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Cantilope

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Posts posted by Cantilope

    Keeping the Boxes?

    in General Klipsch Info

    Posted

    If there is a dry space off the ground Then keep them...covered with plastic to keep the dust/fly splat off of them..and fresh. Set them off to the side or overhead (best) till sometime later. Hang them from the rafters or put them on top of the rafters...keep the manuals too.

    It reflects well on the seller if he has the original boxes and manuals in case someone sells in the future.

    Just my .02.

    JUBILEES huh? How do they compare to your prior speakers? NICE acquisition!!! !!! !!! !!!

     

    Sounds like I will try and keep them.  Even broken down they are still a lot of cardboard

     

    As far as how they sound... better than any speaker I have ever heard.  

    • Like 1

    Keeping the Boxes?

    in General Klipsch Info

    Posted

    Got some big boxes in the mail the past week.  Inside was a brand new set of Walnut Jubilees.

     

    The boxes are large, typically I do keep my boxes but these are very large and seem less custom fit.  Do you think I would be making a mistake by getting rid of them?

     

    Thanks,

    Joe

     

     

    • Like 1

    Blown (2) K-77 diaphragms while Tri-amped

    in Technical/Restorations

    Posted

    It has been a few weeks, things are still working well. I cannot hear any affect this setting has created sound wise.  I think I will give Chris the solved button.  Thank You.  I would take some suggestions on which filter cap to use to block the DC, I don't see how this extra bit protection could be a negative.

     

    I do want to say now that it is back together, and I have my freshly re-freshened McIntosh C32 back in as a pre, I cannot get over how amazing this sounds.  I have been seeking audio bliss for many, many years and feel like I am right there, with the stock Belle being my limitation.  I have had my friends and my father over and they all are amazed with what it has done to the quality of the sound.  From Deadmau5 to Gloria Estefan, tri-amping, and QUALITY digital xovers are the way go.

     

    I hope this thread has not discouraged anyone from trying this.  Do it! Do it! I will never look back, I just need 3 more of these xillicas...

    • Like 1

    Blown (2) K-77 diaphragms while Tri-amped

    in Technical/Restorations

    Posted

    My first thought is that if it is frying the driver within 15 seconds, then double check and triple check that no DC is getting through. Are you confident that you are using the Volts DC and not Volts AC setting on your VOM? (I mean no disrespect, but others have made this error). Even if the crossover point is at 4kHz and not 6 kHz, it should not be causing damage so quickly. 

     

    No disrespect taken... no worries.  When I set it to ACV I get a voltage reading that raises and lowers with signal around 1V at 75% volume.  When I set it to DCV, I get a reading of -0.032V that does not change.

     

    However, the crossover itself has an "output limiter" - see page 17 of your manual.  Set that to a lower level than default to avoid threshold/attack/limiter levels that could eat the tweeter.

     

    Chris

     

    You'll have to help me with this one.  I see where to enter it, but would have no idea what a safe number would be.

    .

    Blown (2) K-77 diaphragms while Tri-amped

    in Technical/Restorations

    Posted

    Install a fast blow 1 amp fuse in series with the positive input to the crossover and it should protect the tweeter and still maintain plenty of volume. The fuse will blow before the tweeter. I did this many years ago when I had teenagers at home blowing my tweeters and never lost a tweeter again. A lot cheaper replacing a fuse than a tweeter.

     

    I just noticed this 4900 hz. Change it to 6000 hz for sure before installing new diaphragms.

    I happen to have (2) 250V 1 AMP Fast Acting.  Is that voltage OK?  I will add these for sure, I remember blowing my dads advents, to find a blown fuse.  What a relief that was, I should call him and tell him that story, hell love it.

     

    Made the xover change, per your recommendation, that seems like it could be the problem as it echos NPs thoughts.

    Blown (2) K-77 diaphragms while Tri-amped

    in Technical/Restorations

    Posted

    What I am running:

     

    1978 Klipsch Belles w/ all original horns and drivers, Tri-amped

    Xillica 4080 DSP – (HP Xover set at 4900 HZ LW 24 dB) for the Tweeters

    (2) First Watt M2s – A left and right feeding the MF and HF.

    McIntosh C32 Pre

    McIntosh MC2205 – Feeding the bass bin

    Gain Delta set via volt/ohm meter, attenuation on the McIntosh knobs.

     

    I have been on the exploratory path of digital xovers.  I have in the last few months added the M2s and the Digital xover into the system and went the tri-amp route on the Belles.  I am very happy with the sound and feel I have it at about 80% there although I am fine tuning.  But I have run into a problem that I can’t seem to solve.

     

    This past weekend I discovered that my Right Tweeter was no longer working and I discovered it to be an open circuit.  The diaphragms I run are replacements that are less than a year old from Simply Speaker.  So I ordered up a replacement and on Tuesday replaced the diaphragm.  This diaphragm lasted about 15 seconds under mild use and stopped working while I was testing.  I shut it down and proceeded to check the ohms and saw a funny thing, it was floating around, not a direct short nor was it an open circuit.  I checked all the wiring to the xover and the freq slopes and this took about 10 minutes.  Upon one last check with the OHM meter the diaphragm measured OK so I plugged it and it worked for a about 10 seconds then I heard a crackle and now it measures completely open.  I suspect I have overpowered or overheated it.  But have no idea how or why.  After it blew it the second time I tested the outputs of the M2 and was at less than .5Vrms which is under 1 Watt per the M2 sensitivity specs.  My theory is that I overheated it to the point it seized the first time and after it cooled it was OK until I tried it again this time going all the way with it.

     

    I contacted Nelson Pass, (what a great guy):

    The M2 does not amplify DC, so that is unlikely, but you should check for DC at its output with a voltmeter (I test none).  I assume that you have a capacitor in series with the tweeter in any case.  The M2 also does not amplify very high frequencies, so that’s kind of unlikely also, but there is a possibility that ultrasonic oscillation exists in the system.  I think the most likely source of the problem is that the crossover frequencies or slopes may be too low, sending more energy to the drivers than you think.  (See setting above, this setting is widely used)

     

    One of the things I wanted to try and do was blow the other one… I flipped the system left for right and cannot get the left one to blow using the exact same setup.  Maybe I just had a bad diaphragm?  Or I have one that just won’t blow…  I don’t know.

     

    I do not have a capacitor in series, do I need one?  Is that to protect against the DC?  Would this fix my problem?  Tomorrow I have 2 more diaphragms that will arrive, and I am really thinking of pulling that active and the tri-amping and going back to one amp and a passive.  It has been recommended that I go with a zeener diode, but if that is the only logical solution, I will go back to the passives.

    Although I feel though that the improvement the tri-amping this has made, is not worth giving up on just yet…  Please share your thoughts even if they include "go back to passives".

     

    I have attached an unrelated photo of my system as I try and fix this issue and run some dedicated outlets.

     

    Thanks for your time.

    Joe

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    Building a Belle

    in Technical/Restorations

    Posted

    Update on my Belles, which has morphed into a bit different project, but here is a list of the parts I have compiled and is what I have implement into my Belles which are 3-way tri-amped (4-way if you include the Tuba THT).

     

    Schitt SYS Passive Pre-amp (volume attenuation)

    Xilica XP-4080 DSP active Xover

    (2) First Watt M2 25 Watt amplifiers

    Eminence 15" drivers (after 3 months in service I like the K-33 better)

    TAD 4002 drivers (no horns yet)

     

    I have the Passive Pre-amp feeding the DSP which feeds the M2s.  The pair of M2s run the Mid and Hi and I am using a McIntosh MC2205 for the bassbins.  Out of the DSP I also feed a Crown XLS1000 which powers my Tuba THT.  I have 4 in and 8 out, so if you get a DSP get one with as many outs as you can, all of my outs are already used up.  I am very happy with the sound I have today, although I will still go 2-way, for a stop gap, this is a great place to be.  Time alignment is real and I have heard it and getting that right is a big part of what makes this upgrade worth it.  It sounds amazing, and I have given up on the MiniDSP, don't buy these for this type of use.  They can't hang on the mid and hi and sound horrible compared to the Xilica.  Fine for sub system but that's it.  I can't hear the Xilica at all its a really nice unit and can be accessed through CAT5 in addition to USB and the front panel and gives me the ability to REW.  I had no problems entering the numbers used by other members here using different DSPs like the DX38.

     

    My project may take a significant detour.  The price difference between a K510 and a K402 is not that much and I believe to be worth the extra, so I am very much considering K402s (I already have TADs).  I quick comment on power requirements, after removing the passive xovers from the Belles and going straight from the woofer to the MC2205, I turn it up to the point I think I am going to cause those woofers to pound themselves out of the bassbins, I am hitting a whopping 25 watts on the dial, when I do go 2-way the 25 watt M2s ought to still give me a plenty of bass oomph and I could take the Mac out of the system and simplify the gain structure.

     

    Since this is a build thread... I framed my basement into a 16'x28' room with Rockwool sound deadening insulation and some cool Hue lighting.  I have started on the wiring and still need to sheetrock.  This room is being built for this project and a dedicated listening room.  Which has slowed down this project, but I don't think it is worth chasing my dragon, without a solid room.

    • Like 3

    MiniDSP 10x10HD Processor

    in Garage Sale

    Posted

    I have a MiniDSP 10x10HD I would like to sell.  I purchased it to Bi-amp my Belle's but the Belles are to sensitive (105 db) to work well with the MiniDSP.  However the software was easy to use and it worked very well as a DSP and as a 3-way crossover.  It acts as a DAC and a pre-amp with both digital and analog ins and outs.  Very versatile, I was able to incorporate REW into a vintage McIntosh 2 channel system and was able to adjust for my Tuba THT sub.   Including time delays and crossovers for each output.
     
    I have the box and all of the original contents for $500 and I'll split the shipping with you (CONSUS).  This item was $600 new and took 2 weeks to come from Hong Kong.
     
    Thanks for looking.

     

    https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-10x10-hd

     

     

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    Willing to buy Klipsch Jubilee Speakers anywhere in Texas or surrounding states

    in Garage Sale

    Posted

    I keep threatening to build a belle and try and go after part of that sound with a K510.  I should just plunk down the $6k.  I have my own 16' wide room so the wife could care less...  Will someone twist my arm a bit, I even have about that saved up for my Belle project.  If anyone has some info as to a good dealer I'd appreciate a PM and maybe some info on how best to amp these babies.

    Cornwalls versus KLF 20 ?

    in Technical/Restorations

    Posted

     Tweeter ditto.  The KLFs will have a tighter, maybe more thin bass compared to the Cornwall IIs since the the Cornwall IIs will sound a little more round (hard to explain, maybe more tubby and less tight).  A lot of folks like that type of bass.

     

    That Tweeter diaphragm is a plastic POS and has no right being used in a Klipsch speaker.  That is a pretty big negative to the KLF add that to the possible glue issue and out of the box the KLF needs work.  I do agree with every statement here about the tractrix, but something about an electric guitar or a cymbal crash on the Cornwall that sounds better to me.  I do agree that the mid-horn on the CW is its Achilles heal, but as a whole the CW is a better balanced speaker in my very humble opinion, I'll take round as a good thing and agree that is a good description.

     

    I also believe a LaScala, Belle, Khorn also sound better than the KLF for some of the very same reasons.  The KLF is a very good speaker especially once the glued box and tweeter have been dealt with.

    Building a Belle

    in Technical/Restorations

    Posted

     

    I just picked up a MiniDSP 10x10HD for $700. Hopefully I can get it to do what I need it too.

     

     

    I am sure that will do.

     

    I like the Mini DSP's, but actives give me a head ache. I am not a set it an forget it kind of guy, always tweaking.

     

    I went back to passives after several years with actives, and am much happier.  Back in the single amp camp.

     

    Dave

     

    I really think I am the same... but I must go through this to prove it to myself.  Great reminder though, that I should hold off on any amp purchases...  Plus I have been reading the thread about the guys making the hand made x-overs... that thread confused me right out of a purchase.

     

    Your point is one of the reasons I decided on the Mini.  I have a 5.1 home theater, and my Sunfire pre-amp is a bit long in the tooth.  It has choice-less bass management and I have no room correction.  If my research is correct, if I am unhappy with the DSP as an active crossover, the unit it capable of being reprogrammed and stepping in and fixing that as well.  Seemed like it was a safe bet with multiple uses.  I also picked up the mic and REW.  I am hoping the education I am getting will help me understand this hobby better.  The best advice I need to heed for myself, take a moment and fix the rooms before I get much deeper.  I have one good room and one bad, that difference is bigger than any speaker or amp combo.

     

    Build update:  On Friday I installed Eminence Kappa 15"s into the Belles to see if that's what I want to run (per ClaudeJ advice).  I am very happy with the new sound, it is as he described.  I think I gave up a little bit of the bottom end but the upper end is much punchier.  So I just bumped up the xover to the THT a bit.  It made a perceivable difference in the quality of the mid-bass and was only $110 each.  I am now 100% happy 500 hz and below, Skrillex is unbelievable as is Patrica Barbers Nardis, I think I have the best of both worlds.

    • Like 1

    Building a 2-way Klipsch Belle ... Economically to start?

    in Technical/Restorations

    Posted · Edited by Cantilope

    I think the $750 does not include the driver...

    I am right here with you... I got some cash and need to fix my mid-horn. I definatly want a K510 and I am leaning toward the Ashly Protea 4x8 for a crossover but it doubles the number of channels as a passive would require, and is balanced. I think I want my McIntosh MC2205 on the woofers and something tube on top, maybe a Bob Latino ST120 or drop the SS and get dual ST120s. I do have an appointment next weekend to audition a new pair of Mc275s.

    I dropped in the Eminece Kappa 15"s yesterday into my Belles. Like what they did.

    Coytee, your advice sent me the horn loaded sub direction. I trust your ear. That was very good advice.

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