winchester21 Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 I want to start looking for a used set of Klipschorns, Cornwalls or some type of older heritage speakers. I was around these back in the 70s but never could afford a pair myself. I see ads with prices all over the map with various crossover mods and refinishing. I know absolutely nothing about these except that I like the way they sound and I want a pair for a 2 channel setup. Where do I start reading to begin my research on these speakers?? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhendrix Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Hi w-21, You have chosen wisely. [8-|] Please share a bit more about your location, room size and layout, budget, etc. Knowing these things will help us help you in your quest. To fully appreciate the Heritage sound of Klipsch, it is probably best to start with a pair of unmodified, original speakers. It may be OK to have some of the older crossovers "updated" with new capacitors (as apposed to "modified"). The cabinet finish you choose will be a function of personal preference and budget. Doing a search on the forum for Klipschorn or Cornwall will list hundreds of threads containing both nuggets of wisdom and nuggets of sillyness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Good advice from Bill [Y] I agree with the notion to start stock. Also, what kind of electronics are you running right now and what kind of music do you listen to? There are some genres that will sound horrid on the Khorns, but then there are some genres that will sound way better on them. I usually recommend the Cornwalls for the genres the Khorns don't do very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winchester21 Posted December 27, 2008 Author Share Posted December 27, 2008 My listening area is 14 x 24 -9 ft ceiling. I have an existing 7.1 Klipsch reference HT system in the same room. I will be running this as a 2nd zone from my Sony DA4300 ES with a separate power amp- yet to be determined. I have some 250 wpc Carver stuff laying around that I will try initially I will be using an Adcom high end CD player and/or a Technics turntable/vinyl. Most of the program material will be classic rock.I always wanted a set of klipschorns but I am open to suggestions for other models.The Klipschors are the only heritage speakers that I have ever heard I may convert my HT system over to heritage stuff and sell my reference speakers sometime in the future if I can work out space for the center channel. My budget would be around 2500 for the speakers. I have time to look and learn as I am in no hurry-but would commit for the right deal.Thanks in advance. present system-rb81-rb61-rf3-rc64(in transit) definitive PF15 sub-Sony DA3300ES-used as pre amp/ processor only- Carver 250wpc 3 channel amp-BK 4420-HK870- Adcom700- sony bluray 550- 50"panasonic plasma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Here's the production time lines, driver tech data, finishes, serial codes etc., to keep handy when looking at pairs of Heritage for sale. http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/103886/1048788.aspx#1048788 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogkid Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Sounds like you are on the right path, I would look seriously at the Cornwalls for the best combination of sound/availability/price on the used market. That Carver amp will likely sound great BUT 250 watts is complete overkill with the Heritage series... from my experience one of the things that makes the Heritage series so popular even today is thier efficiency - with 250 watts you will barely be able to move the volume knob on your pre-amp. In my opinion (and I only speak for myself so someone else hop in here and speak your mind) you want to be able to run your pre- or receiver at a minimum of 30% for normal listening. AK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesV Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 For $2500 you can get a pair of Cornwalls and have plenty of money to spare. I would agree with what the others have said,start with the stock speaker and upgrade "IF" you like to. I purchased 2 pairs of Cornwalls within the last year and didn't even spend half of what you are looking to spend. Since you have the extra amps I would run those and see what you think of the sounds. I should sound great. James you want to be able to run your pre- or receiver at a minimum of 30% for normal listening. Why is that??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogkid Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Not sure I can simply explain what I am trying to say, except I have run into situations where running a preamp at a very low level with a high-wattage amp resulted in poor sound. If you already have the amps it will do no harm to try them out, and in the end if you are happy with your setup then that is all that matters. It's just as bad - no worse - if you have too little power and have to drive the amp to near or at clipping to get enough volume. The real point I was trying to make is that Heritage series speakers are very efficient, and you don't need gobs of power to make them sing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 You may be surprised by how well the Sony receiver does with K Horns. I think that it is one of Sony's ES Series with a digital amplifier. These mate extremely well with horns. Give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesV Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Not sure I can simply explain what I am trying to say, I am not saying you are wrong but I haven't heard that before. I was really just trying to see what was your thinking behind that. Really no harm... James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Not sure I can simply explain what I am trying to say, except I have run into situations where running a preamp at a very low level with a high-wattage amp resulted in poor sound. If you already have the amps it will do no harm to try them out, and in the end if you are happy with your setup then that is all that matters. It's just as bad - no worse - if you have too little power and have to drive the amp to near or at clipping to get enough volume. The real point I was trying to make is that Heritage series speakers are very efficient, and you don't need gobs of power to make them sing The amplifier in has a lot to do with this. Many here say that they use a McIntosh amp with the needels barely moving and it sounds great. My amps run pure Class A up to 80 wpc before switchign to B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winchester21 Posted December 28, 2008 Author Share Posted December 28, 2008 I have kept open the likelyhood of having to go to a lower powered audiophile type amp to drive the heritage speakers.There is a Mac dealer nearby and I may pay him a visit. I also planto check out the profiles to see what others are using. I know it is difficult to describe sound differences verbally but how would you guys describe the difference between the cornwalls and the klipschorns?. Is is typical for someone to purchase cornwalls and then decide to upgrade to Klipschorns after the fact? Does anyone within driving distance of Charlotte NC have a set of Cornwalls that I could listen to? If so please PM me. Any coments/comparisons relating to the other than Cornwall heritage models compared to the klipschorns would also be appreciated as I have heard only the klipschorns. I greatly appreciate the responses. I have learned a great deal for this thread already. Particulary the link to the specs. THANKS!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Not sure I can simply explain what I am trying to say,I am not saying you are wrong but I haven't heard that before. I was really just trying to see what was your thinking behind that. Really no harm... I wouldn't describe it in the same manner, but gain structure is very important to realizing the full resolution of a system. Basically, your preamp has its own noise floor. A lot of that noise floor is going to be static and not change with the volume knob. If you run a very weak signal through the preamp, then the signal won't be very high above the noise floor....so the new noise floor becomes part of the signal as far as the amplifier is concerned, so it will end up being very audible. In addition to the noise problem, it should be noted that there will almost always be low level distortions from the preamp (although I would include that in the category of noise, it's not perceived in the same manner). To me, this sounds like noise modulated by the signal and is why it shows up as distortion in measurements isntead of the noise floor. Anyways, by running a weak signal through the preamp, you're just increasing the amount of low level distortions - which again will be reproduced perfectly by a perfect amplifier. Switch over to an amplifier with lower gain such that you need to run the preamp harder and you'll probably notice way more "resolving detail" - simply because the preamp is moved out of a major region of distortion. As a side note, most people will observe that the amplifier changed and will then blaim/credit the amplifier for the difference in sound - yet the real source of the problem was the preamp (in this example). Btw, it's not the power handling capabilities of the amplifier that make it a problem, but rather the gain of the amplifier. While its generally the case that higher power amplifiers have higher gain, it is not always the case. A higher power amplifier with lower gain just means you need a preamp that can drive to a higher voltage in order to obtain the full power output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Mike (Dr. Who) is absolutely correct. The pre and main needs to be matched. Quote below from Bruce Rozenblit (Transcendent Sound). "Ideally, the system gain should be set so that maximum desired loudness is obtained at about three-quarter rotation of the volume control. As a general rule, when using speakers with an efficiency of 90 to 95 dB, a system gain of 25 to 30 dB should be satisfactory. Speakers with an efficiency of 80 to 85 dB will require a system gain of 30 to 35 dB. Again, room acoustics and listening habits are important factors. These figures are just general guidelines. The input impedance of power amps can vary from 10k ohms to 100k ohms with most either 50k or 100k. For efficient voltage transfer, the input impedance of the power amp should be at least ten times greater than the output impedance of the preamp. This will result in a signal loss of one dB, which is negligible. The greater the ratio of impedances, the lower the signal loss. Some preamps have output impedances of two or three thousand ohms. When using these products, make sure the selected power amp doesn’t have a low impedance input." (Audio Reality, Rozenblit; p 48) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogkid Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 That sounds like what I was trying to say, except in actual English! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Not sure I can simply explain what I am trying to say, except I have run into situations where running a preamp at a very low level with a high-wattage amp resulted in poor sound. If you already have the amps it will do no harm to try them out, and in the end if you are happy with your setup then that is all that matters. It's just as bad - no worse - if you have too little power and have to drive the amp to near or at clipping to get enough volume. The real point I was trying to make is that Heritage series speakers are very efficient, and you don't need gobs of power to make them sing Good points all, and in plain English! Welcome to the madness Mssr. Analogue! Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dp1954 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 win21. I live in Roanoke, VA about 3 hours from Charlotte. I have klipschorns, cornwalls, lascalas and heresies all running on mac gear. You are more than welcome to come by for a listen. UP 77 to 81 into Roanoke. Up the mountain and its a great trip. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winchester21 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 I am very familiar with that ride. Bought my Porsche from hammersley in Roanoke . Nice ride except for virgina's finest and their radar traps. I am a mac junkie and would love to take a ride up and hear your sutff. I will be looking for a Cayenne when the lease runs out on my tahoe in May so maybe I can stop by durng the same trip. After this Saturday I will have K horns- Lascallas- and Corwalls and 1 mac amp so far, thanks for the invite- consider it a done deal within the next few months.I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dp1954 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 win... 21. Anytime you get ready just let me know and we can turn some tunes. If the weather is nice we can move the lascalas outdoors and enjoy the pool. Ever heard lascalas echo across 3 diff mountains. Quite impressive!! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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