JoshT

"Let Klipsch and Dynaudio coexist" Beautifully put, TheEar! And why not? I have KLF 20s, a C-7 and S-6s in my living room Multi-channel system, with a Rotel pre-pro and five channel Rotel amp and Paradigm Servo 15 subwoofer, and it sounds absolutely fantastic!! And I have B&W CDM1SEs with a CJ preamp and poweramp and REL subwoofer in my bedroom, and it sounds . . . absolutely fantastic!! The bedroom system is more refined and a bit "sweeter." The living room system is more dynamic and lively, and by far the better bargain. Neither is boring, both are engaging. I love Klipsch products in a way that I don't love B&W or any other speaker brand. I love the history of the company, and its founder PWK, and the philosophy of horns. And, I think the speakers are a great bargain. They have never been a "high end" or "audiophile" speaker, which is part of their charm. (I also have Heresy IIs that sound great but are sitting alone for now without a system). But that does not mean that more costly speakers, like Dynaudio, Thiel, B&W 800 series, etc., are not better in some respects (for a price). I would like to hear these "marvels" that Mr. MSNBC writes about. I doubt I would buy them, and I get the sense he ain't that knowledgeable, and I laughed too when he disclosed that he was using an expensive SE tube amp, but I'm always curious to hear new products. I don't understand why that makes anyone defensive about their Klipsch. Interesting thread, and nice comments from Tom and TheEar at the end. I do like this BB. Josh

Hey Dean and Justin, It's been awhile since I've visited here. Worcester isn't that far away, Dean, but us Bostonians are used to being treated a little better than that, and we don't LIKE Worcester very much! Actually, my grandparents are all from Worcester, but there is no quick and easy way to get "theyah from heeyah." What was Klipsch thinking when they made this brilliant decision? There is a tweeter in Newton, and several in Boston. It used to be so easy. Klipsch has simply hosed itself this time. How stupid to completely remove your best product from such a large metropolitan area. I don't know about the Heritage question, Justin. I haven't seen Heritage speakers demoed anywhere since the late 1980s. Again, I wouldn't replace my KLF 20s, C-7 and S-6s with Reference speakers anyway, and I'm not quite adventuresome enough to go all Heritage right now. My system sounds AWESOME (Sony S7700 DVD/CD, Rotel RSP 1066 processer, NAD 533 with Grado Blue, Creek phonopreamp, 100 x 5 wpc Rotel power amp, and Paradigm Servo 15 subwoofer to fill out the bottom end). But what if I wanted to go to a neighborhood hifi store on a nice sunny Saturday afternoon (instead of being stuck at work in my office) to buy a set of RF-7s????? Hey, maybe I'm pissed off because I'm at work right now? Ciao guys, Josh

I just used the Dealer Locator to see where on can buy either Reference Series Klipsch or Heritage Series Klipsch in the Boston area. Answer -- Nowhere. The closest Reference dealer is 34 miles away in Worcester. The closest Heritage dealer is over 200 miles away. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Luckily I was doing this for curiousity sake, since I am happy with my Legend system and have a couple of used Heresy IIs as well. But what if I had been a potential customer. What a joke!

Great pictures and amazing T.V. One thought -- if your wife allows it, you might want to pull the RF-7s out from the wall a bit. Works wonders for my KLF-20s (especially since I now use a sub for music and HT). Let us know how the RF-7s break in, and how they sound when you move them around a bit.

Interim Update: The service tech from Spearit Sound came by on Friday morning of last week. Two of the four rail fuses were toasted on the MF2250. Once replaced, the KLF 20s sounded absolutely fine. I've played them a lot at quite loud volumes and they sound as wonderful as ever, so they were not damaged. The CJ Premier 17 is now down in Virginia being checked out by CJ, but Spearit could find nothing wrong with it. Hmmmm? Apparently it was the culprit in blowing the power amp's fuses. I must say that my new Rotel pre/pro sounds pretty fantastic as the preamp. Pretty darn close to the CJ (which cost about 3 times as much), though not quite as sweet and full. This is a hobby of subtleties sometimes. I'll let you know what, if anything, CJ finds out about the preamp.

Let me disagree, respectfully, with Tommytutor. I owned KLF10s for a short time and returned them for KLF20s because of what I perceived to be a very weak, yet rough and edgy, midrange. I just don't think the cross over between the woofer and the tweeter works well. The KLF10s do go deeper, but they just seemed to lack something in my opinion. THe KLF 20s sounded much, much better balanced to me. But, you know what they say about opinions . . .

My God. Am I the only person here who is absolutely dumbfounded that Kenratboy used the term "******" in the title of his post and that the moderators have left it in? I only now saw this post, or would have spoken up earlier. All the good discourse that has resulted from this thread is all fine and good, and kudos to HornEd for his thoughtful and tolerant posts (it doesn't hurt that I agree with him), but how can a hate word survive in the title of a post on the Klipsch BB?! Shame on Kenratboy for using that work and on BobG and his colleagues for not removing it from the title. Disgraceful! For the record, I am a Christian, I am heterosexual, I am patriotic, I tend to vote equally Democrat and Republican, and I am not enrolled in a political party. I condemned the PRC for Tianeman Square, I cheered the Reagan/Bush years when the Communist regimes fell in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union, and I even cheered Bill Clinton (gasp) when he sent naval war ships to protect Taiwan against PRC aggression during the 1996 Taiwanese elections. I love the United States and its Pledge of Allegiance, but ever since I was a young boy in the 1970s, I could not understand how "under God" fit in a U.S government-sponsored pledge. But back to my main point -- use of any derogatory slur, whether in reference to a race, nationality, ethnic group, gender or sexual orientation is awful and should be condemned loudly by the posters here. When Senator McCain referred to his Vietnamese captors as "gooks" during his Presidential campaign, he lost my vote. The fact that he defended the use of such term later (with indignation), by insisting that he was referring only to his Communist enslavors and not to any other Asians generally, only made me more angry. I dislike many evil individuals who happen to be minorities, but I would NEVER refer to any of them by a biggoted slur. GRRRRRR!

Hi Guys, Thanks very much for your thoughts. Here is an update: I emailed CJ yesterday, and a service rep, Jeff, already called me today. His initial recommendations for me are as follows: 1. Test the KLF 20s to see if they are in fact blown by hooking them up to the Rotel amp. He suspects they may be fine. 2. Check the rail fuses on the MF2250 power amp, which are customer accessible on the back of the unit. He suspects they have blown and are causing the speakers to sound as though they were blown. 3. Check the 17LS for any harm/malfunction. 4. Figure out what happened to try to avoid a repeat. A service tech from Spearit Sound, my dealer in Brookline, MA, is coming by my apartment tomorrow -- nice service. So I'll see what he finds and report to you. Thanks for everyone's thoughts. I'll keep you posted.

Last night I had my CJ Premier 17LS set on "epl2" (theater loop) and I was watching TV. I then decided to play a CD, so I hit the epl2 botton on the remote which changes the preamp to Source. BOOM!!! -- I heard a very load pop, more like a boom, through my left and right speakers (KLF20s). And when this happened, (1) the volume on the CJ was set at "1" on both channles (the lowest level) and (2) the CD player was on the "stop" setting. The power amp is a CJ MF2250, so I'm sure there is no impedence compatibility issue. I believe my LF20s have been blown. When I try to play a CD, or DVD, or the TV, or an LP, the speakers crackle. Also, the volume is much lower on the Left and Right channels (the gain seems to have decreased radically), so I think the CJ is roached! What could have happened? Could a faulty tube have caused this? There is no way any other component could be implicated, and I'm sure I did nothing wrong. (there was no thunder storm or anything and nothing else in my apartment was affected). I am outraged and don't know what to do. I'll call the dealer now, but would like to know your thoughts. If the CJ's malfunction ruined my speakers, I want the dealer, or CJ, to pay for their repair. Thanks!

As a Blue Blood Bostonian, I feel one lacks pedigree if his or her cloths are not somewhat threadbare and tattered. And anything that is cheap or free is appropriate, no matter the texture, material or color. So, I object only to the COST of the Klipsch gear, not the tackiness! I am also painfully aware of NYC Myopia. Uhg. I lived in Manhattan for two years and occassionally found myself succombing to it. RESIST -- FOR ALL THAT IS HOLY! No offense, but no NY-er is more pretentious then the transplanted Midwesterner. One of my closest friends was a dairy farmer from Indiana turned NYC video artist. He and his Vienna-transplant wife are wonderful, but you'd think they INVENTED New York City the way the dress and act. Of course I'm just a bitter Bostonian, constantly annoyed by being "one-upped" by the Big Apple, so take my rantings with a grain of salt. Sigh . . .

Hey Boa12, I really don't want to engage in a debate over the relative merits of the 20s vs. 30s, since I have not ever heard the 30s and the point of my post was really to say that the 20s, and I'm sure the 30s too, sound really, really amazing with the right electronics. The list price of my preamp is 3 times the list price of the KLF 20s, and yet I don't feel they fall short in anyway. I will say, though, that I had KLF10s for about two weeks and they did go deeper then the KLF20s. They were not as efficient, and I didn't like the way they sounded very much, but the bass was more pronounced. Since I haven't heard to 30s, though, I cannot compare the two. Suffice it to say, the 20s and 30s are gems that sound really nice with the right budget electronics, such as Rotel and NAD, and really shine with higher end electronics too. JoshT

I should also add that I have not heard the KLF30s. From what others have said, I gather that the KLF30s have even greater "slam" and dynamics and efficiency then the KLF20s, but the KLF20s sound more neutral and in fact go deeper in the bass. Again, just what I have heard from others. Even at full-frieght ($1,500), which is what I paid 3 years ago when the speakers were still current models, the KLF20s are a BARGAIN. I think they compare nicely with speakers in the under $5,000 range if properly matched and placed. For the price you have seen, why not just grab them?! Not sure about the finish you describe though. The Legends never were in a cherry finish. They came in Black Satin, Mahogany (beautiful), Light Oak and Medium Oak (which is what I have -- quite a nice golden color).

Hi Dean and Craig, Yes, the KLF20s will certainly do the trick. And with a Scott tube amp they will sound very, very nice I am sure. They are transformed with the CJ tube/ss combo! The S7700 is about 2 years old -- when it came out in 1999 or so it was Sony's flagship DVD player. Their newest DACs are probably better, but the S7700 was well known for having a very nice 2 channel internal DAC when it came out. BobG has sung its praises. Still -- I want something better.

Hello everyone, A couple years back, I posted a question about why Klipsch has not marketed the Legend series speakers as more of a high end speaker. I suppose the answer is pretty clear: Klipsch can sell more speakers through the better mass market shops (e.g., Tweeter) than through local high end shops. But I have always suspected that the Klipsch sound would compete even better with much,much more expensive speakers if matched with the right equipment (notwithstanding the fact that they sound darn good with entry level equipment as well). Well, I believe I have proved my point. I recently have gone a little nutty in bifurcating my living room "Home Theater" system into two systems -- a very nice Home Theater system that kicks @ss for movies and a true high end 2 channel stereo system. So, with that goal, I bought the new Rotel processor to replace an aging Sherwood Newcastle processor. The Rotel is very nice. It has all the slam and bass of the old Sherwood, but sounds much more refined with greater detail. Then I removed the Rotel entirely from the circuit for 2 channel stereo by purchasing a Conrad Johnson Premier 17LS preamp (which has a theater loop for HT). And then I bought a two channel solid state CJ power amp, the MF2250, for stereo, setting aside the Rotel 5 channel amp for use with the center and rear surrounds only (with two available channels if I go 7.1 in the future). SUCCESS! The KLF20s sound absolutely amazing. There is no harshness in the midrange or treble anymore except with the very worst of recording, and the dynamics and bass slam are better than ever. My most skeptical of friends (including those who own Classe/Theil combos) ooh and ah over the sound I get. Intellectually they think I should upgrade my speakers now that they cost about 1/3 as much as the preamp alone, but then the listen and say, "Gee, I dunno, perhaps you SHOULD hold onto these!" Next move -- improve my vinyl rig (a Regal Planar 3 with Grado Silver) and CD player (currently using a Sony SS7700 DVD player as DVD player and CD player). I am open to suggestions on a good CD Player that would fit nicely into this system. I am thinking of something from Cary, but am open to suggestions. The Sony is not bad at all -- it really shines in this system, but I'd love to improve on it. The Rega is quite nice, but I am considering something from VPI or Basis. What do you think? I would love to have an all U.S. system for the 2 channel (though probably couldn't afford to do that for the HT system too). Just think that would be cool.

This is very sad news to hear. It is to PWK's credit that so many people have been affected by him and the company he founded so many years ago. I never met him, but consider him to be a true American hero. I will think of him when I listen to my Heresy IIs and KLF20s.

Thanks Wes. I remember now that you own the PV14L. I really loved the sound other than the hiss/crackle. I suspect that something must be wrong with the unit. I did a little bit of unplugging and plugging with different components, and I'm pretty sure the problem was with the CJ, since the sound persisted. I suspect, regardless of what the dealer says, that the problem is in this particular unit, not inherent in the design. But here is my problem -- I feel like I'm gambling a bit if I get a PV14L from this dealer, because if the hiss persists with a different unit, then they will kill me if I return it. In fact, I could almost see them refusing to sell me one, fearing I'll just return it. I am hesitant to replace stock tubes, as I'm not a DIY-er. How complicated was the process?

On Saturday I borrowed a Conrad Johnson PV14L from my local dealer for a home audition with the following HT system: Rega Planar 3 with Grado Silver Creek mm phono stage Sherwood Newcastle Processor Sony S7700 DVD player (using as CD Player as well as DVD player) Rotel five channel 100 wpc power amp Klipsch KLF20 front main speakers (with C-7 and S-6s for surround sound). My goal in auditioning the CJ preamp was to remove the Shewood Newcastle from the circuit for stereo playback with the turntable and CD player, in order to (A) get a pure analog signal from the turntable and CD Player to the power amp and ( to smooth out the highs and mids a bit for the Klipsch KLF20s. Mission accomplished, plus a whole lot more, but with a HUGE caveat: On the one hand, the sound quality of the system improved by leaps and bounds!! Without losing any detail, and in fact by increasing the detail, the system became wonderfully smooth, just as dynamic, and, for the first time, imaged really, really well. Even the bass sounded stronger and tighter at the same time. Not subtle changes. The Sherwood Newcastle clearly does not do justice to these speakers for music. But on the other hand, OH MY GOD, that CL PV14L was LOUD on the KLF20s. There was an audible hiss, from the tweeter and midrange horns, and you could even hear some crackling (like cooking bacon) if you listened closly. The hiss and crackle were not affected by volume, and the right channel was worse than the left. When I described this to the folks at the dealer, they said it was the unfortunate combination of high compression horns (which they HATE) and tubes (which frankly they don't like very much). I suggested that maybe it was a defect in this particular unit, and they said "no way." I find this very, very, very discouraging, because I really loved everything about that preamp except the hiss and crackle. It has the theater loop and a full function remote which is perfect for me. Am I doomed with these speakers not to be able to use tubes? Is the CJ a loud unit?

Thanks for the link Soundog -- I see the prices are better at Sound City (unless AudioAdvisor has free shipping, in which case it would be about the same). I just realized that the husband of a coworker of mine is a carpenter -- I might see how much he would charge to make some home made stands.

Hey Soundog -- I finally checked out the link to your system. Wow! I was wondering if the Lovan stands you are using with your Heresy IIs are the same as the ones I posted in my earlier post? If not, which ones are they? Do you like them? I have this obsession with finding good stands for the Heresys! Thanks.

Hey Jazman, Thanks for your response too -- looks like we were drafting at the same time, so I had not seen it. I realize I could probably get these done a lot cheaper. I like the idea of basing them on the existing risers, which I have. It's just that the Lovan stands caught my eye as the only commercially available stands out there that would fit the Heresys IIs, so I figured folks would want to know. I would be more inclined to pay the $$$ if I owned brand-new Heresy IIs with a high-end finish, but it seems like a lot of dough for 13 year old birch veneer speakers that I paid $400 for! Still tempting though. That sounds like a bargain for a VTA adjuster. I thought they went for $200 bucks. Good deal. Josh

Thanks guys. I definitely appreciate the input. Here are the reasons I justify thinking about these stands: 1. The only place for these speakers is in my bedroom. There is simply no other home for them in my apartment unless I move to a bigger place, and rent in Boston prohibits that! 2. The bedroom is a decent size room, but the only way I can get the horns to "look over" the edge of the bed is to lift them at least a foot (which is necessary, as I will be listening to them from the bed, but not while seated on the edge). 3. I intend to place them VERY close to the rear wall (though not close to any side walls), which will cause the imaging to suffer somewhat, but will increase the base. Although they are now on the floor of my livingroom, they are way out in the middle, which must cause the bass to suffer too. 4. If push comes to shove I may get a subwoofer anyway (though I would prefer to avoid that). Yeah, those stands are expensive. Still, they are awfully nice. Josh

In one last attempt to avoid having to special order or make my own speaker stands for the Heresy IIs I bought used recently, I checked around on the web and found these on AudioAdvisor: http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=LOJAZZ1800&product_name=Jazz%20Speaker%20Stands%20-%20Pair The specs seem pretty darn close to being right -- certainly better than any other commercial speaker stands I have come accross: The top base is 8" by 9" -- which means a bit less than a 4 inch overhanng on each side an about a 2 inch overhang in front and back (assuming centered). The bottom base is 12" by 12" -- which means a bit less than a 2 inch overhang on the sides and a 1 inch front to back. That is not ideal, but still pretty good, espcially since these are heavy duty steal, only 18 inch tall, and the Heresys aren't too tall or top heavy (the overall hight would be about 39"). They make a 6" high version too, but I don't think that is enough lift for my application. Too bad there is no 12" high versopm, which would be ideal for me. I hate that they cost more than 1/2 what I paid for the speakers, but I have seen nothing approaching these specs commercially before now. What do you think?

My mistake -- I see the SLP88 lists for $2,000, not $3,000. I was confused because I think on the Cary website DH refers to the SLP2002 as a good match with the Rocket88, and the SLP2002 lists for $3,000. So, what's with the SLP88? Anyone know?

Excellent Review -- Thanks Jeff. As someone who is not a DIY-er, I'm a bit concerned about the need to adjust the bias, especially when it sounds like the LEDs indicated the bias was fine. Could you explain a bit the process of determining and then adjusting the bias to someone totally unfamiliar with that process (me)? Also, could you describe your preamp? If I get the Rocket 88 (which I would use for Heresy IIs and B&W CDM1SEs), I will need an appropriate preamp, but I think the one Cary makes and recommends is $3,000, which is more than I would want to spend.

Hey Jazman, I'm still on the fence on the tube amp/pre amp, but am certainly considering the Creek as an interim preamp. I forgot whether I asked this, but would it work with the ASL Wave 8s, or do they need an active preamp? One thing I am seriously considering, separate from the tube set up for the bedroom system with the Heresy IIs, is to get the CJ PV-14L tube preamp for my HT system, since the CJ preamp has a theater loop. I have not home auditioned yet, but I bet the CJ would sound nice with the KLF20s and Rotel power amp. I figure it would warm up the midrange nicely -- also I would get a pure analog signal with my TT and CDP, which I don't get using the Sherwood Newcastle processor. BTW, what cartridge would you use with the Scout and RB300? I'm currently using the Grado Silver on the Rega Planar 3 and, despite the mild hum in the inner grooves, I think it sounds great. Josh