rplace Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I have had a bit of a back and forth with this guy, but sort of on the fence right now. Looking for some outside advice. Here is the Basis table http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1235693725&/Basis-1400-Rega-RB300---Cleara I don't have a lot of interest in the cartridge or clamp and have a Music Hall MMF-5 for a partial trade. He has offered me the 1400 table and arm for my MMF + $550. He will keep the cartridge and clamp. BTW, I already have the Basis clamp...not that it really matters in this deal. The pros are he is close enough to drive. I don't have to mess around finding a buyer and packing up my MMF or any selling pitfalls. Finally, it is always cool to try new gear. Not a lot of down side that I can see other then I have always sort of targeted a Basis 2001 or 2500 as my future table. The seller claims to have had a Music Hall MMF-7 and says the 1400 is in another league. His plans for high end vinyl has faded so he feels the MMF-5 is fine for his needs. I know Joe had a 1400 and has since moved on to another table or two. I know a few others here have a 1400. I have heard Larry and Gary's Basis set ups and always impressed, but obviously the 1400 is on the lower scale. Anyone have any direct experiance with both the 1400 and the MMF-5? I also have a origin live silver arm which is basically a hotrodded Rega arm. So there is the potential to put the origin arm on this 1400 and sell the RB300 and off set some of my cash outlay. However, it is really not the money so much as I am wondering if the move from MMF-5 to 1400 will be a big enough change to warrent my effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipbarrett Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Or you could buy a new SL-1200 and Ortofon Pro40s cartridge and have change left over for 3 copies of the St. Martin's boxed set! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nu2toobs Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Or you could buy a new SL-1200 and Ortofon Pro40s cartridge and have change left over for 3 copies of the St. Martin's boxed set! Nothing against the 1200, but the Basis is in a whole different catagory. So $550 plus your table, I'd jump on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmans Robin Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 So $550 plus your table, I'd jump on it. It would probably break if you did that. NOT RECOMMENDED!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Sounds like a good deal Rich. You should be able to recoup your money if you find a 2001 or better down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 You've already got your excellent Basis clamp (can you even use it on what you have now?), and you should be ahead if you can switch over your OL arm, so I think it makes great sense. (I hope someone doesn't have to unload a 2001 or 2500 right after you do it!) Although we didn't get much feedback on it after Joe jumped ship, I've not seen any complaints about the 1400. Sorry I can't help you compare the MM-5 and 1400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 (gargling throat sound) Er, ahum, my dear chap Baron Rplace, I hesitate to intrude on this most edifying thread, but I must raise a delicate subject, the matter of the annual assessment of dues for the Washington, DC Klipsch Heritage Society. Indeed I'm reluctantly forced to remind you that you are seriously in arrears on last years dues, explained away at the time as "a bad turn at the gambling tables". I'm sorry to say but the total, with late fees, comes to $549.00. Please remit posthaste. I'd be most chagrined to send over two of The Twins more notorious siblings, the brothers Buster and Knuckles. Fine gentleman (well, hooligans really) whose patience is far less forgiving than the august members of the Society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 The pros are he is close enough to drive. I don't have to mess around finding a buyer and packing up my MMF or any selling pitfalls. Finally, it is always cool to try new gear. Not a lot of down side that I can see other then I have always sort of targeted a Basis 2001 or 2500 as my future table. If you really want a Basis 2001 or 2500 then that is what you should buy if (and especially if) your budget allows. If you have the budget (or will have) for the table that you want you will dump teh extra cash into the 1400 over time. I really wanted a Rega P25 and made a deal on a P25 with Michelle Tecnoarm and the douchebag backed out after I agreed to his full asking price. I bought a Rega P9 a few weeks later and am very happy. Had I bought the P25 I probably would have put more money upgrading than what the P9 cost. And yes the table did make a big difference in sound but I especially like that I do not want to upgrade this table at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 The pros are he is close enough to drive. I don't have to mess around finding a buyer and packing up my MMF or any selling pitfalls. Finally, it is always cool to try new gear. Not a lot of down side that I can see other then I have always sort of targeted a Basis 2001 or 2500 as my future table. If you really want a Basis 2001 or 2500 then that is what you should buy if (and especially if) your budget allows. If you have the budget (or will have) for the table that you want you will dump teh extra cash into the 1400 over time. I really wanted a Rega P25 and made a deal on a P25 with Michelle Tecnoarm and the douchebag backed out after I agreed to his full asking price. I bought a Rega P9 a few weeks later and am very happy. Had I bought the P25 I probably would have put more money upgrading than what the P9 cost. And yes the table did make a big difference in sound but I especially like that I do not want to upgrade this table at all. The difference here is there are no major upgrade for the 1400. It has the same motor and platter as the 2001. The main difference is the feet. The 2001 has the 4 suspended "pods" while the 1400 has 3 stationary feet. It's not like VPI tables where you can buy 10K worth of upgrades and turn a Scout into a TNT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I have the Basis 1400 (It replaced a Dual). The current cartrige is a Benz high output ("Blue"). The arm is a Graham 1.5. I've had the table for a couple of years and have yet to have even the slightest complaint. I don't even know it's there: it doesn't have any sonic signature I can detect. It does have only soft rubber bumpers on the bottom of the feet for suspension. I have it mounted in a wall rack because my old wooden floors would transmit too much motion and vibration. I use it several times / week. I paid $1800 for the table and arm two or three years ago. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 Guys, thanks for the info and thoughts Phillip and Robin thanks for nothing [] Marty, The check is in the mail. Gary is right the 1400 is pretty much a once and done table, not a lot of upgrading to be done. That said it uses the exact motor and bearing as many of the other multi thousand dollar basis tables. The big difference as Gary pointed out is in the feet or supension. There should be nothing much to do it once you have it and I have always heard great things about the table. Already having the $300 clamp and a hightly modded Rega arm for it I think it might be a nice step up from my Music Hall, which I have been very happy with. I also think I should be able to get a good chunk of my money back should I ever feel the need for a 2500, calibrator base, Vector arm, etc[] I still would like to hear Joe's thoughts after abandoning the 1400 he had. So I sent a counter offer to the seller and we will see where we land. Will be nice if it happens, but not the end of the world if it does not. Thanks again, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 not a lot of upgrading to be done ... The Vector arm is supposed to be a fine upgrade.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 Touche, Larry. Good thinking. Now I have something to spend my money on and it is 100% able to move toward a 2001/2500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 IF the Vector will fit, it would be a significant upgrade indeed. I wasn't even thinking about that but you might want to verify with AJ that it will fit in the 250 cutout. You could certainly keep the Vector if you ever move to the 200_ series and sell the 1400 with the 250 installed. I'm excited for you. I hope it works out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 I know for sure that the Rega, Origin and Vector arm all have the same cut-out. That is why I have never been after a basis table with a Graham or SME arm cut-out. That is also why I bought the Origin arm a while back, knowing it would some day house a Vector.[H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 rich the 1400 is a very good table (not great but very good) the basis 1400 with a rega 300 (stock) and no clamp is worth around 800.00 IMHO, (i sold mine with upgraded rega and clamp for around 1100 if memory serves), the arm is where alot if not most of your sonic gains are going to come from the rega is mediocre at best and the origin i am sorry to say is not a great deal better i have used all of them nd the sonic differences are nuance's at best now leo states he has had a 1400 for a couple years and not been left wanting but check out the arm he is using (graham 1.5, with a benz) now this i can completely beleive as the graham will literally stomp the origin and rega.......(i have ouned a graham as well and it competes with arms costing 2 times as much, sme 4.5, sme 5, jmw 10.5, jmw 12.5 had them all and the graham was right there in the mix), i have heard 2 vecters and they both sounded great as well my suggestion is either look at upgrading your arm along with your table or hold off till you find a good deal on a table / arm combo. I feel you will be left wanting otherwise and not overly impressed with your purchase Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 rich the 1400 is a very good table (not great but very good) ... the arm is where alot if not most of your sonic gains are going to come from the rega is mediocre at best ... now leo states he has had a 1400 for a couple years and not been left wanting but check out the arm he is using (graham 1.5, with a benz) now this i can completely beleive as the graham will literally stomp the origin and rega ... my suggestion is either look at upgrading your arm along with your table or hold off till you find a good deal on a table / arm combo. I feel you will be left wanting otherwise and not overly impressed with your purchase I think what Joe says is essentially true, but I'm not inclined to agree that much that switching the 'table alone will leave you wanting, in the short run anyway. My switch from a Roxsan to a Basis over a decade ago made a dramatic difference in bass response, smoothness, and musicality. Although I'm not familiar with how much difference it would make from your current table, it's all part of a phased plan to change both the arm and table anyway, and your opportunity to do the whole change a few months ago was too much to do at one time as I recall.Each of the 3, 'table arm and cart, are approximately equal in sonic importance and IMO should be approximately of equivalent quality to get best performance and sound. BTW, the Graham is a very good arm that would make that kind of difference, though I like the Vector better in my system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 as you know i have gone the upgrade route to the extreme and back and although i do beleive a good table / platter is a large part of an equation i also found that arm and cart make a larger differance in the amout of sonic improvements i garnered, and of course synergy is the key to the whole set-up, when i say wanting i mean still looking to upgrade and if the sonic signatures between the 2 tables are close the gains will likely be nuance at best, the build of the 2 tables in question are fairly close in style ie... both are solid built and not suspended tables the main differences being the materials used music hall uses mdf and basis using acrylic, i agree your bass will likely improve how much and worth the cash outlay will be up to you and your ears to decide. my opinion is based on my oun experiences and i was left wandering and turntable upgrades are where i found the law of deminishing returns most evident (thats turntables only) arm and cartridge were much better at showing the improvements garnered (or not if you get the synergy wrong) Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 Joe, thanks for the input. Which Origin arm did you have? Mine is a Origin Silver Mark 2. From what I have read the MK 1 to MK 2 improvements were pretty drastic. I am impressed with the Silvers build quality, and since modding my MMF-5 to use the Origin arm I have been happy. I am hoping that the 1400's bearing and motor is where I will see gains over the MMF. Not sure how much I can believe the seller as he wants to move the table, but he claims to have had a MMF-7 in the past and says the 1400 is a big improvement. I think I will move forward with the trade and $$ for the 1400. At the very least I should be able to recoop my money down the road and it is always nice to have new gear to mess with. Probaly the biggest factor in me making the move is that I won't have to find a buyer for my table. Joe, just curious who you sold your 1400 to. This seller is in PA. That would be funny if it was your old table. His name is Mitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 if the sonic signatures between the 2 tables are close the gains will likely be nuance at best, the build of the 2 tables in question are fairly close in style ie... both are solid built and not suspended tables the main differences being the materials used music hall uses mdf and basis using acrylic, i agree your bass will likely improve how much and worth the cash outlay will be up to you and your ears to decide. To clarify: my bass improvement came from a Basis Ovation, a discontinued suspended model that was closer to today's 2001. Sorry, I haven't heard a 1400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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