 4 ohms would be oodles. For comparison the B4+ can displace ~8L of air. This setup would displace over 80L. Full reference level to below 16hz in larger rooms should be no problem. With horn loaded subs. The Lab12 project designed by Tom Danley should work well. Build 4-8 of these, get some advice on extending the horn mouths and placement from Mark Seaton and in a moderately sized home theater room you should be good for well over 140dB from 30hz and up. Will depend on the horn mouth extensions, number used and placement as to how well you can do under 30hz. Might be tricky to get sufficient wattage for this setup though with a $5000K budget.

The point of polyfill in a sub box isn't to absorb bass frequencies. The main use is to increase the appearant Vb the driver sees. http://www.integracaraudio.com/caraudio/resources/fiberfill/

IMO the cable run options are six of one half dozen of the other. Which ever is cheaper/more convient for you will work fine. As for what to expect. A big silly grin on your face for several days.

That's a big *** sub yes, but for the ultimate sub driver I'd have to go with this: http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/Dan/Parthenon/

Port cross sectional area has a big effect on how loud a sub can play around its tuning frequency. Plugging 2 ports on a PB2+ will limit a PB2+ to doing only slightly better in output than a 16-46PCi in the last octave.

That sub goes way way past the point of diminishing returns. Go to a custom build shop like Acoustic Visions or Rutledge Audio and they'll build you a clone of that thing with Adire Tumults, 1.5" thick baltic birch enclosure (will need to be a little bigger than the Krell) and a sweet veneered finish. Add a high power Crown or QSC amp and some appropriate pro audio piece to get you all the filters and EQ you need and you'll have a sub just as, if not more capable for ~1/4 the cost. Oh and there's no way that thing will do 120dB in room at the bottom of the last octave. Not gonna happen(unless you room is a closet). Something like the Acoustic Visions Everest might come close at the bottom of the last octave in room though.

Both the SS and B4 will sound great. The SS will play lower. The B4 is equivalent in output to ~3 SS subs everywhere except the bottom of the last octave.

The shape of the enclosure has no effect at all on the sound quality. The alignment is how an enclosure effects the sound. ie, what the net internal volume is and what the porting is (port cross sectional area and the choosen tuning point). The driver, power available and EQ also have effects. How much each of the above will vary the sound depends on which one is different and by how much. A cylinder has the advantages of not needing bracing to become rigid enough to not color the sound. They are also lighter, easier to build and cheaper than MDF boxes. Box subs when braced properly are just as good as a cylinder sub from a rigidity stand point. The extra weight can be an advantage in some situations. Boxes are easier to offer multiple finishing options on. All the SVS models will sound very similar when played insides the limits of the least capable model. You're more likely to be able to tell the difference between a 16-46PCi and 25-31PCi (and this will be tough if the material doesn't go very low) than you are the difference between a 20-39PCi and a PC-Ultra. They all sound very very similar. The difference comes in the output capabilities. When the 25-31PCi is past it's limits, straining and not sounding so hot anymore, the PC-Ultra will still sound great. Bottom line decide what you want on cost, asthetic, space and output considerations. When in the SVS lineup, sound quality isn't a consideration you need to make, they all sound so similar it doesn't matter. With that budget a PC+ sub would be an obvious choice. But if you have a moderate to large room the PB2 ISD would be worth the little extra you'll pay.

Bassreflex enclosure using a single active driver and a single passive radiator. http://www.stryke.com/prfaq.htm

Not really important but I think there should be a clarification of dynamic range. Subs often have more dynamic range than main speakers. Dynamic range is the differences between how quiet and how loud they can get. Where there is a big difference is in the range of frequencies they play (pass band, bandwidth, and many other terms for this). But I do completely agree with the underlying intention of your post. Sub tastes can be divided into 2-4 categories that pretty much everyone would fit in. While main speakers have a much greater variance in how they sound and what people like.

I'd talk with John as Styke to really nail down a design. But given that info I guess I'd recommend shrinking the enclosure to a little less than 3ft^3 to get the tuning point up to 25hz or so. 3ft^3 is between an Adire Rava and Adire Dharman in size. The sticky point will be the crossover between your Heresys speakers and this sub. You definately don't want to feed your Heresys the speaker level output of any sub plate amp. I don't know if it can be done, you'll have to look into it some more, but I think you'll have to hook your amps speaker level outputs to both the sub plate amps speaker level inputs and your Heresys in parallel. Then adjust the crossover dial on the plate amp until you get a nice blend with your mains. No plate amp has a good speaker level high pass, and most don't even have a decent line level one. I'm not famaliar enough with this older equipment. If you can run line level from somewhere to the sub plate amp and then to your tube amp that would be the best option, but only if you dish out for something like the Adire HS series plate amps.

That would make an excellent combination. Go with 3ft^3 though, not 2ft^3. Also buy a bunch of polyfill stuffing from walmart and lightly pack the enclosure with it. This will increase the apparent box volume to the driver and PRs and lower your tuning frequency the last little bit needed to get to a 20hz tuning point. Find out if the cabinet is braced at all though first. If it's not braced well I wouldn't recommend using it. If it's not you could always see what http://www.acoustic-visions.com/ or http://www.rutledgeaudiodesign.com could build for you in the way of an enclosure. They can go from just a flat kit all the way to a fully assembled unit or anywhere in between. Few questions though, what type of music are you into and at what levels do you want to listen? What receiver or pre/pro are you using? Is this a two channel system? What speakers are you using?

The PR is doing what it's supposed to, stopping and starting that quick. When it gets right down to it, really not much difference between a port and a passive radiator. With the air pressure forces generated inside (and outside) a sub for that matter, doesn't shock me at all that a PR that weighs from 1-3kg can be made to stop and start in a fraction of a second. The Stryke FAQ on passive radiators is pretty good at giving the basics on the subject. http://www.stryke.com/prfaq.htm

A review with measurements in the same room has already been done. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_4/subwoofers-12-2001.html

I'd take Adire's Brahma series over any JL Audio sub Just shy of 28mm one way Xmax, their XBL^2 motor topology, and $350/$380/$440 (10"/12"/15") to boot.

Very rarely does a driver that looks cool actually perform well. It's kinda like the kids who put the big spoilers, big exhaust pipes and snazzy tires on their Civic. Looks from not too bad to butt ugly, but does nothing besides slow the car down. And just like the car sub drivers, there are the few exceptions who do it right, with the required weight cutting and engine/suspension/transmission tweaking to actually make the car fast, rather than just look fast. My favorite Audiobahn spec is PHAT 2" surround on a driver with +/- 8mm of excursion. My Tempest does 16mm and uses a 1" surround. Some of their top drivers are posting decent specs (most have an Fs and Qts that are too high for home use). And I'm positive the ones that could compete with the Adire's Shiva/Tempest and Stryke's AV series would be selling for significantly more than $200.

One other difference is the PB2 has three 3" flared ports while the PB2+ has three 4" flared ports. Cheapest component difference between the two, but most import performance wise down low.

There are some very good car subs. There are many more very bad car subs. Almost any car driver can be made to sound good if placed in the right enclosure, sounding good at high levels is entirely different though. There are a number of manufactures with subs targeted for DIY home use that are exceptional. Typically the good car subs cost more than the ones of equivalent or better performance that are geared for home use. Car subs typically have a higher Fs which is not good for home use. They count on substantial cabin gain of a car cabin to make up the low end. In a house this gain isn't present at the same levels. They are also typically designed for use in small enclosures. This makes porting difficult (ports that can handle the air the driver can move end up longer than the enclosure can fit). Working in small boxes also means the sub will need lots of juice, unless it really lacks the low end. The most popular drivers in the home DIY market are from Adire Audio, Stryke Audio and the Dayton drivers from Parts Express. $150 will get you the Adire Tempest with a Vas of 320L, an Fs of 18hz and 2.55L of Vd. $205 will get you the Stryke AV15 with a Vas of 140L, an Fs of 22hz and 3.8L of Vd. If you've found a car driver that can come close to these specs for a similar price let me know.

Allas, that's the rub. No surround exists with over 7" of linear travel. The Tumult pushes the limits of a surrounds travel. It's all trade offs. Get a surround that can make that distance linearly, and it will be so rigid that the speakers sensitvity will be so low you can't get a motor with sufficient power handling to not melt before the sub starts really thumping. Well with current surround technology anyways. The original page on Adire's site needs to be looked at more carefully. Dan stated that with the 2' square baffle and a little room gain (ie the sub in the picture from CES in a typical home theater room) that 7" of travel will get you 120dB at 20hz. Or in other words dolby reference without a box. Or in even different words, a high output dipole sub, what a lot of people would consider the holy grail of subs. Dipoles are considered by many to be the only sub design that sounds better than an infinite baffle. Enclosures are a crutch, if you have the Vd to not need them, don't use them Dan also states on Adire's site that with the 2' square baffle and 7" of travel, if they could get a surround on it and mount it in an infinite baffle, it would be capable of providing more than enough bass for a 100 seat theater.

Still working on the same concept, just a new topology on the motor that allows extreme linear excursion. It's biggest use for the home user will be for a dipole sub application.

Mike, not 24" x 24" cube, the cone will be a 24"x24" sqaure, it will need a 4'x4'x4' box if you wanted to put it in an enclosure. And in an IB, Dan figures it could handle a 100 seat theater. With a 24"x24" cone and 7" of excursion it will have the Vd of 12 Tumults. Dan also claims in a typical room you could drop just the driver, no box, no baffle, no nothing, just the driver and get 120dB at 20hz with it acting like a dipole sub. Dan also mentions what he feels the practical extreme would be. A 48"x48" cone with the motor able to do 12" of excursion. That comes to 450L of displacement in comparison to the Tumult at 5.1L.

Daisy chaining is when you run an input to one device, then that device has an appropriate output you run to the next device. But bottom line is whether you are using one of their powered models or one of the passive models with a pro amp you'll need to run a cable to each sub (well unless your seperate amp can handling being bridged into 2 ohms). On the seperate amps you have to run an input for each channel. And on the powered models, there is no output appropriate for daisy chaining, the only ouputs have been high passed. However, if you have a long run to make, there is nothing saying you can't put the Y adapter just before you make it to the subs.

I suggest you either do a lot more reading first, or follow a plan someone else has already proven. Your first suggestion of using one driver for a PR would be a major waste of money and not make proper use of the driver. There are purpose built PRs with no motor structure that sell for a bit less than the AV15. The rule of thumb is that the PRs should have at least twice the Vd of the active drivers. Vd is the radiating surface area of the driver or PR, multiplied by it's peak to peak stroke. This is usually converted to litres. You can then add the PR and active driver values of each box together. Bottom line though is each AV15 should be run with a pair of Stryke 18" PRs. So if you want to put two AV15's in each enclosure you should have 4 18" passive radiators as well. I'd recommend the enclosures be between 240 and 280 litres net internal volume each. I'd mount the drivers and PRs in pairs symetrically opposed on the enclosures. The PRs will need to be weighted somwhere between 2000 and 2500G each for a tune in the 18-22hz range (this will be dependant on the enclosure size you finally decide on). 500W per driver will be more than enough power to reach Xmax as well. Big bass reflex enclosures don't need as much power as small sealed ones to reach a drivers mechanical limits. Keep in mind that built properly each of these boxes when completed will weigh in the 200-300lbs range. Your second option is simply a no go. Enclosure will just get to big to properly house 4 AV15 drivers (need 350L plus mine and it will end up weighing well over 400lbs). And 4, 4" flared ports definately isn't enough. If you want to go the ported route (same thing as PR by the way, ports and PRs are just variations on the same theme) I'd recommend two 260-300L enclosures. Pair of AV15 drivers per enclosure and a pair of 6" flared ports per enclosure (Rockfort Fosgate or newfoam sell the flares I believe). At 280L net the ports will each have to be 27-28" long to tune the enclosure to 20hz. Again the enclosures will end up in the 200-300lbs range and 500W per driver would be oodles. And if you actually build either of these pairs, just sell the RSW15, you won't need it anymore. Oh, and if an infinite baffle is an option, definately do it. Much easier to build and arguably the best bass around. Want louder, just add more drivers. http://www.f20.parsimony.net/forum36475/ Instead of buying all thouse PRs, just by 4 more AV15 drivers. Put all 8 in a proper manifold. Wire them such that your amp can handle the load (IB subs need a fraction of the power thier box bretheran do) and you'll have a little over 30L of Vd to thump you good and hard. For reference, your RSW15 is likely a little under 3L.

The smallest ported Tempest box I've seen Dan Wiggins recommend is a 160-170L tuned to 18hz with a 4" flared port. This enclosure will however not allow the Tempest to reach it's full potential. Both the Shiva and the Tempest are capable of playing well below 20hz, if put in the right enclosure. And both can be powered to their limits with 250W, again enclosure dependant. The big difference is, given a proper enclosure, the Tempest has a litre more displacement ability than the Shiva. Which allows it to play louder. A pair of Shivas should be able to outgun a Tempest though (0.5L displacement advantage). But a pair of Shiva's would need two 4-5 ft^3 boxes or one 8-10ft^3 box.

Volume dials are almost always mislabelled, more often than not they should be labelled as gain dials. Gain means the input signal is boosted. So no matter what the input signal is, you'll give it the same amount of boost with a given dial position. So with the dial set at zero, if your input signal is high enough you could still clip the amp. Volume means you have an absolute control where max is max and min is min. Zero will always be no sound and max will always be as loud as the unit can go. Over simplified, but basically correct.