Speaker Placement/Proper Soundstage, Help Please :)

[theclipper]

Hi All,

Some of you may remember some of my past posts. I have been helped a great deal in the past through this forum. I am now feeling pretty satisfied with my all my gear but would really appreciate some help on how to properly place my speakers as well as any cheap tweaks I could do. I provided a link to a photo page that has a few of my set-up. My current gear is; Forte II (upgraded xovers by Dean, also Crites titanium tweeters), Fisher 400 (restored by Craig), Rega P1 (w/Denon DL-160 cart). I'm sure it has been said before but I must say again that Dean does absolutely excellent work. I can't believe how much clearer my speakers now seem to be, I am very happy I decided to go for the upgrade. I had never really even experienced a soundstage before hooking my speakers up to my Fisher. I have the Fisher set on the 8ohm setting. I now am trying to get the proper set-up to maximize my sound and the soundstage, and sweetspot. My speakers are in a room that is about 10' wide and 18' deep. The wall next to the left speaker is mainly windows from ceiling to floor. The wall on the right speaker is not much taller than the speaker and serves as a divider between the family room and kitchen. Also, as you can see in one of the pictures, the wall kind of juts out a bit in front of the speaker. In the back of the room on the right side there is a wood burning stove that sits up about a foot on a bricked platform. I sit on a junky old couch that is about 7'8'' back from the speakers. The speakers are about 16'' off the back wall, while the right one is 19'' off the dividing wall, and the left is about a foot off its side wall. They sit about 5' apart from each other. If anyone could provide any feedback with how I would be best to set these up I would greatly appreciate it. I am willing to move them anywhere as long as I can get some great sound from them! Please let me know if I can provide anymore info that would be helpful.

http://picasaweb.google.com/wolford.chris/SoundSystem?authkey=kjL9iPFnVi8#5289048206581223330

Thanks so much!

-Clipper

[wuzzzer]

Do you know where you got your lighter colored component stand from? What are its dimensions? Thanks!

With your speakers, I would toe them in slightly so that they are aimed toward your main listening position. Experiment with slight to extreme toe-in angles and see what you like best. It looks like you have them separated about as far as they can be from each other considering your room layout.

[HPower]

Hey Peeper,

That is a nice looking system with some great people behind your upgrades.

After looking at you pics, I realize it might be difficult to make it work in your room but if you could find a way to
try your Forte IIs on the long wall it might be worth trying.

I was reasonably happy with the way my system was sounding, but then I tried my speakers on the long wall.
What I thought sounded pretty good on the short wall has been greatly surpassed with the sound on the long wall.

See my thread:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/111977.aspx

Now my imaging is much better, the sound stage is huge.
With the new ratio, the music fills the whole wall and at times it seems to be actually wider than the room.
Now when playing Queen's "Fat Bottom Girls", it seems a little wider than I remembered.[]

My brother was over at Xmas and after listening for a bit, he asked how I was driving the center La Scalla.
I informed him that it was just the 2 corner speakers playing and he couldn't believe it.
The vocals usually play close to centre and then all the accompanying instruments spread out along the rest of the wall
and maybe a bit beyond.

Positioning is the best (and most affordable) upgrade I have come across, try a couple of radical changes and then fine
tune the position after you hear something that is a noticeable change for the better.

[russ69]

For better imaging, put the speakers on the long wall 18 inches out and push the TV as far back as it will go. Or you can treat the side walls.

Thanx, Russ

[theclipper]

Wuzzer,

I'm actually not sure what type of stand that is, its probably just an IKEA model. My roomate let me have it, its a piece of junk, I had to move the record player from it because it wobbles so muuch.

I'd like to try the speakers on the long wall, but I feel like if I did I wouldn't have any room to put the couch back far enough to listen as the room is only 10' wide. I might give it a try tomorrow and see how it sounds though. Any other ideas about possible tweaks/movements I could do? Thanks again guys, I can't tell you how much you have helped me learn about good sound reproductio.[Y]

-Clipper

[theclipper]

**Update**



Hi Everyone,



I have been trying to follow the collective advice as possible. I
wanted to let you know how I have them now. I added new pictures at the
end of the album so you could see the new setup and let me know what
you think.



Anyhow, I tried to follow the Cardas site for the most part. It seems that I finally have the vocal centered for the most part.



I have the right speaker 43.5'' from the rear wall and 29'' from the
side. I have the left speaker 42.5'' from the rear and 26'' from the
side. These measurements are from the side closest the wall and the
very back for the rear measurement. They sit 3' apart, and the couch is
about 6'9'' back from the speakers. I have them pointed directly forward as that seemed better than they did when toed-in.

Any glaring things about this setup you guys might change? To my ears
it sounds pretty good but I'm sure it can be better. Its tough to tell
if I have it right since I have never experienced anything better.



One issue I have noticed is that when I have the reciever turned up to
about 4 you can really begin to hear some tweeter hiss whenever the
record player is on and not playing something or when it is a very
quiet part of the record. Is there anything I can do to quiet this
aside from turning down the receiver?



Well, I think that about does it for now. I really can't thank you
enough for how helpful and generous you have all been to me. My
roomates all say thanks as well as they are reaping the benefits of my
rig!



Thanks,



-Clipper

[russ69]

My that is a small room. Your last set-up looks much better but you need to push the tv back about 3 feet. It's totally blocking the spot you need for clear imaging. Give it a try.

Thanx, Russ

P.S. Nice set-up by the way.

[wuzzzer]

I'd recommend putting them closer to the wall along with your TV. A general rule of thumb is to place a speaker that has rear ports or a rear passive woofer approximately equidistant from the rear walls as the total diameter of the port(s) or passive woofer(s). I'd start by putting them 15" from the back wall and then move them out slightly from there if need be.

[bkrop]

suggestion: try them in the corners angled in to see how they sound,the backs should be closer to the wall

recommendation: get the amp off the carpet! it needs ventelation underneath so air can rise through it and carry off heat!

[theclipper]

Hey Wuzzer,

I tried having them closer to all the walls but I wanted to get the right one far enough towards the center so it was in no way blocked by that little part of my wall that juts out. I may try moving them directly back. Should I move the TV and stand back at all, or is that ok as is?

Also, anyone have any idea on how I could reduce the hiss I'm hearing?

Thanks!

-Clipper

[Dennie]

suggestion: try them in the corners angled in to see how they sound,the backs should be closer to the wall

recommendation: get the amp off the carpet! it needs ventelation underneath so air can rise through it and carry off heat!

I too vote for getting them back into the corners, angled towards the listening position. The larger the soundstage, the better. Also, getting the receiver off the carpet will prolong the life of the receiver.

....and yes! Move the TV back. Can you wall mount it? That would end the balancing act and free up that shelf for your Turntable.

When do you hear the hiss? Records? CD? Always?

Dennie

[wuzzzer]

Hey Wuzzer,

I tried having them closer to all the walls but I wanted to get the right one far enough towards the center so it was in no way blocked by that little part of my wall that juts out. I may try moving them directly back. Should I move the TV and stand back at all, or is that ok as is?

Also, anyone have any idea on how I could reduce the hiss I'm hearing?

I think if you drew an imaginary line from the part of the wall that juts out to the wall behind the speakers and put the right side of the right speaker up against that line, toed them inwards slightly you'll be set. I'd move the TV stand and everything backwards, again starting about 15" from the back wall with the speakers.

As far as the hiss is concerned, you've got a rats nest of wires all crossing over each other behind your TV (Don't worry, I do too). Try and separate power cords, speaker cords and RCA cords. If RCA and power cords have to intersect, do so at a 90 degree angle from each other and try not to have too many wires running parallel to each other. That probably will help, although Klipsch speakers are so efficient they many times will emit a slight hissing sound when your amp/receiver is turned on.

[laager]

I'd stick them back in the corners. Their current position chews up too much valuable living space. Your sound system is supposed to complement your lifestyle, not dominate and dictate how you use your home.

[theclipper]

I might try moving them back a bit while keeping the right one from being obstructed by the small wall. Will it mess up the soundstage if they are not very equal distances from their respective side walls though?

One more thing, I am strongly considering adding some spikes to these speakers to help tighten everything up as well as mainly getting some increased height on the stereo image. I searched the archives and it seems like there is generally a positive reaction to these. I see that there are some cheap ones from parts express. Over on audiokarma there is a great Forte thread where the main guy used some spikes from Star Technologies but they are consideribaly more expensive. Any comments on spikes in general and if this would be a good idea or a dumb one?

Thanks []