Optimal room size for Klipshcorns and Cornwalls.

[twins0649]

I am the origional buyer of a pair or Cornwalls. Can you suggest an optimum room size and speaker placement for them. I am driving them with a Crown DC-300A amp and IC-150 preamp.

I am considering buying some k-horns, any suggestions for room size and configuration on those?

I am new to the forum.

Thanks for your help.

twins0649

[Bill H.]

Welcome.

It boils down to what you like (or your WAF)............we have folks here with RF 83's in College dorm rooms, or one guy has CW's in a really small room. (no digs intended)................

If it sounds good to you..........go for it. If the speakers take up too much room, well maybe you need something smaler like say the Fortes or Choruses.

Enjoy and post some pictures when you get set up.

[Islander]

Klipsch recommends that a room for Klipschorns have a ceiling not less than 8 1/2 feet high. A rectangular room is better than a square room with any speakers and Klipsch speakers usually sound best when located on the long wall. They can be placed fairly far apart and still produce a good soundstage.

Klipschorns must be placed tight into the corners, since the walls form extensions of the bass horns, so not every room works for Khorns.

[twins0649]

Islander,

Thanks for the information on Klipschorns. Any advice on Cornwall placement?

twins0649

[Islander]

As their name would suggest, Cornwalls can be placed in corners or along walls. Seriously! PWK had a sense of humour, which explains the name of the Heresy speakers, for example.

I've got no personal experience with Cornwalls, so I'll leave the posting of more detailed advice to someone more knowledgeable. They're a popular speaker, so there should be a number of forum members qualified to comment further.

[artto]

Its not so much the room size (although bigger is better to a point with Khorns ~ makes things easier). ITS THE ROOM PROPORTIONS that are important.

[colterphoto1]

what artto said.

[Groomlakearea51]

Ditto.... The "Golden Rule" is also a good starting point. The golden ratio is ~1.6.

[Guest " "]

Ditto.... The "Golden Rule" is also a good starting point. The golden ratio is ~1.6.

So a 9.5ft by 15.2ft area would work (9.5ft X 1.6) better than 9.5ft X 18ft area?

[artto]

Not to be anal about it but the actual ratio for three dimensional spaces with flat parallel surfaces is 1 : 1.26 : 1.59 (H,W,L).

There are also other formulas. Probably the most common is by R. Walker of the BBC. An Excel spreadsheet version of this is available free from Linkwitz Lab.

1.1*(W/H) < (L/H) < 4.5*(W/H)-4
2.5	3.4	6.2

2.5, 3.4 & 6.2 are denominators.

The easiest way to avoid acoustical problems due to room boundaries is to have non-parallel surfaces. If you're not doing new construction or extensive remodeling then using large diffusive polycylindrical panels is the most efficient way to keep the room "live", but also acoustically well damped.

[colterphoto1]

Ditto.... The "Golden Rule" is also a good starting point. The golden ratio is ~1.6.

So a 9.5ft by 15.2ft area would work (9.5ft X 1.6) better than 9.5ft X 18ft area?

Not only do you have the golden ratios, which help give room modes that do not reinforce each other, but in the case of Klipschorns you need enough width for a good sound stage, and enough depth to sit a reasonable (from design standpoint) distance and still be in the 'crosshairs' so to speak.

My experience from listening to others speak of their sound stage is that a 16-20 foot spread sitting .7 to .8 times that distance from the front wall seems to make most folks happy. A 15 foot wide room would need to be 10-12 feet deep for this to occur. In an 18 foot wide room you'd ideally want to be about 12-15 feet from the front wall.

But avoid square/cube rooms or rooms with double/half dimensions like the plague!

[artto]

Ditto.... The "Golden Rule" is also a good starting point. The golden ratio is ~1.6.

So a 9.5ft by 15.2ft area would work (9.5ft X 1.6) better than 9.5ft X 18ft area?

Correct. However you should try and avoid dimensions of 18' (and to a lesser extent, multiples of it.) 18' is the aprox. wavelength of 60Hz. Any electrical hum from speakers or mechanical hum from equipment and lights will be "amplified" by the 18' dimension of the room which results in a "standing wave" at that frequency.

[artto]

Not only do you have the golden ratios, which help give room nodes that do not reinforce each other, but in the case of Klipschorns you need enough width for a good sound stage, and enough depth to sit a reasonable (from design standpoint) distance and still be in the 'crosshairs' so to speak.

Sorry, I must correct you Michael. Everyone keeps making this mistake. It's MODE(S), not NODE. From a physics point of view these are two entirely different things and the terms are not interchangable. [8-|]

[colterphoto1]

yes sorry, I DO know better. Post corrected.

[Guest " "]

"Not only do you have the golden ratios, which help give room nodes that do not reinforce each other, but in the case of Klipschorns you need enough width for a good sound stage, and enough depth to sit a reasonable (from design standpoint) distance and still be in the 'crosshairs' so to speak. "

so as an example...what would be the smallest empty room that would meet the 1.6 ration rule and the "sit depth" concern?

[Groomlakearea51]

Man Cave - Long wall is 16.25 feet where the speakers are; short side walls are 11.25 feet, initial height is 7 feet at the long wall with the speakers, and slopes up to approximately 8.75 feet. Side walls are also "splayed" about 2-3 degrees and are 17.25 feet along that wall where the equipment is located. K-horns have Forte-II's sitting on top to within about 1.5" of the ceiling, and they act like a bass trap. Sound is consistent throughout the room, no "ringing", weird bass heavy or bass absent spots, etc. "Perfect Sweet Spot" is about 2 feet wide, on axis with the Klipschorns, but any other position in the room sounds good and you can still hear the stereo separation. Room sounds very good at any volume, although generally I'm at low volume SPL most of the time.

[Islander]

Correct. However you should try and avoid dimensions of 18' (and to a lesser extent, multiples of it.) 18' is the aprox. wavelength of 60Hz. Any electrical hum from speakers or mechanical hum from equipment and lights will be "amplified" by the 18' dimension of the room which results in a "standing wave" at that frequency.

My listening room is 18' front-to-back (and 19' or 30' wide, depending on whether or not you consider that half of one side wall opens to a hallway and other rooms) and I get a dip at 60Hz, not a peak.

Is my room out of phase and do I need to switch around the connections at the breaker box to fix this? []

[Arky]

So am I screwed with a 18ft x 20ft room with a ceiling that slopes to a 14ft peak?

[Guest " "]

So am I screwed with a 18ft x 20ft room with a ceiling that slopes to a 14ft peak?

well.....how does it sound to you?

[colterphoto1]

So am I screwed with a 18ft x 20ft room with a ceiling that slopes to a 14ft peak?

That room should sound awesome John. Khorns on the 20 foot wall would indicate sitting about 15 feet back from them (sofa or chair pulled out from rear wall a couple of feet). the sloped ceiling with some height really helps too.

How does it sound to you?

M