BEC Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Dave, Which Panny model receiver do you use? Crites uses one, too, but don't know which one. Dee, My Panny is an SA-XR55. Probably the best couple of hundred bucks I have spent on audio. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I got my P-Mac Audio T Amp-20 about 10 days ago and I've listened enough now to be able to provide some feedback. Equipment used: Denon CD spinner, MSB DAC, Creek OBH-10 passive volume attenuator, T-20 or Horus 2A3 SET Monoblocs (2 wpc) The T-20 is a great sounding amp and well worth the money spent. It feels very solid and well built. The connectors on the back are very tight together which made it very difficult for me to attach the speaker wires, but if I had the right plugs on the end it would be cake. The connectors are very good quality. The T-20 is dead quiet at any volume. The volume knob feels pretty good, but not great. The amp is so light that the wires will keep it from sitting straight. Comparing the sound of the T-20 to my Horus SET amps is interesting and maybe not even a fair comparison since the wattages and topologies are so different. The SET's don't really have the best bass so the T-20 should really shine in comparison, but the SET's do have wonderful detailed midrange, which would be a real good test for the T-20 to keep up with. You would think that the T-20 would have better bass and not quite as good midrange detail and clarity. During my listening session, I recorded db levels between 94 and 100 at my listening position with both amps, and I matched the db levels from song to song to compare amps. Both the T-20 and the SET's are a bit shy in the bass. I would not describe the bass from the T-20 as strong, but it does extend very deep. What I really didn't like about the T-20 bass was that it was sloppy, just not enough kick, not fast enough for horns. So in all, I actually preferred the SET's bass because it was better defined and just a bit punchier - quite a surprise. There are definate sonic differences between these two topologies through the whole midrange band, but the T-20 stayed right with the SET's when it came to delivering detail and dynamics. This really surprised me, I could actually be very happy with the T-20 for any critical listening. I give a slight nod to the SET's for being a bit more musical and for overall clarity. The T-20 produced very nice sounding high frequencies with not a hint of harshness or blurring. The drummers stick tapping a cymbal was distinct and cymbal decay was smooth and realistic. If you were here in my living room for a listening session comparing these amps, you'd be thinking the same thing I am; that either the 2A3 is underrated for power output or the T-20 is overrated. The T-20 doesn't sound like ten times the wattage of the SET's. Not having a proper preamp could be the reason though. With my passive all the way up and the volume on the T-20 all the way up, it was never too loud and the amp was never being over-driven. One of these days I'll bring a preamp over from the shop and hook it up. Overall the T-20 shines, but lacks punch. The T-20 makes me want more. I will buy the T-Amp 90 one of these days. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted April 22, 2009 Author Share Posted April 22, 2009 Thanks Bob. Greg, Thanks for the review on the T-20. Your take sounds right with the listening I have done. Listening with Tony Reed, he thought the T-20 was producing some very deep, if not strong bass. I think the T-20 delivers closer to ten honest watts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 My Panny does bass. It's rated at 100w per, but like many digital amps, I suspect the "honest" output is more like 30 or so. That is, of course, more than adequate for 'horns. However, I noticed the same thing you guys are experiencing with the low power d amps with SET. Superb sound and the bass is there, but when you turn it up it's like the bass doesn't come up with the rest. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted April 24, 2009 Author Share Posted April 24, 2009 There is a Panny SA-XR57 7.1 receiver on Ebay now. Probably is a pretty close cousin, except in 7.1. It's about $50 now, but don't know at what it might close in the next day or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 I ordered one of these yesterday (with the upgraded power suppy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 I ordered one of these yesterday (with the upgraded power suppy). What is it Dean? I liked Leo's chip amp for a while but when I got inot better tube amps the smearing of the soundstage and edgy highs were noticable. Typical tube snob comment... I am still pen to new ideas. Leo has a new chip amp he wrote up a while back that sounded like a large improvment but a serious amount of hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blvdre Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 That looks like the virtue two, it has the nicer auricaps. Still haven't had a chance to listen to my one, waiting for crossover parts. Mine has the lower voltage supply, easily upgrade down the road though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted April 25, 2009 Author Share Posted April 25, 2009 Dean, Looking forward to hearing your take. The power supply you ordered is the 30v/130watt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted April 25, 2009 Author Share Posted April 25, 2009 I ordered one of these yesterday (with the upgraded power suppy). What is it Dean? I liked Leo's chip amp for a while but when I got inot better tube amps the smearing of the soundstage and edgy highs were noticable. Typical tube snob comment... I am still pen to new ideas. Leo has a new chip amp he wrote up a while back that sounded like a large improvment but a serious amount of hardware. wow, I missed Leo's post on his new chip amp. Is that a Hypex amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Virtue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 I'm kind of a Tripath freak, so about once a month I search around to see if anyone is doing anything new and interesting with their chips. I came close to pulling the trigger on the Kingsrex T20 several times, but when I lost the Jubilees I had no reason to follow through. I think you really need speakers with a sensitivity in the high 90s to get any real enjoyment out of the lowr powered versions of these amps. Anyways, I was surprised to see this thread and the continuing interest -- I was especially surprised to see that I wasn't the only one who knew about Virtue. As far as the Sonic Impact Super-t and the Trends are concerned, many here who tried them just didn't seem understand that they really only put out one or two really clean watts. Tripath clipping is the worst, and if you don't account for the headroom you need to cover peaks -- you will experience the edginess, grunge, and pain associated with Tripath clipping. These amps are best suited for rooms with a low noise floor, or late night listening where the goal is the best sound possible at low SPLs. The low noise floor of the room is critical, because if you don't have it -- you need to turn up the volume to get above it, and you will find these amps quickly going from graceful to grating. http://www.michael.mardis.com/sonic/sonic3.htm http://www.michael.mardis.com/sonic/measure/power-combo-8.html So, even with fairly efficient loudspeakers, more power is certainly desirable. The Virtue amps are the only ones I've found that provide an adequate amount of power, good power supply filtration, quality build and parts -- at an affordable pricepoint. The sub out was a big selling point with me as well. Yes, Leo went with Hypex modules. You can find nice Hypex amps at www.diycable.com All of these different chips/implementaions (Tripath, Hypex, ICE, Gainclone, etc) sound different. My opinion about the sound of Tripath is that it's quick, crisp and snappy like really good solid state, but much cleaner without the low level hash. It also sounds somewhat lush and rich, and throws a wide expansive soundstage. It won't project out into the room (that 3-D quality like the best tube set ups -- but comes close. You're basically trading some warmth and a bit of the 3-D imaging quality of the better tube rigs for the fast and very clean transients and presentation. Inexpensive Tripath implementations sound better than inexpensive and compromised tube amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 Dean, Thanks for your take on the tripath and other chip amps. Are you still listening to the Crown D45? Never have heard one, but have been curious how they would do next to other options. One thing I was remembering from your earlier posting on the Super T amp that you never found the ST to be improved with a preamp in front of it. Would you expect the same to be true of the Virtue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 I was the only person who bought one of Mark's modified Crown D45s -- and what a shame more didn't invest in the experience. It was a fantastic sounding amp on the Jubilees. The D45 sounds really good. If it has a weakness, it's in the area of soundstaging -- which was kind of flat and two dimensional. Very clean though without the dry sterile quality of most solid state I've heard. Highly recommended -- even in it's stock form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 Dean. I've noticed on Virtue FAQ's some advice on using the Virtue as a power amp with a pre in front. Any hope of this being a realistic option for improved sound? It didn't seem to helpwith the super T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 My opinion about the sound of Tripath is that it's quick, crisp and snappy like really good solid state, but much cleaner without the low level hash. It also sounds somewhat lush and rich, and throws a wide expansive soundstage. It won't project out into the room (that 3-D quality like the best tube set ups -- but comes close. You're basically trading some warmth and a bit of the 3-D imaging quality of the better tube rigs for the fast and very clean transients and presentation. Inexpensive Tripath implementations sound better than inexpensive and compromised tube amps. Boy, that's it right there. Well said. Except I would add my thoughts about the bass not having enough kick, but I suppose that's the low power of my T-20. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 Greg, Yeh. I think you are right. The T-20 does have impressive bass extension, but the t-90 does the power have some kick to it. I've got a Virtue shipping Monday. Do you think you've got the bandwidth for a road trip? Tony Reed and Bob Crites have got the speaker stock to do some meaningful real world testing. Maybe we could get in a little trout fishing, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blvdre Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 A little off topic, but I wanted to follow up on the problem I had mentioned earlier in this thread about my decware switchbox (bad solder work). Steve at decware followed up promptly with me as soon as he received the unit back. This is the only piece of gear they don't build in house, and he whole-heartedly agreed that the solder work was poor. He's working the process problem on their end (re-train and unit QC I imagine), and offered to rework my unit himself w/ higher quality wiring. I've already ordered parts to build my own (w/pots) so declined and opted for a refund, but I thought it was a generous offer. I thought the good customer service was worth mentioning. Back on topic, someone should buy this and let us know what they think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted April 27, 2009 Author Share Posted April 27, 2009 Well, it looks interesting. I did find some posting on an Asian forum. Sounds like it could be a diy kit or something. There are some remarks about white noise being a problem. http://www.review33.com/palm/forum_msg_palm1.php?topic=45080530121731&number=301 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Do you think you've got the bandwidth for a road trip? Road trip to AR! Let's see, I'd have to bring my SET amps, Jamboree bass bins, Jubilees?, passive networks for Jubilees, V-Trac horns with BMS drivers and probably quite a few other things I can't think of right now. It would only take me two days to get there. You'd have to put the worm on the hook for me. LOL. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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