The "sound" of amps.

[jacksonbart]

The room impacts the sound more than a properly functioning amp.

[richinlr]

To the extent that a preamp or speakers have a "sound," they are inaccurate.

I'm not being a pest about this, but these debates often overlook that fundamental principle. We may like or dislike the sound of these things, but just because it sounds really great doesn't make it accurate.

To achieve accuracy is the nearly insurmountable obstacle that begins with the choice and placement of the microphone(s) and continues all the way to the ear.

Pretty tall order...it's why audio has even more variables and is more fun than chess!

Gawd, I love it.

Dave

Agreed. However, I will also add that a good high current amp simply makes the bass effortless sounding. This is not the same as sounding "different".

[Mallette]

Quoteth Dave: "Audio at least APPROACHES a semblance of reality at times, especially with a big fat joint as an appetizer"

Which leads us to the ultimate question. What came first, the joint, the amp or Dave?

Think about it (but not too hard). Did the creation of the amp lead to the growing of the joint, or was it the growing of the joint that lead some engineer to posit the existence of an amp. Nay let's go farther back. Did said engineers hearing the strumming of a passing minstrel to posit that if he could replicate that music so he could hear it whenever he wanted. However, since the birds were singing that day and drowning out the minstrel, what was needed was a proper device to amplify the minstrel's voice to get rid of those dern singing birds. This is positing the fact that Dave's cat had not been invented yet so he could eat the birds thus providing the minstrels voice without need of attenuation.

Now I'm presuming this all took place a few hundreds years ago and lead to the phrase "The Renaissance". Since they didn't have electricity back then they simply dunked readily available peasants into a lead-lined bath of acid and water after carefully coaching them to exactly replicate the singing of said minstrel. This interaction between acid,lead and peasant led shortly to the invention of the battery, electricity and all sorts of other good stuff.

Now I'm sure Dave was actually involved in all this which makes him much older than we think.

I'm pretty sure this is right, and I'll think about it while having a candybar (don't et me started on where they came from) because my head's spinning pretty good right now.

Not to change the subject, Marty, but where can I get what you are smoking?

Dave

PS - Actually, some of those peasants sounded pretty good. We'd tie three together with their, well, you, up each other. This was the original "Single Ended Triode" and the high end was pretty spectacular.

[BLSamuel]

Quoteth Dave: "Audio at least APPROACHES a semblance of reality at times, especially with a big fat joint as an appetizer"

Which leads us to the ultimate question. What came first, the joint, the amp or Dave?

Think about it (but not too hard). Did the creation of the amp lead to the growing of the joint, or was it the growing of the joint that lead some engineer to posit the existence of an amp. Nay let's go farther back. Did said engineers hearing the strumming of a passing minstrel to posit that if he could replicate that music so he could hear it whenever he wanted. However, since the birds were singing that day and drowning out the minstrel, what was needed was a proper device to amplify the minstrel's voice to get rid of those dern singing birds. This is positing the fact that Dave's cat had not been invented yet so he could eat the birds thus providing the minstrels voice without need of attenuation.

Now I'm presuming this all took place a few hundreds years ago and lead to the phrase "The Renaissance". Since they didn't have electricity back then they simply dunked readily available peasants into a lead-lined bath of acid and water after carefully coaching them to exactly replicate the singing of said minstrel. This interaction between acid,lead and peasant led shortly to the invention of the battery, electricity and all sorts of other good stuff.

Now I'm sure Dave was actually involved in all this which makes him much older than we think.

I'm pretty sure this is right, and I'll think about it while having a candybar (don't et me started on where they came from) because my head's spinning pretty good right now.

Not to change the subject, Marty, but where can I get what you are smoking?

Dave

PS - Actually, some of those peasants sounded pretty good. We'd tie three together with their, well, you, up each other. This was the original "Single Ended Triode" and the high end was pretty spectacular.

Smoking? I think the twins brought him some of his favorite colorful "candies" again and he's trying 'em all, at once.

[Speedball]

And then there was "high current"...another variable. Forgot about that one.

[Don Richard]

Speakers, rooms, amplification equipment, and sources all sound different. The difference between speakers and rooms is much greater than between amplification or digital sources.

[mark1101]

What about the sound of the cables? [6] Maybe you just need to change out your interconnects and speaker wire.

[Coytee]

occasionally dogs will bark at a TV but may be barking more at the sound

Using PA amps on PA speakers, my dogs will almost ALWAYS bark at another dog they hear on my speakers. They might not pay attention to any other kind of sound the speakers make but if a dog barks in a tv show, on a Floyd track (darn them for putting dogs into all their stuff...) all 5 of my dogs will perk up and next thing you know, I've got a barking convention going on in my living room.

For what it's worth, they will NOT bark at the tv if the sound is coming through its speakers.

[Mallette]

occasionally dogs will bark at a TV but may be barking more at the sound

Using PA amps on PA speakers, my dogs will almost ALWAYS bark at another dog they hear on my speakers. They might not pay attention to any other kind of sound the speakers make but if a dog barks in a tv show, on a Floyd track (darn them for putting dogs into all their stuff...) all 5 of my dogs will perk up and next thing you know, I've got a barking convention going on in my living room.

For what it's worth, they will NOT bark at the tv if the sound is coming through its speakers.

You make the point. Dogs or cats will not recognize the picture on ANY TV as anything other than colored lights because they only see "reality" and we humans have learned to see these flat images in sequence as "reality.' OTOH, high quality audio will fool them completely as it reflects reality accurately.

TV has a LONG way to go before it passes Mallette's Cat. My audio system passed quite a few years ago.

Dave

[BEC]

If two amps sound different, one (at least) of them is bad for that application.

Bob Crites

[Guest " "]

and then there's genetic's.........do different race's really all hear, see, and feel the same thing.....half my ancestors raced through the forest either chasing big game or being chased by big game....the other half did the same in cold tundras.

If we all saw the same way...heard the same way..etc wouldn't our languages, music, art, all be the same.

[Mallette]

and then there's genetic's.........do different race's really all hear, see, and feel the same thing.....half my ancestors raced through the forest either chasing big game or being chased by big game....the other half did the same in cold tundras.

If we all saw the same way...heard the same way..etc wouldn't our languages, music, art, all be the same.

None of your ancestors watched HDTV. I'll speculate that if you brought one forward and showed it a picture of a charging saber tooth tiger on a TV, they'd be nervous and fascinated but would probably not go into fight or flight. OTOH, if you played the sound of a hungry cat at about 100db on your system, they'd probably s**t their bearskins.

Dave

[Coytee]

half my ancestors raced through the forest either chasing big game or being chased by big game....the other half did the same in cold tundras.

Since you are like 6' 15" tall, were you the big game chaser or the chase'ee?

[:|]

[Arky]

The most expensive, highest def screen or projector money can buy does not pass Mallette's Cat test. They totally ignore it. Just colored lights. Flat as a pancake. What a joke...

Dave, I love that line.

[Mallette]

What about the sound of the cables? Maybe you just need to change out your interconnects and speaker wire.

Ok, dude, now you're just making trouble. I mean what's next - CD players sound different?

Definitely...from vinyl.

Dave

[Islander]

occasionally dogs will bark at a TV but may be barking more at the sound

Using PA amps on PA speakers, my dogs will almost ALWAYS bark at another dog they hear on my speakers. They might not pay attention to any other kind of sound the speakers make but if a dog barks in a tv show, on a Floyd track (darn them for putting dogs into all their stuff...) all 5 of my dogs will perk up and next thing you know, I've got a barking convention going on in my living room.

For what it's worth, they will NOT bark at the tv if the sound is coming through its speakers.

You make the point. Dogs or cats will not recognize the picture on ANY TV as anything other than colored lights because they only see "reality" and we humans have learned to see these flat images in sequence as "reality.' OTOH, high quality audio will fool them completely as it reflects reality accurately.

TV has a LONG way to go before it passes Mallette's Cat. My audio system passed quite a few years ago.

Maybe your cat is different, but mine certainly could react to the TV. At a pet show years ago, I bought a video called Catnip TV or something like that. It was really basic, without even titles, and consisted of squirrels and pigeons in a park, filmed from around cat eye level. The cat would hear the sound of the birds (with the TV speakers), look at the TV, and be immediately fascinated.

Sometimes I'd put a hassock in front of the TV for him to sit on while he watched the birds and squirrels and he'd growl or make similar "about-to-pounce" sounds. The cat would follow the movements of the creatures on the screen, so it seemed like it was more than just coloured lights to him.

However, I did read about a researcher in Borneo who showed a film to a jungle tribe and it was just moving colours to them, until it was explained to them that it represented people and trees and so on, and then they could see the images as images.

[fenderbender]

Dave....I think if you gave your cat a hit of alleged joint, he may be able to see whats on the TV!

now I think we should try as an experiment, that we put thebes in Schrodingers Box.....but let's not open the lid....he'll have to find his own way out....

[colterphoto1]

my amp has PRL's

[Mallette]

occasionally dogs will bark at a TV but may be barking more at the sound

Using PA amps on PA speakers, my dogs will almost ALWAYS bark at another dog they hear on my speakers. They might not pay attention to any other kind of sound the speakers make but if a dog barks in a tv show, on a Floyd track (darn them for putting dogs into all their stuff...) all 5 of my dogs will perk up and next thing you know, I've got a barking convention going on in my living room.

For what it's worth, they will NOT bark at the tv if the sound is coming through its speakers.

You make the point. Dogs or cats will not recognize the picture on ANY TV as anything other than colored lights because they only see "reality" and we humans have learned to see these flat images in sequence as "reality.' OTOH, high quality audio will fool them completely as it reflects reality accurately.

TV has a LONG way to go before it passes Mallette's Cat. My audio system passed quite a few years ago.

Maybe your cat is different, but mine certainly could react to the TV. At a pet show years ago, I bought a video called Catnip TV or something like that. It was really basic, without even titles, and consisted of squirrels and pigeons in a park, filmed from around cat eye level. The cat would hear the sound of the birds (with the TV speakers), look at the TV, and be immediately fascinated.

Sometimes I'd put a hassock in front of the TV for him to sit on while he watched the birds and squirrels and he'd growl or make similar "about-to-pounce" sounds. The cat would follow the movements of the creatures on the screen, so it seemed like it was more than just coloured lights to him.

However, I did read about a researcher in Borneo who showed a film to a jungle tribe and it was just moving colours to them, until it was explained to them that it represented people and trees and so on, and then they could see the images as images.

The researchers have it right. Play the sounds you are talking about, and put a cartoon on the TV. My theory is your animals will follow the movements of the pretty lights.

Dave

[Mallette]

Dave....I think if you gave your cat a hit of alleged joint, he may be able to see whats on the TV!

now I think we should try as an experiment, that we put thebes in Schrodingers Box.....but let's not open the lid....he'll have to find his own way out....

Let's do it!

Dave