trickson69
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Posts posted by trickson69
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17 hours ago, DirtyErnie said:
Set all speakers to 'Small', Cross-over no lower than 100Hz. Manually adjust speaker levels to taste. I've had strange level issues with different receivers, it just works better to go to the manual setup and set the levels so they're the same and at a good level. Do not adjust distances.
This has proven to work for me.
I got a new Denon the other day the In-Command Series X3700H huge difference, also went to Klipsch web site and picked up some new RP-8000F II Spent a lot I must say.
The new system is a powerhouse.
One thing is for sure if you have your crossovers set wrong you will know it.
Found out 80Hz is no good for my KD-51M lower and it's even worse with the bass pop Dang near blew them with the pop till I figured out WTH was causing it.
Also was having this happen to my center speaker, I was thinking I blew out my new speakers and I did not even turn it up halfway WTH?
Again, Audyssey set them at 40Hz!! WTH?
And again, I corrected all this.
They run great at 100Hz and no longer pop when playing at high volume.
I have a set of RP-8000F II coming soon from Klipsch. Wonder what the Denon will set them at.
Audyssey even with a brand-new system still cannot seem to find that 80Hz crossover setting ever.
If you have speakers and they are "Popping" at high volume playing big bass, then it just might be a crossover setting not set right.
Now there is nothing but pure music to my ears no popping or clipping.
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18 minutes ago, 82 Cornwalls said:
Shaking my head here, you made tradeoffs that you like better and others are wrong?
Many get all of it without compromise, like what you like, but don't look down your nose at others because they want more and are not willing to settle for less.
I know Klipsch owners that have their speakers away from walls and the system is stunningly good.
I was being factious.
You know just kidding around playing.
I know it is hard because it is the internet you cannot hear it.
At any rate I have learned a lot and that is the key. Getting better sound from one's system is the whole point is it not?
I found it and that is thanks in part to the PEOPLE here.
I can say this for sure there is no one size fits all in any one's system set up.
So many things come into play, and you have to keep changing things and willing to change as well. It was hard to break from keeping my speakers strait on in front of me and pointed right at me as well.
But anyway, did not mean to offend was just poking some fun.
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So, I went back to the drawing board tossing out all the Audiophile BS in my head.
I read a bunch listened to a bunch of things and learned a bit along the way.
Not like I have any real knowledge or even any experience at all I just started to do it.
I have found the "Sweet spot" finally and though they look well not right from everything I grew up doing they really do sound EPIC NOW!
I got the stereo imaging down now no matter where you sit or where you turn your head you hear full surround sound.
Even when I have just stereo sound going it sounds like it is everywhere all around you, I have to say I was blow away when this happened to.
Never have I heard this kind of imaging from a simple two-way tower speaker. I am BLOWEN AWAY FOLKS!
Also got them in a corner and only 9" from the wall/ corner.
same with the subwoofers 8-9" from the wall they sound FANOMINAL!
Sometimes audiophiles are just PLAIN WRONG!
Cables, Speaker's placement, the list goes on and on.
I do hope this helps out actual Klipsch speaker owners.
With Klipsch walls are not a curse but a blessing. the reason audiophiles fear walls and corners are because they did not get Klipsch speakers. LOL.
Kind of gives new meaning to the word crossover now does it not?
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What systems are you looking at?
What speakers do you have again?
It depends.
I have my Atmos speakers mounted directly above.
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They are 300w speakers are you planning on pushing more than 300 watts of power through them?
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10 hours ago, 82 Cornwalls said:
Gotta love cherry picked posts.
What?
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10 hours ago, garyrc said:
I am not a Klipsch employee, and never have been, but I've read a great deal of audio since 1959, am a fan, and blissfully live with 9 Klipsch speakers, a wonderful, music loving wife of 47 years, and a music tolerating cat.
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Paul Klipsch recommended trying any speaker pressed into in a corner (this was before the Forte, and the RP series, etc). He stated that it would be likely to increase the bass by 6 dB [compared to out in the room, where crazy "audiophiles" of the era, as mentioned by @Islander, would likely put their speakers]. To the degree that the greatest power demands are often in the bass, corner placement with a 100 watt ["RMS"] per channel amplifier would be equivalent to using a 400 watt per channel amplifier with the speakers out in the room. Initially, Klipsch speakers were designed to sound good in a "typical" living room, but, as you say, all rooms are different. Other manufactures measured in an ordinary anechoic chamber and aimed for [sort of] flat frequency response and tolerable measured distortion levels in such a chamber. But some speakers need a corner, because the corner is part of the design, so Paul Klipsch had an anechoic chamber built with a revolving door "corner" in it so various corner [and non-corner] speakers could be measured when in a corner.
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One of Klipsch's goals was to have both good measurements in his special anechoic chamber, and good sound in home listening rooms. Some articles said he found frequency response much less important than low distortion, especially modulation distortion, which some manufacturers ignore.
- Evidently, Paul felt realistic dynamics to be more important than holding frequency response within +/- 3dB. Originally, he said that to get the "blood stirring" effect of a live symphony orchestra, you need occasional very brief ("instantaneous," probably 1/4 second or less) of 115 dB at your ears, because that's what he measured when recording the Arkansas Symphony. Years later, THX found that instantaneous peaks of 100 dB (110 dB in the bass) is plenty in most home size rooms, with 105 dB (115 dB in the bass) needed in commercial cinemas and concert halls.
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The silly truth about frequency response is that a certain other company's speaker, costing over $100,000, with advertised frequency response of +/- 1 dB, 20 to 20,000Hz, was measured by a magazine at +/- 5 dB (+4/-6dB)by a magazine, in a real room. Not that +/-5 dB is a bad figure at all, or that I trust the magazine, but that the importance of frequency response is so over emphasized that it seduces marketers. Speaker frequency response in the real world with the availability of room treatments, Audyssey, Dirac, Trinnov, and the lovely return of tone controls, should decline, but flat response sells, where it is there or not. See also, Down with Flat! by J. Gordon Holt, Apr 29, 1985 in Stereophile. Some recordings have improved since he wrote that, and, for me, the moderate treble roll-off (- 5 dB at 16K) of something like Audyssey Reference removes his distortion lurking at the top objection in lesser recordings. For wonderful recordings, like the direct-to- disc Crystal Clear recording, Sonic Fireworks, I enjoy Audyssey FLAT, with the bass turned up, as well. Try Fanfare for the Common Man.
- Corner Placement was heavily criticized from time to time, and year after year by Consumer Reports, who said that corner placement produced the loudest, but most uneven, bass. I have never been able to duplicate these results with any speaker. Then Don Davis, the studio designer, wrote a great article for Audio magazine in which he said, "Paul Klipsch's advocacy of corner placement for the past 50 years is still correct. Corner placement has the following advantages: The entire audience-coverage angle is within 90°, polar control is excellent at specular frequencies, and the best low-frequency modal response in acoustically small rooms is obtained."
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There may well be a small caveat. Some stray midrange and treble sound may reach the front and side walls a bit too soon. Putting some absorption on the walls where the off-axis midrange/treble might land before being reflected would probably be helpful.
- I believe Klipsch measures their speakers with grille cloth on. If you have pets [or kids, or unruly party guests] leave the grilles on. Cats will sometimes eat speaker cones, especially if they have a certain (plastic like) smell. I know that acoustically transparent fabric sounds like "clean coal," but I have my center channel behind a faux wall with AT fabric across whole wall, plus an AT projection screen that comes down in front of it. Audyssey Flat fully compensates for this. Audyssey Reference imposes its own curve if I select it. Of course, I have the screen down when running Audyssey. A slight treble control adjustment ought to make up for any filtering by the grille.
I want to thank you so MUCH!
You clearly have opened my eyes and I learned something.
Thank you.
You answered my questions absolutely!
First off, I had my Klipsch RP-6000F speakers in the corner just like you and I was LITTERALLY told I was wrong. I finally know I was correct in the placement, I have them face on now and they sound okay but not like they did there was more bass before now I have to add more sub power. I also was told that my speakers are way too close to the wall 6"- 8" and told I need to move them at least one foot or more. when I do that I loose even more bass and the hyper treble kills my ears.
So, I think I am going to put my speakers back where I originally had them before being convinced, they were too far apart and in corners.
And as for the grill part THANK YOU SO MUCH!
That is very important for me to know.
This is just why I have always loved Klipsch speakers, He took the time to really think about the room to get the true sound to the listener.
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Paul Klipsch recommended trying any speaker pressed into in a corner (this was before the Forte, and the RP series, etc). He stated that it would be likely to increase the bass by 6 dB [compared to out in the room, where crazy "audiophiles" of the era, as mentioned by @Islander, would likely put their speakers]. To the degree that the greatest power demands are often in the bass, corner placement with a 100 watt ["RMS"] per channel amplifier would be equivalent to using a 400 watt per channel amplifier with the speakers out in the room. Initially, Klipsch speakers were designed to sound good in a "typical" living room, but, as you say, all rooms are different. Other manufactures measured in an ordinary anechoic chamber and aimed for [sort of] flat frequency response and tolerable measured distortion levels in such a chamber. But some speakers need a corner, because the corner is part of the design, so Paul Klipsch had an anechoic chamber built with a revolving door "corner" in it so various corner [and non-corner] speakers could be measured when in a corner.
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3 hours ago, Islander said:
Most Klipsch speakers sound their best in a corner, or at least near a wall, so that “audiophile” recommendation of putting your speakers out in the room does not apply here. The only slight exception is the Forte, which has a passive radiator on the back, so it needs to be maybe a foot from the wall behind it.
I agree they do sound great near a wall and in a corner, this kind of tells me two things one that Klipsch designers are designing them around the home user.
and two that audiophiles are mostly looking for that placebo effect to fix their speaker's sound.
8" from the wall and I swear I can push them closer, and they sound fantastic.
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On 10/1/2022 at 2:20 PM, Racer X said:
Believe it is very important to match your speaker size to your room. But everyone has a different idea what is optimum for both.
As for speaker wire, I noticed there is more wire after my crossovers to my 3 ways than before crossover to amps. So I change all wires if when I make a change.
Not really talking about speaker size and room size here.
This is a speaker Research and development question.
I would love to know just what kind of thought really goes into a speaker.
I mean anyone can take an empty room and test crap in.
It's when other things are added to the mix that make things interesting and it is what I believe to be the Achilles heel of all speakers.
I mean we all know about this thing called room correction and all that stuff, right? that is the thing then, they must be making speakers in a vacuum then.
IF not then why all the room treatments and changing of crossovers and cables and sound dampening for speakers and such?
It is almost like all engineers think people have in their home are walls and nothing more. Then we the consumer have to do all the rest of the work to improve the sound of the speaker
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2 hours ago, billybob said:
Lol, yes popcorn for the main event of drama and debate.
Forum slow lately. May want to tag an employee as they do not check every thread looking to answer. Thanks!
Not sure how to do that. I do not know of anyone that is an employee of Klipsch this is why I posted here.
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4 hours ago, SonicSeeker said:
I am not sure how to interpret this.
I hope my questions are not stupid.
Like why is fire hot?
I really want to know if the R&D department takes in variables when they make a speaker for home entertainment.
This is a picture of Moss from the IT crowd eating popcorn.
I do not get it.
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4 hours ago, jjptkd said:
Just a quick glance and run down of what you have I'd say a new sub or pair of subs would likely yield the biggest improvement as your room is pretty big and that sub is small. Changing the mains to the newer 8000 series would give you better timbre match but I'd expect performance to be about the same.
Same you have very nice speakers the sub is the issue IMHO.
Get 2 and or get bigger.
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My question is for the techs that engineer the Klipsch speakers and R&D Question.
When you design the speakers (Drivers as they are called) do you all take in account wall spacing, wires and covers?
What I mean to ask is this. Most people (as you well know) live in small arears, with kids and pets and chairs and sofas and all kinds of crap in the way, Walls on all 3-4 sides.
So, this in mind do you at R&D ever at all use that information when building a speaker?
When you design speakers are you designing them to be place 3-4-5-6 feet from the wall?
If you have a room that is 10'X16' room this is not only impractical but impossible.
All this talk about how far from a wall your speakers should be seems kind of a moot point when speakers can be placed in a wall and ceiling and bookshelf speakers are placed on bookshelves (or some do).
Do you test them in bookshelves?
Then there is the speaker covers.
Do you design the speaker so that it sounds exactly the same when the covers are on?
There has to be some sound loss from the cloth fabric not matter the kind of fabric used there is going to be some frequencies absorbed into that fabric and lost right?
Now for cables or speaker wirers.
Do you design the speakers to be there best using say 12-14AWG speaker wire?
Or are you designing them with costly speaker cables?
There is so much fuss going about on this subject I wanted to see if I could just get some clarity is all.
NOT everyone has a room that is huge and can seat 12 in a theater.
I have a small 10x16 foot room my speakers are 6" from the wall sound great too.
Also, I have looked at millions of speakers in my lifetime and when you really look inside them all the wire they used to connect to the post and the crossover to the speakers I shake my head and laugh at the so-called audiophile and their cables. LOOK inside a speaker box lately?
Thank you for any answers you can give.
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I can say the Reference are nice they're not as nice as the reference premier.
I have not yet listened to the synergy line yet so I cannot comment on them.
I really like Klipsch there looks, and sound are just so clean and clear and well Ellegant.
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A lot to unpack.
First off budget.
Second what's up with the mismatched speakers?
Size room? What is your layout?
Last what are YOU personally looking for?
Is it home entertainment? Home theater? Just a simple sound stage with minimal equipment?
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I use the tripod given I have nothing in the way of any speaker at all.
It's not like the system doesn't work it does I just have to set things to where they "should be" because like I stated.
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Yeah, Einstein said the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. In my case just expecting to hit that 80Hz mark once would have been something, but not ONCE!
I would hope that there is nothing wrong with my system I just got it 2 years ago. And at 165 watts it's not an easy unit to find or replace.
I am thinking that something is wrong with this so-called audyssey calibration stuff.
I heard that it doesn't do feet measurements very well and that if you run the test, you also need to make sure the thing is set to meters not feet.
WOW seems there are tons of HOLES in the calibration crap.
So far it has 2 strikes against it.
Actually 3 as it never never never never never NEVER sets the mains or FRONT speakers to small even when I "Change it ", it still resets it to large every time I run the Audyssey calibration.
How hard can it be to run the thing? You plug in the mic and then just follow the on-screen instructions not hard at all.
Not sure that I personally am doing something wrong, or my system is bad what?
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3 hours ago, Zen Traveler said:
I have not progressed to Atmos yet but does anyone else crossover these speakers that low? I was wondering if it's an "atmos" thing or just wrong. 🤔
I just don't know.
I manually set them to 80Hz fronts, 90Hz center, 80Hz surround and 40Hz top middle.
This sounds as good as I can hear it sound.
But the stuff I listed comes up about 79% of the time.
The crossover settings have never ever hit 80Hz ever in any of the millions of audyssey calibration runs I have done. NEVER.
You know what?
It seems to me all this talk about 80Hz for a crossover setting is bullcrap! I cannot figure this out at all in my brain.
Audyssey is a CALIBRATION tool built into the AVR and they even give you a MIC. (I do not care about how calibrated that is or any crap) This is a tool that is built in and is to flawlessly calibrate one's system, so tell me this, if 80Hz is the absolute recommended setting why the F does it NOT land on that mark every time? Why does it not only miss the mark, but it blows past it.
I have literally lost my mind.
The so-called audiophile experts all say that you have to set your speakers' crossover to 80Hz WTF? if this were the case why is it not hard locked First off and second why does Audyssey always and I MEAN ALWAY miss that magic number 80Hz?
Someone is BS'ing me and I know it NOW!
There is NO way 80Hz is a myth and everyone needs to stop spreading this 80Hz misinformation around.
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14 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:
I don't know what to say/think. Surrounds and Atmos speakers appear to have a lower crossover than I would think...Also, insofar as your subs are concerned, I've read that most people get used to a bloated lower end which really makes them thump, but in turn it can drown out som of the mid frequencies of your other speakers. Dunno, but make sure you're elevating your Audyssey mic with a tripod (or if it came with one). Fwiw, I use Audyssey with an older Denon and don't know what came with yours. Good luck, but I agree something looks wrong but the other trims look okay (comparatively speaking).
Yeah, for some reason EVERY time I run the tests in audyssey it changes the speaker's size to large.
I re-ran the tests again got the sub to read at -10dB now and I can crank-up my system now. past -20dB.
It still uses the crossover settings no matter what I have to manually change them.
Is audyssey reliable?
I like a lot of bass the kind that thumps.
So, after turning the gain to only 3 lines in the indicator (Both subs same setting on gain) the sub reads at -10dB I am leaving it like that. I want more bass, so I just turned the gain back to the middle ("Halfway up")
I re-set the speakers to small and set all crossovers to 80Hz the Klipsch have crossovers so there should be little issues there.
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32 minutes ago, wuzzzer said:
No one’s talking about using two centers. 🤷🏻♂️Ok okay. It just sounded like that.
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36 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:
I'm not sure how to answer your questions but some of that looks kinda peculiar if you ran Audyssey as directed. The first thing I would do is set your front speakers to small and raise the crossovers to at least 80 Hz with the exception of possibly your mains to 60 Hz. Second, if your sub trim level is -12 it appears you need to lower the volume at the sub itself (you are reaching the max there).
Yeah I did re-set the speakers back to small.
You have to do this after the Audyssey does it's tests.
I just do not understand why my subs always do this.
I have to turn the gain to almost off only get one tick up on the gain and it still does this.
Maybe I need a NEW AVR?
Getting kind of sick of this crap with Denon.
I'm going to have to re-run the tests lowing the gain on my subwoofers to almost nothing.
I will give it another go.
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How are you adding a second center to the AVR?
There is only one input.
can I add a second center? If so how?
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I re-ran the audyssey calibration test on my Denon AVR-S750Hsince I added new speakers and I have some questions.
The system set the crossovers on the speakers to the following:
Front 40Hz, Center 60Hz, Surround 40Hz, Top middle 40Hz.
It also reset the front speakers to large.
Then there are the levels settings and I wonder why they are all negative dB.
Front L. -4.5dB
Center . -8.0dB
Front R . -4.0dB
Surround R. -10.5dB
Surround L. -7.0dB
Top Middle R -0.0dB
Top Middle L -1.0dB
Subwoofer -12dB
There is a secondary input channel level also that the Denon set's all to 0.0dB till you manually turn them up.
Why all the volume control for each channel? and how come now my front speakers are not as front and center as the surrounds while in multi-Channel stereo?
how can I get a more balanced sound from my front speakers while in muti channel?
Can I turn the levels up and if I do how far do you suggest?
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Let me start off with a WOW what an AMAZING speaker!
I was looking for a particular front ported speaker for my Atmos setup,
The KD-51M front ported speaker is the perfect fit for my needs.
I did not nor do I want to carve up my home to install speakers in wall or ceiling.
I did not do any real research on them as there is not much as for reviews on them.
My son told me about them when I was looking at the Jamo (same one too LOL)
Went to Klipsch home page and ordered them through Klipsch too.
I got a GREAT deal IMHO $162.00 shipped!
So, what do I think of them?
I actually am really shocked. They sound far better than I expected.
From some of the carp I was able to glaze off the net about them most love them and some say they need a new crossover, Wire and posts along with some more internal padding.
Anyone listening to people on YouTube about Klipsch speakers should take EVERYTHING you hear and read with a grain, and I MEAN A GRAIN of Salt.
Now I am being a bit unconventional about my Atmos speakers and I know some would say you need some special Atmos speaker, to all of them I say BS!
There is no special designed Atmos speaks that are needed that is pure BS. IMHO nothing more.
The cleanness and depth of sound is now 100% complete I now have one BAD ASZ Home Theater.
Only thing I need now is 4 more and a 11 channel AVR system LOL.
But seriously the KD-51M is one of the best sounding 2-way speakers I have ever listened to.
Just an amazing sounding speaker Klipsch are such amazing sounding speakers it's funny all the haters out there calling them entry level audiophile LOL!
Anyone looking for an amazing sound in a bookshelf speak should look at these High-end audiophile quality speakers.
Klipsch are HIGH-END Speakers and ANYONE saying they are not; well, they are plain WRONG.
Just look at them sweet looking speakers!
Lets see YOUR Home Theater:
in Home Theater
Posted
No, harder to climb around up there. Not a ton of room as well ceiling is pitched, and I am too old.