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Chicago_Pete

Im a vinyl snob...

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Had many good CD players, Ah Tjoeb, Jolida, Krell, etc.
Really wish someone could prove me wrong but to me, a decent vinyl rig will smoke a CD player.
Read somewhere that old ears are offended by shrill sounds, guess I fit into that category nowadays.

Doomed to the ritual.

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 Had many good CD players, Ah Tjoeb, Jolida, Krell, etc.

I've never heard any of those, but I've had quite a few too and the only one I miss is the Rega Planet 2000. Very different from others I've tried, to me it was warm and had great pace and timing. While it did not have the soundstage and detail of the Meridian that later replaced it, it was still the most musical and the closest I've heard to analog. I've also read many great things about Naim cd players, but I've never auditioned one. I think cd players are continuing to evolve and their prices are dropping... so there is hope Pete!

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Boomac talked me into buying his Eastern Electric Minimax Tube CDP. I suppose it's a nice rig for a CDP but its now been moved to my Khorn system where it won't see any action until I need it for outside duty during the summer. My vinyl rigs just sound so much better in every possible way and I have so many great LPs that I just can't justify listening to CDs anymore. Nothing comes close to my Basis rig and the TD 124/Zu 103R at the beach house blows the doors off the Minimax.

I'm with you Pete and a/b'ing is a joke. LPs are much more fun also.

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Heck, I plug in 25.00 portable CD players and get great sound from great CD's. Nothing shrill, just music. If I had a shrill or harsh CD, I'd throw it out. That's why I don't have any. I do the same thing with crappy records.

Just go a SACD recently that is one of the most totally transparent recordings I've ever experienced. Of course, with 'horns and great recordings, they tend to disappear, but there is usually at least a hint of sense of the format, whether digital or analog. However, this multi-channel SACD just creates a sonic holideck of pure music.

It's getting better all the time.

I would certainly say I am a MUSIC snob. I insist on great music, well performed, and engineered with excellence. Frankly, I don't care what it comes on, as no medium can improve caca, and no medium, including 78's, can hide greatness.

Dave

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I would certainly say I am a MUSIC snob. I insist on great music, well performed, and engineered with excellence. Frankly, I don't care what it comes on, as no medium can improve caca, and no medium, including 78's, can hide greatness.

Bravo!

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For the life of me, I don't understand the vinyl resurgence. I guess I'm just lucky to have defective hearing, or to have never had a high-end record playing set-up. CD's sound fine to me. I started selling all my LP's after I bought my first CD player in '84, and have never looked back. I only have a few hundred left and will probably have them to the end because either nobody else wants them, or I can't find replacements on CD, or else they're just weren't that good in the first place!

Oh, how I loathed the snap, crackle and pop of vinyl! Good riddance, I say!!

Having said the above, I have no desire to ignite a flame war over the vinyl/digital divide. If every other audiophile on the planet swears allegience to the wonders of vinyl records, more power to them I say! I just don't get it though. Not for me.

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I've not really ever heard a really serious vinyl setup so I can't really comment other than even with only a DiscWasher cleaning and Zerostat most of my LP's don't sound too terribly noisy. I'm of the school of thought - whatever one likes is what's best for them. I can't afford to dump my LPs and replace with CDs.

And I've got to agree with Gary

LPs are much more fun also.

.

(edit) Maybe due to the hands on extra involvement? Being able to watch the needle hit the spinning groove and sound magically materializes.... while a CD is just put into a black box.... I'm a bit too disorganized now to really find the time to listen to LPs too much but the sound of an LP somehow seems more magical though it's much easier to explain how it works..... Go figure. Maybe with the extra effort of cleaning and turning the LP over we somehow feel we've earned the sound as opposed to (yawn) just shove a disc in a try or queue up some tunes on a sever and that's it.... makes us feel lazy?

Given that a good deep cleaning I've read many times can clean up not only tics and pops but also surface grunge, I've no qualms in believing that an LP can sound as good as CD. Better? I've no idea and maybe I couldn't tell. If it sounds good. It is good.

The last paragraph of Dave Mallett's previous post pretty much sums it up better than I can.

Enjoy the music folks. Compare and debate if you want, but it's the music that matters.

just my 0.02 db

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I would certainly say I am a MUSIC snob. I insist on great music, well performed, and engineered with excellence. Frankly, I don't care what it comes on, as no medium can improve caca, and no medium, including 78's, can hide greatness.

Bravo!

PWK would like that coment I think! Continues to stimulate the discussion.

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>Having said the above, I have no desire to ignite a flame war over the vinyl/digital divide.

REALLY? How could I tell?

While I have digital that is well beyond the bulk of my analog, I have analog that is well beyond the bulk of my digital. I have heard very few reissues, Dark Side of the Moon is the poster child, that approach the originals. Music always seems to sound best played back from an original, even as far back as the teens of the 20th century, which is about as far back as I have the equipment to play. I've not kept a single CD of 78 transfers nor have I been able to figure out what they do to them to make them sound so crappy.

Unless your listening room is totally isolated and has a low mass, high volume AC system you always have noise. Why the occasional transient noise from an LP should run your buzz anymore than the UPS truck rumbling by is beyond me.

About 90% of all the music ever recorded is only available analog. That's a lot more than I wish to do without.

Dave

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Had many good CD players, Ah Tjoeb, Jolida, Krell, etc.
Really wish someone could prove me wrong but to me, a decent vinyl rig will smoke a CD player.
Read somewhere that old ears are offended by shrill sounds, guess I fit into that category nowadays.

Doomed to the ritual.

I'm in total agreement, I haven't listened to a cd for quite some time. In fact, I'm listening to a two eye- Dylan "Nashville Skyline" as I type and I'm in heaven.

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pete if you ever get the chance you have to listen to the electrocompaniet emc 1 it will get you close enough that you will have to ask yourself if it is worth the effort

i know it did for me, and i bought one they are that good and analog sounding

Joe

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SACD...I'm maybe going to loose $750.00 in a coin toss. Many people warned me about a mod for $750.00 that will be a waste of money but I love my Sony CD595 so much I had to take the chance that this man can perform the magaic that some claim he can. Just think I could have put "No Fool" on my graveston with the money. Well I've still got time to become a great recording artist but the "fool" will still have to be omitted unless....???? I promise to give an honest report inasmuchas I am capable.

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I listen to both vinyl and CD. I often use MP3 in my car.

I recently got back into vinyl. I do not plan to ditch my CD player or to refrain from using MP3 in my car. I think that they can all peacefully coexist.

I think that vinyl was or could be as good as CD. I once played (years ago) a Mobile Fidelity record (vinyl) and the CD version and felt like both sounded equally good. It was Steely Dan.

The problem was (and still can be) the inconsistency in vinyl. One recording may be fabulous but your favorite song by your favorite artist on vinyl might be pure crap because your favorite artist had the misfortune of being on a crappy label. There is also the crackling and pops. There is warpage. I remember swearing off vinyl around 1985. I bought my first CD player late in 1984 when there were few titles. Back then, every week one would go out to see if any new CD titles had become available. It was a big deal just to have one new CD title that you actually liked. Records on the other hand back then were plentiful and every new release came out in vinyl.

Getting back to the subject, I almost always had to take new releases back because they were warped so bad that they would not play. We all know that a quality turntable will not play a record that is warped all to hell. It got to be quite annoying. Also, it seemed like they were using recycled vinyl for new releases. Every record seemed noisy. It seemed like they recycled the vinyl and ground up the labels and old dirt when they used it again. But the warping was still probably the worst problem. The straw here that broke my back was a copy of the then brand new Glen Frey album, "The Allnighter." Like everything new I was buying, I got it home and it was warped all to hell. I took it back and promised myself that that was the last vinyl album I would ever buy. That promise lasted many years as I built my CD collection to a size much larger than my vinyl collection ever was.

However, just a few years ago I installed a new Grado cartride in my turntable and began to listen again.

I had forgotten just how much of a hassle vinyl is. There is the need to clean it, to clean the stylus, to change the stylus about once a year, just to name a few things. You do not have the instant music. You have to fiddle with the tonearm to land it just where you want it. If you want to move from one song to another, you have to wait or get up and move the tonearm. You might even have to flip over the record.

However, I do enjoy the experience from time to time. As I said, I have no plans to scrap my CD's and I see a place for the MP3 as well.

Finally, while some vinyl releases sound fabulous, some still sound like crap and can only be saved by the CD release.

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I am just baffled by reading the endless testimonials to how wonderful and magical vinyl LP's sound. It's not that I doubt the writer's sincerity. But I certainly do not get why I can't hear this alledged "magic". I'm not saying that there are no good sounding recordings on LP, but they all have to fight their way through the grunge and the roar and the snap, crackle, pop to ever get to the listener's ears! Maybe I'm just more sensitive to the particular deficiencies of vinyl; especially the noise.

But to all who still love and treasure their vinyl, that's great. I share your passion for the music and I'm glad you are enjoying it however best works for you. But for me, the pristinely quiet background of CD is priceless. I could never enjoy classical music before CD due to the previously mentioned noise. So CD is really the key that unlocked that world for me. And to a lesser extent, the same is true with jazz.

Maybe if I invested in a multi-thousand dollar record playing rig, I would become a born-again vinyl lover, too. But that ain't happening, cuz I ain't looking for anything better than the good ol' CD. I tried SACD and DVD-A, but the market and the makers pulled the rug out from under me. So, at my age, CD is probably gonna be it. Downloads are fine, I suppose, but I prefer the concept of owning the physical Thing the music exists on. I like to be able to hold it and look at it. It's my hard copy. I like pictures and liner notes. I do wish they were a bit bigger, but they are what they are.

To each his own, I say. And I do admire the mechanical designs of many nice 'tables. I just don't choose to seek musical bliss down that particular road anymore, that's all. The digital road is much smoother. But you do have to watch out for the pits.[:D]

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Vinyl? I had a a lot of trouble trying to push the LP into the CD slot. So I gave it up in 1985.

JJK

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Those of you who continually complain about snap crackle & pop obviously have not heard a decent LP on a good setup. That's just absurd.

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>Having said the above, I have no desire to ignite a flame war over the vinyl/digital divide.

I can't hear you for the roaring flames...

Oh, well. Seems we need the underbrush cleared every few months.

Dave

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I being in my mid 20s actually going on 27 grew up in an age coming from cassattes to cds so cds is all i really had except my dads collection of vinyl. As he retired these and the recent discovery of vinyl, I have seem to find a difference in certain recordings. Like someone said i feel some stuff sounds good on vinyl and some doesnt, i injoy going to the couple of record stores around town and shopping for great stuff from The Beatles all the way down to Billie Holiday (which i havent found yet). But i think the hole thing is depending how a band records there album alot of them to day find it cheaper going digital. So i believe it would be hard to come out with a decent analog album. I dont know im not a recording engineer, alls I know is that its alot fo fun having more than one media. If it sounds good play it.

nick

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Those of you who continually complain about snap crackle & pop obviously have not heard a decent LP on a good setup.  That's just absurd.

I'll second that!!!

While I have , And Have had some great cd players........they are relegated to low volume background music duty when company is over or when I want something to take a nap to.......(I have about 6000 CD's as my wife worked for a major distributor) but i collect LP's to listen to even though I have a perfectly good cd .

I'll gladly put up with the occasional pop or tick on my vinyl rig......I just toss bad Lp's, but the good ones are devine!!!!

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I didn't intend this thread to turn into a CD vs. vinyl debate.

I also jumped right into CDs when they hit the scene.
Ironically my first purchases sound the worst.
Hotel California is an example that comes to mind.

Can't argue with the convenience of CDs, take it a step further to itunes and it doesn't get any easier. Fantastic for background listening, parties, etc. Playlists are cool and Im digging that "Genius" function.
My wife has an ipod that she takes on business trips, she thinks its great.

Addressing the comments of grunge, roar, snap, crackle, pop... we are not talking about Grandpa's console with a $6 dollar needle from the corner drug store.
Unless an LP is damaged, I don't get any of that.

To each their own, for me it's vinyl, tubes, and horns.

That said, cheers to all!

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