Dave MacKay
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Posts posted by Dave MacKay
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45 minutes ago, OO1 said:
totally incorrect as far as klipsch networks , Aftermarkets alter the klipsch sound signature
In your opinion, which you haven’t supported with any data.
45 minutes ago, OO1 said:Furthermore , the topic is closed .
Apparently not. If you stop I will.
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1 hour ago, OO1 said:
Your capacitors may be shot in 1 speaker , Can you use a soldering iron ? if yes..... Link ▶️https://jemperformanceaudio.com/capacitor-kits
it is crucial to use klipsch original capacitors to restore your crossovers , otherwise the specs will be off ,
The first statement is correct but the second is just an opinion. Satisfactory capacitors can be had from several sources.
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1 hour ago, OO1 said:
that's not true , klipsch Engineering Staff have discussed the subject more than once , none of the information /proof was ever deleted
How about posting the info?
All I recall was mention of Roy having spent some time having a discussion with JEM. To my knowledge, no specs or special requirements related to how certain caps affect the transfer function were ever disclosed.
If there is any substance to the claim, why can’t we see data to substantiate it?
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56 minutes ago, OO1 said:
dont you know anything about OEM specifications or manufacturing processes , mind you , it's not a secret that manufacturers such as klipsch do not use run of the mill parts , but you seem to think that klipsch go out and buy massively produced parts with general tolerances , and any part out there can be substituted for the Factory part with the same results , well , no , sorry , if that was true , that would be nonsense
Big claims such as you made require some proof. You haven’t provided any, nor has JEM or Klipsch.
I’m sure JEM’s capacitors are very good. Because they’re endorsed by Klipsch they’re also a safe choice. But nowhere has there been any proof to show that they replicate Klipsch specs. Nor has there been any proof that other capacitors don’t.
I enjoy your posts but this baseless cheerleading is tiresome.
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1 hour ago, OO1 said:
it is crucial to only use klipsch original capacitors, otherwise your crossover specs will be off , and NO aftermarkets cannot replicate klipsch specs
Nonsense.
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Try posting this question on the “Klipsch Korner” on Audiokarma.
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Good luck @Chad
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Much improved. Nicely done. 👏
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3 hours ago, Mr. Lou said:
what grit sand paper would you start with and can I use a random orbital on these?
NO! Do not use a powered sander! You’ll sand through the thin veneer in an instant. Sand by hand using a sanding block.
Because the veneer (outside ply) of the plywood is thin, don’t use coarse sandpaper. If it were me, I’d likely use 150 grit sandpaper. Buy the good stuff, not cheap sandpaper.
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Hard to tell from the photo, but, if the stain is persistent after a light sanding, you could try bleaching it with a solution of oxalic acid and water.
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13 hours ago, Peacemaker said:
Any ideas on what to do regarding the finish for someone who doesn’t have wood working or wood finishing skills? Painting black maybe? Are there vinyl wraps that could work and look nice?
As far as the crossovers, do they need to be replaced and/or updated? The tweeters are the DE-120 and I have the originals also.
Any other ideas or suggestions would be welcome.
My La Scalas were in similarly poor shape when I bought them. Now, in my opinion, they look great:
My suggestions would be:
1) Since your cabinets don't look to be damaged (broken corners, loose plys, etc.) you could remove the drivers and crossover and strip the existing finish from cabinets.
- Use bondo or wood filler to address any chips or other damage.
- If, after those repairs, the cabinets look OK you could consider re-staining them.
- If they don't look good enough, you could consider re-veneering ($$) or painting them.
- Duratex is a tough black paint that will give an industrial look. But it's not for everyone. I didn't think that Duratex was appropriate for my room and used satin black brush-on paint from Benjamin Moore for the doghouse.
- If you search this forum you'll see other finishes (e.g., a piano black glossy finish) that others have done.
In my case, I added 3/8" baltic birch plywood to the sides, top, and bottom of the cabinets to address resonances and to provide a smooth surface for new veneer and then re-veneered the cabinets. I used Sapele veneer and Rubio Monocoat "Pure" as a finish. I thought that re-veneering the doghouse was beyond my ability so that I opted to paint it satin black. Although I did the veneering myself, I hired a painter to do the doghouse.
2) Get a can of Rustoleum satin black spray paint. Give the tweeter lens and squawker horn a light sanding and then re-spray them. You will likely find that a fresh coat of paint makes quite a difference in their appearance.
3) If it were me, I would recap the crossovers. Your La Scalas have AA crossovers, which are pretty good. However, caps go bad over time and yours are ~40 years old. It's time to refresh them.
4) Since your tweeters have been replaced with DE120s (which are excellent), I'd look at replacing the tweeter lenses (horns). Since this forum doesn't permit discussion of modifications, you might want to visit the "Klipsch Korner" on the Audiokarma forum for a more open discussion.
5) Replace the gaskets between the squawker drivers and the horns. Replacements are inexpensive and available directly from Klipsch.
6) Replace the gasket (looks like weatherstripping) on the access panel to the woofer. Over time the gasket can deteriorate and turn to goo.
Refurbishing those speakers will be a fun project. Good luck!
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I think your room should work out fine.
It’s your money, but — as pointed out earlier — they don’t come on the market all that often. If, after buying them, you decided you didn’t like them you could likely sell them. And the way prices have been going, you might even make a profit.
Of course, it would be prudent to test them to verify that they’re working. If they are, and the price is good, I’d encourage you to buy them. If you don’t you’ll always wonder about what might have been.
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This forum no longer welcomes posts on such topics. The folks on the “Klipsch Korner” (me included) on Audiokarma would be interested in this.
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2 hours ago, chronometers said:
The panels appear to be held together with glue and wood dowels.
That is new to me too.
Might the cabinets be home built?
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I’ve got a MiniDSP Flex Eight (2 in, 8 out) that I’ll be using with my La Scalas and two subwoofers. I’ve only just acquired it and the necessary amps and haven’t started working on configuring it yet.
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My recommendation would be to knock the panels apart, not to just re-glue and clamp.
You can use a rubber hammer and a block of wood (to protect the panels) when knocking off the sides, top, and bottom. Hopefully the doghouse (the peaked element in the bass bin) is in good shape so that you won’t have to disassemble it.
After you have the sides apart, scrape off as much of the existing glue as you can. New glue doesn’t adhere well to old glue; it wants to adhere to wood.
Roughen the seams with 120 grit sandpaper and than apply new glue. Any good PVA glue (Titebond, Lepages, etc.) should be fine. Clamp the sides in place and use an air nailer with brads to nail them as well. The glue will do the holding; the brads provide reinforcement while the glue cures.
Building a few jigs to help with alignment can only help.
Good luck!
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9 hours ago, Trey Cannon said:
REW can only test SPL at a 2.7sec time laps...You had better be outside or in a VERY big room no to get the ROOM in the curve... This is because it is a ROOM EQ WIZARD...Not a speaker measuring tool.
What tool would you recommend to see any audible difference between autoformers?
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3 hours ago, Deang said:
Kind of confused. You were following Mike’s thread on Audiokarma, and even “liked” the post with the plots.
Was wondering if @KT88 had before/after measurements to show the differences he hears.
Thanks for the reminder about the plots and for posting them. The differences looked to be pretty minor (to my eye) which is why I was curious. I thought that a single chart showing before & after would be clearer.
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5 hours ago, KT88 said:
I'm into day 2 and my first positive impression from yesterday was not a short-changed showstopper just because it's "different". I got a lot more timbre, a great 3D stage and not a single 60's trumpet dissecting my ear.
Have you taken any measurements, e.g., with REW? If so, please share a plot that shows the performance measured with each autoformer.
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Looks fabulous! Congratulations on a lovely job.
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Is it possible that your father (or the first owner) made some mods?
Several things are different from my La Scalas (which date from ‘86, so a dozen years later than yours):
- Is access to the woofer & doghouse from the top (rather than the bottom)? It appears that the network is mounted on (what looks like) an access panel.
- Mine have the access panel on the bottom. The panel is a little smaller than the base so that the speaker appears to float on it.
- My networks were not screwed in; they just sat loose.
- The support for the squawker driver is different. Mine is bent aluminum, not painted.
- Mine don’t have the filler panels partially enclosing the sides of the rear opening.
- There is no evidence of screws being used on the top of my cabinets.
Other members will know more and may be able to provide a definitive answer.
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2 hours ago, Deang said:
What matters is the impedance at the crossover point. This is derived by combining the driver response, in the box, with the network - which is massaged until you get the acoustic response you want.
You will not be able to make any sense out of any of this using any of the online calculators, which don’t account for the reactance between the parts, or the out of network acoustic response.
Thanks.
You're right about not being able to make any sense of this! I've been going through Dickason's Loudspeaker Design Cookbook, but have been finding it hard slogging.
Do you have any suggestions about learning materials/resources?
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On 5/15/2022 at 1:50 PM, mboxler said:
The more I learn about crossovers, the more confused I get. When one refers to a crossover point, is one referring to voltage or SPL?
Since a crossover can only control voltage, I took a wild guess. I tested the voltage across a Khorn K-33E with a 150uf shunt, and it came pretty close to a second order, 400hz filter. The filter had to be underdamped to get to that point, hence the slight bump in voltage before it drops.
Not sure how it would blend with the first order high pass to the squawker, though.
Mike
Like @mboxler, I'm confused too.
I've been trying to understand how the 1st order filters used in the woofer section of the A and AA networks work. The filter consists of just a 2.5 mH inductor. When I calculate the crossover frequency into the K-33E (which is rated at 4 ohms), I get a crossover frequency of 250 Hz, not the 400 Hz that I was expecting.
Even if the K-33E was 8 ohms, the filter would crossover at 510 Hz, not 400 Hz.
I know that driver impedance isn't constant, and that it varies with signal frequency. When I vary the woofer impedance based on a curve that @Trey Cannon posted sometime ago, I find that the crossover frequency varies between 220 Hz and 1210 Hz in the frequency range applicable to the woofer.
I had hoped for a nice clean drop-off starting at a specific frequency, but that doesn't seem to be how the filter works.
i thought that higher impedance = higher crossover frequency = more attenuation = lower SPL but that's not what my REW measurements show.
I must be failing to understand something. What am I missing?
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On 2/26/2023 at 9:56 PM, Dave MacKay said:
Where can the gaskets be purchased? What size & material?
I've answered my own question. I'll post the answer in case it helps others.
I reached out to repairparts.ca (a division of Microland which is a subsidiary of Gentec, Klipsch's Canadian distributor). They were happy to make arrangements to bring the parts in from Klipsch USA.
Because they don't stock the parts locally, it will take about 4 weeks for them to arrive, which was just fine with me. To my surprise, the price was very good --- considerably lower than if I'd purchased from a well-known (but unnamed in this forum) supplier in the USA, even before considering currency exchange, shipping, and customs duty.
The lesson I take from this experience is that --- if you know the Klipsch part number of what you're looking for --- it's worth checking with Klipsch.ca (operated by Gentec) instead of defaulting to a third-party supplier.
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Lascalas - Refinish or veneer?
in General Klipsch Info
Posted
If you plan on veneering them eventually, I’d recommend that you not paint them because you may end up having to strip the paint when it comes time to veneer.
If you insist on painting them, you could use Duratex.