DTLongo

Please do a search on the Klipsch 2-Channel, Home Theater, and Upgrades and Mods forums on my love- and not-so-love-saga with my 2003 Klipschorns. In still-absolutely mint condition and with ALK-top of the line crossover upgrades, they are perhaps the best such pair of speakers in the world today. Without going into detail here on those numerous past postings, you will find in them as objective an account as exists anywhere on Klipshcorn pros and cons. When everything clicks including amplification, migawd they are awesome. Anything less and they collapse in the bass. The solution (for me): Klipschorns together with high-quality powered subwoofers. The best of both worlds though there's no way that you can get around the fact that the big Khorns still need their good corners. At lower volumes they never disappoint. But the rubber really hits the road when you occasionally want to crank them LOUD and they come through still with absolutely clear, unstrained fidelity. They're the nearest thing to full-bore live symphonic performance I've EVER heard after 55+ years of playing with this hobby starting around age 13 (I'm turning 69 y.o.).

And another.

I couldn't resist. Rodrigues still rules.

For the last four years I have been making archival videos of a local symphony orchestra on whose Board of Directors I am (www.midatlanticsymphony.org). My camcorder is a standard-def, 30 mb. hard-disc Sony DCR-SR100. It produces VHS-quality video and with its own microphone pretty good audio for archival purposes albeit with some backgrond noise, hard-disc mechanism background noise I think. Question: if I upgrade to one of the newer high-def comcorders, one perhaps with flash storage, would those videos be compatible with and playable on standard-DVD equipment? Also, can they produce better (quieter) full-range stereo audio with their own microphone? Thank you in advance for your feedbacks.

Congrats on your new Klipschorns and welcome to the Khorn priesthood. Based on my own experience, a couple of things to anticipate. Yes, they will play very very loud with no strain. But Khorns are very amplifer-sensitive. They can sound anemic in the bass with one amp and great with another. Especially for home theater, don't rule out wanting to use them with one or preferably two good subwoofers. Also, again in my experience, I found Klipschorns "wasted" on home theater. One's eyes and ears tend to follow the action on the screen and the sound becomes secondary, albeit exciting for booms, gunshots, explosions and the like. My Khorns are now in a basically audio-only setup (see signature) where they can really shine in their own right. Have fun and plse. give us your impressions of your new babies after you get them set up.

"I truly did believe that the right application of reproductive materials and proper instrumentation will result in a faithful and accurate replication of music. Well, it appears I am truly an AS*, for it is now clear that I was completely wrong and it can only be concluded perfection in musical reproduction is little more than a chimera." Dear Herr Professor Thebes: Wilkommen in der aktuel Welt. Welcome to the real world [8-|]. The wondrous thing about modern electronics and even Klipsch Heritage is that they can come fairly close to approximating the real thing. "Approximating" is the key word. My forte is symphonic and I have close experience with pure unamplified symphonic performances versus superb reproduction through even ALK-enhanced Klipschorns. Result: close but no cigar! That's just the way it is. Seriously, the real challenge in reproducing live symphonic or acoustic music is that there are just so many infinite variables in the path from transducing the acoustic signal into an electronic one, manipulating and amplifying that, and then re-transducing it via loudspeakers into atmosphere-sound pressure for our ears. Anything through electronic guitars, keyboards and other such is already degraded (in the pure sense) even if it can sound great. I suspect Nirvana will always elude. But dang, we can come darn close if everything along the chain is just right, so, hey, count our blessings.

"At this point I am happy to report that I am thrilled more than ever with the KHorns." Very glad to hear that you're happier with them. What particular amp-Khorn combo finally did the trick for you?

Trust your ears! It is no venial much less a mortal sin to use tone and/or EQ controls to adjust the sound to your liking. Even with Klipschorns "flat" can sound pretty listless at low to medium volumes because of the way the low- and high-frequencies fall off to our human ears at less than quite high volumes. Plus, we all do hear differently depending on age, genetics and other uncontrollable factors. Have fun, don't overdo it on the bass and treble and, again, trust your own ears.

"These things are definitely not for the inexperienced or faint of heart, kind of like giving a Hayabusa to a sixteen year old. The mighty KHorns will simply not tolerate dirty vinyl or poor recordings. They are very picky about just what electronics they will mate with." Boy I can really relate to that! Around 2004 when my Klipschorns were new GaryMD came to my previous home in Ocean Pines MD and hooked up a little 10 wpc Fisher tube amp to them and they really soared on pop/rock/popular. Less of a difference on classical but that's in the natrure of things I guess. It turned out that the SS amp I had then was really crappy. I bought and ran them for a while with a Jolida tube amp but that didn't do much for them.. For the present I'm happy with a ca. 1999 Yamaha RX-V2095 receiver bought from my son for $75.00. I guess vintage - SS or tubes - is the way to go with these babies. Still....when you want to crank them up and let them out to run, you gotta believe that like 1950's cars, "you can't beat cubic inches." The Klipschorns can put out just such huge, prodigious sound yet so precisely, without breakup and without strain. Nice. Plus, deep down inside in our reptilian brains there's the atavistic satisfaction of knowing that you've got a pair of world-class speakers that can give a good competitive run against any of even much more expensive esoterica out there. That psychological aspect counts for something too.

Don't forget, if you have other amps/receivers lying around, swap them out and see how they sound respectively through your Klipschorns. You may be surprised at the differences between amps those speakers will show.

It looks like you have a very adequate room for your beautiful new babies. Do you have a sense, unlike other speakers, of their energizing the very air in that room? After you've settled in with them for a while plse. give us your listening impressions. Say, "before and after" impressions of recordings you knew well prior to getting your Khorns. P.S. I have a Belle center. But I've found I need to run the center channel a few db down relative to the mains, otherwise the center image tends to overpower the left-right stereo spread. But even down a few db the center does anchor sound there. This is to say that, if run a few db down, the center sonic quality does not have to be that close a match for the Klipschorns'.

Good show! Looking forward to the pictures.

Keep us posted please including with photos if you can.

I likewise have 7.5 foot ceilings in an approx. 16' x 19' room with the Khorns in good corners across the short end and they sound fine. Although, those powerful speakers would be as happy or happier in a larger room.

Bear in mind that if you acquire a pair of Klipschorns you are getting a set of speakers that can run with any of the allegedly "world's best" speakers costing into the $100K range new if not even more. In that context even brand new Klipschorns are a bargain at their price. Klipschorns are a challenge and they definitely have their quirks and sonic personalities and they're a chore to set up and to settle into with amplification to bring out their best. But - no pun intended - you are buying a legend, heritage, heirloom. Mine were the audiophile purchase of a lifetime and I hope to pass them on to family some day.

The price and the deal sound reasonable especially if the speakers really are mint-ish with no significant scars, scratches or bruises. When you go over to look at them be sure to put your ear close to the top grilles to be sure the squawkers and tweeters are all operating. Then, live with them a while before attempting any mods, ALK crossovers or whatever. Bear in mind that Klipschorns are very amplifier-sensitive so if you have mutliple amps/receivers, swap them out to determine which one sounds fullest and most statisfying to you. Do a search on this forum under my handle for my own Klipschorn saga. Allbests.

Thanks, ClaudeJ1. I did not know about this Audyssey dynamic EQ option before. I did a quick Google and Audyssey sounds very promising. Certainly something to consider if and when I upgrade with a new receiver.

"I'm surprized no one has challenged the idea of seeking more bass at low volume." To remind, the original poster's request was for advice on how to get greater bass at lower volumes in a townhouse without using a subwoofer. Yes, there is the purist view that one should interpose no tone controls or enhancements at all between the original source and speakers so as to realize a flat signal. But that means, because of Fletcher-Munson curve ear characteristics, that at lower volumes the sound will sound very thin indeed. Tone controls, Loudness controls and processing can only do so much. As a practical solution, I still think an inexpensive smaller powered subwoofer is the way to go. The subwoofer need not be turned up much at all to add back subjectively-satisfying bass at lower volumes that would be pleasing to that particular listener. Heck, I use a subwoofer at lower volumes in just that way with my "mighty Klipschorns." The ultimate question is audio purity versus pleasure. If I'm the one laying out the $, yes I want purity and fidelity but pleasure too. Turn up the bass and don't be apologetic about it <g>.

I Googled Maxbass and looked at the video and it does seem to be an intriguing idea. But the one price I saw was 300 British pounds, some $400.00. Kinda pricey, I think. I do suggest that despite your reluctance to use a subwoofer, a powered sub would be a cheaper way for you to go. Why not look for a small 8" or 10" powered sub on Craigslist or some such, pick up one for say $50 and give it a try? A snall cheap sub won't rattle the rafters or your neighbors, but at the low listening levels you're interested in, turning up the sub would introduce the bass that you're now missing. You can turn the sub down or off when you want to listen at louder levels. Worth a try, I should think.

"Your horns are oak, aren't they? My '98's were." Mine are walnut. They and the center Belle are absolutely still mint. No nicks, scars, blemishes. nuttin'. The one time they were moved from my previous house to here they were professionally wrapped, swaddled and cradled like babies. The ALK Trachorn upgrade included replacing the top front panel including the grille cloth and its then-Klipsch badge. I purchased two current Klipsch badges from Indy. The speakers therefore look newer than they actually are. P.S. Forum members in or visiting this area (MD Eastetrn Shore) are welcome to come by to play with the babies if you want. Email me ahead and we can set up a mutually convenient time.

"...I still want to get ahold of an old pioneer SX audio receiver from the 70's to see how it sounds..." The best-sounding amp by far that I've had on my Khorns, before the Yamaha, was a vintage-1990 Pioneer VSX-5700S Pro-Logic receiver. That receiver alone among around a half-dozen that I've tried before the Yamaha, was the only one that, in its straight-stereo mode, would make the Khorns really sing in the bass. In fact, it might even still shade the Yammy in the bass department, though not in the treble. Trouble was, in 2004 I got that big Belle center and the Pioneer with only Pro-Logic could not cut it center-channel wise. But I still have that beloved Pioneer. It's powering the modified JBL subwoofer in my HT.

Those of you who have followed my Klipschorn saga since I got my new 2003 babies (see profile) know that I've railed about how accursedly amplifier-sensitive they are. They can sing or slump depending on the amp. Long story short, courtesy of my son who was moving and needed to sell stuff, for all of $75.00 I recently came in to a Yamaha RX-V2095 home theater receiver that I thought I would give a try for the heck of it. A word of background. Introduced for about $1500.00 new around 1999 (Google it), this is a prehistoric beast by today's standards. It seems to date from just when Dolby Digital was coming in as the next generation from Dolby Pro-Logic. Yet the new terminology hadn't settled down, the Yammy nowhere shows Dolby Digital, rather, something called Dolby Pro-Logic Enhanced. which, I found, is the same thing. The manual that I found online and downloaded is quaint. While well-written English for a Japanese-origin manual, transliterating its terminology into contemporary sense required hours and hours of perusing the manual and trial and error with the receiver. It was like learning to fly all over again. The result? The best audio value-for-money I think I've ever gotten in a lifetime from age 12 of playing with this stuff ! (I'm now 68.) That old amplifier makes the Khorns SING. The first thing I noticed was in the bass area, much fuller and richer. But very shortly other aspects emerged. Especially on symphonic strings, treble details, subtlety and air are THERE that just weren't before, even with the generally highly regarded Outlaw pre-pro and power amp I was using before. The strings have a "sheen" that really puts you closer into the actual concert hall and space. Likewise the orchestra inner voices and interplay between other instruments, woodwinds and such. It is though yet another gauzy veil has been lifted between the speakers and my ears. The FM-radio section, too, is better than anything I've had before. The local NPR classical music station comes in better than ever. I'm sure Al K's crossovers help (see profile below), but the difference with the Yammy is such that it would have come through too on the original stock xovers. For the moment, I'm a happy audio puppy and my son did me a huge favor! Can it still be that Older is Better? To be sure, the RX-V2095 would not cut it today as an A/V receiver, no HDMI switching at all, for instance. But what an AUDIO gem it is.

YES! if you have good corners and plan to keep and listen to them yourself. NO if you plan only to re-sell them. Let someone else buy and enjoy that new set of legendary speakers at that good price. If you do buy and keep them, after living with them for a while consider upgrading to ALK trachorns and crossovers. They really do make a remarkable speaker better. Do a search of my posts for an account of my experience with such.

"The fun will be experimenting; there is no right or wrong; only what is right to your ears......." AMEN to that! Have fun. With my Klipschorns I'm running my Velodyne sub at 70 hz. crossover with its volume knob at about 3.5 to 4 on a scale of 1-10 and with the Khorns set to Large (of course) and the processor sub output set to Plus. Mostly the sub is inaudible but on deep low stuff makes its presence known without at all muddying up the super-clear Klipschorns & Belle. I listen mostly to classical and that's my standard sub setting for such. It's good to be able to crank the Velo when the source material is bass-shy. On pop/rock music I sometimes dial the Velo volume down to almost nil. The Khorns are that good but still benefit from what the Velo adds below 40 hz. P.S. Please post your intial impressions of the RF-83's after you have them, and then again in a couple of weeks or so after you've had time to settle in with them.

That male-voice "chestiness" and low bass guitar that you want are in the 40-70 hz. range, so your speakers that go down to 29 hz. should be adequate. You may want to apply bass boost on your amp or preamp or equalizer, though, depending on how your room works acoustically and how your own ears hear. Don't rule out using a powered subwoofer for the really low stuff below 45 hz. A good sub set at a proper (moderate) level won't muddy up your main speakers at all but will definitely be there when below-40 hz. material requires. I use a subwoofer with Klipschorns!