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McIntosh MC240, MC30 etc Remanufactured Chassis


BE36
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All things being equal, it will have a big effect. But But But, if you can find an MC30 with an original chassis that shines like new, you have found a full set of hen's teeth.

So what you lose in original value, you gain in pit-free chassis. I dont consider replacing a chassis means it is a "clone" any more than re-chroming (and lettering) an original. Others will disagree. Its the iron that would cross that Rubicon.

Peace,

TommyK

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Clarifing my point of the clone label.......

If I build a cornwall cabinet and transfer all the klipsch parts from the old klipsch cabinet...the new end result in my mind is a clone, not an original Klipsch cornwall.....likewise....If I transfer all the old parts from an original amp to a new chasis made by a third party....in my mind, it's also a clone....in both cases...the donor parts came from an original item.

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It would kill the value but then so does rusted pitted chassis. Another variance is the talent of the guy transferring the components. I've done it trying to retain as much originality as possible and it is no small task. Once done other then the tube sockets no longer riveted to the chassis one would be hard pressed to know the chassis was replaced when I'm done.

Craig

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Clarifing my point of the clone label.......

If I build a cornwall cabinet and transfer all the klipsch parts from the old klipsch cabinet...the new end result in my mind is a clone, not an original Klipsch cornwall.....likewise....If I transfer all the old parts from an original amp to a new chasis made by a third party....in my mind, it's also a clone....in both cases...the donor parts came from an original item.

Speakerfritz, I hear you. No one right answer but its an interesting question: when is it a refurb and when does it become a clone?

For me it is a spectrum when something becomes a clone. One criteria is how quickly the original part wears under normal use. For example, at classic VW shows you lose points if your tires arent original (50 year old NOS tires can be purchased - for a price!); but no one calls it a clone if you drove in on new tires.

From your example, wood for a cornwall shouldn't wear out (and the age of the wood can be argued to effect the sound), so I would likely agree. But if someone replaces the speaker fabric off a pair of cornwalls, is it now a clone? Is the only reason we dont call replacing speaker fabric making it a clone because it tends to wear out and rip over time? It could be argued replacing fabric has a greater visual impact than new sides and top.

I would love to find a MC30 chassis that truly looks like new, but even the mint ones these days would be discarded if they came off the factory floor.

I am interested in hearing what you would feel is acceptable to replace without calling a component a clone - caps? tubes? rubber grommets? replacing a K-33-M with a later K-33-P?

Peace - TommyK

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Thanks, sounds like it kills the value not the sound. Market forces at work.

Personally I would be more concerned with clone speaker, Inside dimensions could affect the sound, (maybe for the better maybe not) different foam, structural issue etc.

Remounting wiring could have some EMF affects on a different chassis but this would be very hard to detect?

Logic would say that different operators through the years on the assembly line probably had just as much variability.

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Judging by the bidding you are 100% correct.

Is there some were I can get the Do & Dont's for Tube amps Let warm up for how long? Do not plug in with out Speakers Attached?

Is it a good idea to put a Tube amp after a McIntosh MX132?

If so MC30s? MC240?

Does disconnecting the Gain on MC240 improve the sound?

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No warm up required but tube amps in general sound better after warmed up for a bit... playing music is no more stressfully then being on with no music (unless you over drive them of course).

It's not wise to run a tube amplifier without a load and I'm not sure why someone would do it anyway?

All vintage gear requires a good quality overhaul for reliable operating and performance.

Not sure what your asking about the MX132 ? I have zero experience with the modern McIntosh gear. I'm sure it would work though.

Most folks would say a MC-30 are a bit better then a MC240 overall but either will work. I agree...

disconnecting the gain??? you lost me. Do you mean the gain controls? If so depends on the preamp driving them. What sounds best is best is my motto...

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Thanks.

Wife & Kids will do both of following on a regular bassis for several hours (Speakers will be contected to AMP):

1) Leave amp "ON" but preamp off.

2) Leave amp and preamp "On" with no source being feed to the preamp or amp.

Are either of these bad for a Tube Amp SET or Triode?

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you're overly complicating this....leaving a tube amp on will just result in you replacing tubes every 3 months...the power tubes last approx 1500 - 2000 hrs.

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I know I am paranoid but am I paranoid enough?

Thanks!

I am an Engineer and a Pilot = Over doing the analysis before doing anything. When I fly it is more understandable since if I miss something it could kill me or some one else.

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1500 to 2000 hours in McIntosh amps...... I'd throw and damn thing in the garbage... I logged over 8000 hours on a set of chinese KT-88's in my VRD's but then I tend to get lucky with tubes. McIntosh amps are extremely easy on tubes and it would not surprise me if a guy logged 10,000 hours on a set.

Craig

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1) Leave amp "ON" but preamp off.

2) Leave amp and preamp "On" with no source being feed to the preamp or amp.

Both of these could have possible bad consequences, but it would be no differenct if the amp was SS.

When the amp is on, powering off or on the preamp could cause a transient to hit the speakers... a loud pop. If preamp and amp are both on, the same is true with turning off or on a source, i.e., CD player, tuner. If the volume is turned down on the preamp or the amp has its own set of volume controls and they are down, you shouldn't get the transient. I used to have a little index card with the power up/down sequence for my gear. The wife and kids soon caught on.

Bruce

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I tend to think it's the "details" that count with reproduction attempts such as this. Doing these type of reproductions is an ART FORM, at least with respect to resale/desireability. If it's done RIGHT, I think a good level of resale/desireability can and will be retained.

This would include such details as font lettering used on the chassis, fixtures such as screws/sockets/knobs looking original, proper layout, and so forth. A good litmus test would be the ability to fool one familiar with MC-30s into not realizing it's a "repro", at least until the owner started pointing out the "less visible". Then of course, original trannies would be a MUST (IMO), as well as carefully selected parts and proper rebuild.

I have two sets of these with good (first pair) to very good chassis (second pair), but certainly not perfect. A 7 or 8 out of 10 on the 'Gon sale, though - which would be good enough that I would never consider repro chassis for these. If one had a pair with chassis rust and the ability to fix that by way of repro chassis, these amps ARE worth preserving.....but the resale or appreciation can be variable based on the quality of the work.

Picking up a set with chassis rash on the cheap and doing one's own repro work would be a great project for a DIY'er too.

On powering on/off and tubes:

I simply set up a "switch box" for my MC-30s. I DON'T like leaving mine on all the time, even though they aren't as tough on some tubes as other amps might be. They ARE loaded with "premium NOS brand" smalls, and as tough as those Teles are, I prefer not to just "waste" them.

It's a relatively simple matter to do a little "coaching" session if necessary for family. I have a little "cue card" with 5 easy steps to powering up the system:

1. Turn on CD - wait 15 seconds.

2. Turn on preamp (MX-110) - wait 30 seconds.

3. Turn on power amps (MC-30s) - let warm for 5-10 minutes.

4. OBSERVE AND LISTEN for any noise or tube abnormalties

5. If no issues, PLAY MUSIC :-) If any issues, consult owner :-(

To power down, turn gear off IN REVERSE ORDER.

>>>>>>>>>

In terms of tube life, MC-30s are pretty "reasonable". I have a set of SED winged C outputs with at least 5000 hours on them - probably more - and they work as well as they did with 200 hours on them. Same with NOS RCA 5U4GB "tall boys". Even the used Telefunken 12AX7s I installed are as strong as when I installed them, which is especially notable for the driver 12AX7, because THAT tube does get "worked" in an MC-30 (another reason I use Teles here). If there's ANY tube you might "go through" a little more it's the 12BH7, but those aren't too costly (unless you get RCA blackplates) and still acceptable life from those too (and here, still on my originals, too).

Haven't had much chance to prove or disprove VRD tube life on my own (but from the overall reports, pretty reasonable life has been reported in general), but they do seem to be very comfortable with many of the Shuguang offerings of the recent past, such as Valve Art KT100, Valve Art KT88 (side and top getter), as well as the Penta KT88SC. Especially Penta and VA KT100.....[H]. Not so enthused about the current Russian offerings here. OH - and a BIG FAN of Mullard 5AR4 and Amperexes up front.........YUM. These amps just LOOOOOOOOVE vintage Philips Holland smalls, especially with the cap upgrades....they are truly my reference amplifiers in every sense. EXTREMELY habit forming. It isn't the tube life that I bought VRDs for though - it was the SOUND and specificity of build for my speakers, and when installed on horns will make you forget about blue eyes. VRDs for Heritage is like a tailor made suit.....your system WILL look and sound (especially sound) good in it[:D]

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8000 hrs in VRD's....thats a great selling point...much better than any MC-275, MC-2102, MC-2000 I ever owned.

Slow down now.... I said I tend to get lucky with tubes... I'd never advertise that type of longevity. I'd say 4000 to 5000 hours is the norm. With output tubes it really is the luck of the draw type thing. I tend to get darn lucky with my own tubes for some reason. I have no clue why you would only be getting 1500 to 2000 hours though, sure your not under estimating the hours you have your amps on?

Craig

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Judging by the bidding you are 100% correct.

Comparing the following two auctions for McIntosh MC240's, the reproduction chassis in one didn't seem to hurt the market value.

1. Nice clean original MC240 with cage went for $1526

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190295743868&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D190295743868%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

2. Rebuilt MC240 with a reproduction chassis went for $2292

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190295759728&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D190295759728%2B%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

The work in the second unit was done by Audio Classics, an outfit that has pretty good credibility.

triceratops

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