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we_doyle

Heresey I and II mix and match

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Can one use Heresy II midranges in a set of Heresy I's? Would they be
compatable? What would they do to (or for) the sound? I do not think it
would be that hard to make a plate if necessary to allow the Heresy II
midranges to be mounted in the Heresy I cabinets, should that be
necessary. I know that the Heresy I's mount from the rear and the
Heresy II's mount from the front. My question concerns the effect on
the sound that would result. Any insight or experience out there?

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A Heresy midrange consists of a horn and a driver. It might be possible to attach a Heresy II driver to a Heresy I horn, but I can't say for sure. If you were replacing only the driver, the mounting of the horn to the motorboard would not be a factor, since you wouldn't need to change it. I do know that the Heresy II and Heresy III use the same horn, but the III has an upgraded driver.

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we: The H-I used a K-700 metal horn with the K-55 midrange driver. The H-II used a K-701 plastic horn and K-53 driver. You can mount the K-701/K-53 in a H-I cabinet from the rear provided the cabinet clearance between the tweeter slot and the midrange slot in the motorboard have sufficient clearance between them.

In late 1983, H-I's started showing up with the H-II's woofer (K-24), and the K-701/K53 midrange. They also used a type E-2 crossover. The motor board slot clearances were changed to allow the mounting. Earlier motor boards will likely not have sufficient clearance to use the K-53/701 (I have several samples from H-I's and the 1983/84 and 85 H-I board slots clearly have the different spacing)

So... in order to use the K53, you would have to (a) remove the K-55 and horn and see if the K-53 driver and horn will fit. There will only be about 1/16" - 1/8" clearance between the top edge of the woofer and the edge of the plastic horn, and the top edge of the plastic horn and the bottom edge of the tweeter horn lens; and (B) replace or convert the crossover to E2.

If you go that route, you would probably replace the woofers (originally K-22's) with K-24's. The K-24's, according to alot of owners, were not as good as the K-22's. Arguable of course, but from a pragmatic point of view, why replace the K-22 with a K-24 when the K-28 for the H-III is available from Klipsch Parts and not that much more expensive. It is the "new" replacement for the K-22/K-24's anyways, and will work fine with the E2 crossovers.

The effect on the sound is the difference between the early H-I's, the later H-I's (with the H-2 woofer, midrange and type E2), and the H-II's. Accoring to some, the early H-I's sounded better than the final iterations. Some will argue the H-II sounds better than the H-I, some will argue the H-I.

That being said.... I've had quite a number of H pairs over the years. I have found that a properly sealed H-I with new caps in the crossovers sounds very good and for some music, sounds better than comparable H-II's. However.... H-II's sound very good, especially with new caps in the crossovers.

The best sound I have obtained from the H-I's is with the K-28 woofer, K-55/700 horn, Bob Crites' CT-125 tweeter and a modified type E crossover, with the crossover mid/upper pass set at 4500 hz. The K-28 really helps the bass, and the combination of the mid, tweeter and crossover really clear up the mids and uppers, especially in the voice freqs.

The H-II's benefit most from the K-28 woofer and caps. I also replace the driver gaskets on the motor board and the terminal/crssover cup gasket to make sure the cabinet is sealed.

Hope that is of some assistance.

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Can one use Heresy II midranges in a set of Heresy I's? Would they be

compatable? What would they do to (or for) the sound? I do not think it

would be that hard to make a plate if necessary to allow the Heresy II

midranges to be mounted in the Heresy I cabinets, should that be

necessary. I know that the Heresy I's mount from the rear and the

Heresy II's mount from the front. My question concerns the effect on

the sound that would result. Any insight or experience out there?

 

 

There is a adapter for the K-53 so you can screw it on the K-700 horn.This photo is the K-53 on a K-701 horn and the other is the K-53 driver with adapter that will screw on the K-700 horn. Trey got me 2 of these adapters call him at Klipsch.

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There may be a depth issue also guys. The K701 is normally mounted to the FRONT of the baffle board. Mounting it to the rear H style, means you need 3/4 more depth inside the cabinet for the horn/driver to fit. I don't know if it will.

Marshall, do you have the H dimensions internally? I have K701/K52 around here I could measure. Let's see if it would fit.

I could also photograph a K700 and K701 together if that will help clarify things.

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The only H's (assembled...) are Michael's "P's", but hold on just a second...

Just got back from visiting the B-52 at the airport..... Dad's loaded up and on his way back to Little Rock.

Here we go....

The external height is 21 3/8" which can vary as much as 1/16", due to the age and shrinkage of the wood.

The external width is 15 1/2" which can also vary

The external depth is 13 1/8" which can vary, with a number I've run across at 13 3/16").

The inset between the leading edge and the motor board varies also. On earlier models (prior to the introduction of the "H-1.5" using the K-53 mid assembly & K-24 woofer, that inset is ~3/4". The late 83's and 84+ H-I models... the inset was only ~5/8" and the effect was that the grill was closer to the edge in appearance.

Let's use Michael's "P" which has a deeper inset and that's the measurement that can cause an interference fit....

That distance is 3/4"

The thickness of the motor board is 3/4"

The thickness of the rear panel is 1/2"

The length of the K52 driver and the K701 horn (aka the K-53 assembly which I have three pairs out there in the mini-workshop...) is 11 1/8"

So.... Total available inside space would be 13 1/8 minus 3/4" + 3/4" + 1/2" which equals 11 1/8"....

With a speaker gasket seal around the rear panel, you would have about ~1/64" clearance for the K53 asssembly.

Now.... with an 83+ H-I cabinet, you would have 1/8" clearance between the rear panel and the driver.

The adaptor that Kg4 guy mentions was sold as part of the K52 driver assembly itself when ordered separately (Part # 16078). Howver..... in the latest set I got... it was not included. According to HarryO, he advised that he had also obtained a pair for a project and the adaptor, which allows you to screw on the K-52 to the metal K-700 horn, was not included in his pair of 52's.

So... would a K-53 "plastic horn" assembly fit? Yes, if the following conditions are met:

  • The cabinet is a later H-I (83-85); or
  • The cabinet rear panel from a pre-83 H-I is sealed with a gasket to allow just enough..; and
  • The motor board has sufficient clearance between the "slots", as in the photos.

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The best answer would be only 1983+ H-I's - unless you replace the motor board..... Whenever I "restore" a pair for someone, I always do two things.... First, I set the front brace depth at the 1983+ distance; and second, I always use the 1983+ motor board template for a new board. That way the owner can swap these things around with no issues.

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Internal depth would be our critical dimension here.

There looks like considerable diffraction would occur if you put a K701 horn behind a K700 motorboard opening.

I'd advise against this regardless of the physical fit.

Thanks for lining them up Marshall!

M

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Correct, and that diffraction issue was probably why the early H-I's sounded "better". The factory, however, made a large number of "H-1.5's" between 1983 and the last ones in late 1985 (you saw that one H-1 H-BR cabinet I have in the workshop from 1985).

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It looks like I got quite a few answers and a lot of information.

Let me follow up. I have the Heresy I tweeters, woofers, and crossovers. Only the midranges have escaped me. I see that there is a fit issue. So, I have to look at that factor.

Am I going to have to get new crossovers or modify what I have?

My plan would be to only have the midranges from a pair of II's and leave everything else as is. However, is that going to cause me problems because of the crossovers being from a pair of of I's? This would of course assume that I could overcome the fit issues and actually get the midranges from the II's in the boxes.

Also, it looks like I am seeing the possibility of getting horns from a pair of I's and drivers from a pair of II's, or vice versa, and using an adaptor to make the two items attach to each other. Is this the case or am I misreading someone's response?

I would still prefer to find a good pair of Heresy I drivers and horns at a good price. So far, the price I have been willing to pay has just not reached the price that sellers want. I am trying to get this rebuild done for no more than a nice pair of I's would have cost, if not less than the pair would have cost. I doubt now that I am going to do it for less based on what I already have in these H-I's, but it would be nice to keep some kind of a budget intact. I don't want to wind up paying the same price for them as a pair of La Scala's or Klipschorns would bring.

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Awesome response guys... thanks

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I measured my cabinets. I get 10 7/8 inches deep, measuring from the board that the horn mounts to to the inside of the back panel. In other words, an object that was exactly 10 7/8 inches long and mounted flush to the front board would allow the rear board or panel to be put back on the cabinet with NO clearance. It would just fit when the rear board was screwed back on the cabinet. I only measured one cabinet. I presume that both cabinets are the same. Thus, we have just a frog's hair under 10 7/8 inches for the horn and the driver.

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What if I used a pair of the adapters to put Heresy II drivers on Heresy I horns so that they could be mounted from behind. Would that shorten up the horns enough to have them measure under 10 7/8 inches total?

With my setup, if they exceed 10 7/8 inches in length the rear panel is not going to shut.

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