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Since when is $250k a year, middle class?


Hifi jim

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250K a year is not upper middle class in my book. After all the taxes that come out and all the exclusions that are not allowed once you go over 160K (IRA's don't count, tuition paid does not count, etc), the quality of life is still living pay check to pay check.

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Do you not have anything to do there at work that you're supposed to be getting paid to do other than posting on the Klipsch forum using company resources (my assumption of course)??

I guess you're the mind reader now Tom. I'm an electrician as stated in my first post, if I were at work there'd be zero time for computer use, let alone computers to do such. I agree that middle class can be a broad range and that was my question, what do others feel $250k a year is? I thought it simple enough. Those who have chimed in agree, some do not. I also think we need to consider ones location when speaking of wages, and again I pointed to my locale and expenses faced by those in my community. It was not as you implied, a criticism of what they own, nor was I drawing any relationship to me. I was showing examples of what cost of living in my neck of the woods is, and what I consider to be middle class. You drew your own incorrect implications and posted without knowledge of the topic at hand.

To me it's pretty clear that this is nothing more than a vieled attempt at criticising someone for being in a certain income bracket. It's just another wealth envy commentary just as yours are.

I'm pretty sure the The Wall Street Journal is the last place you would read about wealth envy, and I was not making a "wealth envy commentary". Inferring so makes you sound like a rich snob, but I don't want to assume. Wink

Listen, it is not unusual for a 2 income family to make $250K nowadays. I know several.

Here, many school teachers and police officers make $140k, so there are many households that have a combined income of $250k. Considering the high cost of living here, those I know in that position still consider themselves upper middle class. My feeling is, that wage in Tennessee is at the very least upper middle class. And as was pointed out by another poster, this family seems to have extended themselves beyond their means and therefore "feel" middle class. Perhaps if they sold their second home, or cut down on church donations they might feel upper class again.

As for your attempt to portray yourself as superior in intellect with that "but rather placed yourself on higher moral ground and chastised me for raising a point that you missed. A contradiction to say the least." comment. Nice try. Weak - but nice try.

Hardly a "weak" point, you passed judgement when you could have remained silent if you were living up to the moral code that you described. I'm not sure where I portrayed myself as superior in intellect though.

Blah, blah, blah....

You never answered my simple question either. So either you get mine (and others') point and won't answer it or you're just being obstinent.

And why are you at home in the middle of the day and not out working in order to aid the recovery of our economy? Your working generates tax revenues and sitting at home behind a PC does not make you a contributing member of society. And for the record - I am a died in the wool rich snob. I typically have a bad day if I can't wipe my feet on folks the likes of you. Electricians....pshaw.....dime a dozen. Do you bathe?? Remember I'm only saying this 'cause I'm a rich snob. Ahhhhh......the perks of being wealthy. You should try it sometime.

Tom

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I think their "whining" about a potential 3% hike in taxes is a very valid gripe. 

Valid? Yes. Understood my middle class America? No.

You seem to be the one passing judgment on them; you seem to be assessing what their income means to you and artificially declaring whether or not it meets your definition.

Again, I am not passing judgment, only laying out the facts of the story and asking for feedback from what I assumed were middle class Americans on this forum. I've obviously ticked off the rich, elite who wish to have nobody even speak of their wealth. I'm all for people working hard and making the most of themselves and earning whatever the market dictates. What I'm opposed to, is people on good solid financial ground complaining about being unable to make a second house payment when most Americans can't afford the only roof over their heads. Do they want sympathy from us? Understanding? Good luck.

Like it or not you are fixating on a number as it related to your worldview and asking us to evaluate your rationale and then you seem to be getting p!ssed when we disagree or ask why you are fixated on this singular irrelevant issue.

P!ssed? When and where was that? Tom was the one who acted p!ssed and all my attempts to diffuse the situation have been met with more attacks, name calling and deviations from the original post and question. Some people are incapable of discussing politics, religion or money.
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...I'm referring to a Wall Street Journal article about a surgeon living in Tennessee who owns two homes..

Not to nit pick but if we are talking about the same article I believe he rents a home for vacation week a year, does not own a 2nd home.

the vacation home in Sandestin, Fla., comes at a moderate weekly rate because members of Ms. Parnell's extended family own it.

As for rich or not rich, middleclass, middle income or whatever I suspect it all depends on where you stand. From my point of view I don't think there is a huge difference between making 50K a year or 500K. You obviously have to draw the line somewhere, but I would hazard a guess that a family making $250K a year is still only a major illness, catastrophic accident or some very bad luck away from skid row much like the family making 50K.

Once you have so many houses you can't keep track of the count or planes and boats with their own staffs I think we could all agree they are rich. These are the people that are thrilled you all are arguing over what amounts to them as crumbs. Once they have you locked into a mortgage and car payments we are all the same good little worker bees. Some might have just a bit more honey but we are all drones. Robber barons and coal miners a few generations ago or suburbanites with halved 401Ks are we really all that different?

Me, I have been Rich with a capitol "R" since the day I was born.[;)] Thanks mom! Now money is another story.

Life is a $hit sandwich...the more dough you have the less $hit you have to eat.[6]

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Not to nit pick but if we are talking about the same article I believe he rents a home for vacation week a year, does not own a 2nd home.

You are correct Rich. I misread one of the last lines of the article, which stated a second mortgage, I'm guessing it's a second mortgage on their primary residence then? But I see a big difference between 50k and 500k, like ten times the difference, and a completely different lifestyle. At 50k one is cutting coupons and struggling to make rent, that's not typical of a person earning 500k. The person earning 50k, probably has health insurance, or they might not if they can't afford it. At 500k, health insurance is affordable. But I see your points.
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But I see a big difference between 50k and 500k, like ten times the difference, and a completely different lifestyle. At 50k one is cutting coupons and struggling to make rent, that's not typical of a person earning 500k. The person earning 50k, probably has health insurance, or they might not if they can't afford it. At 500k, health insurance is affordable. But I see your points.

I guess everyone's definition of completely different lifestyle can differ but I can offer up this perspective reflecting on about the last 18 years of my life. At one point I was going to College part time, working 3 different part time jobs. I made about $22K a year. I bought a foreclosed house in the hood and had two room mates, that paid me rent. I could hear gunshots from time to time. The house was 900sq feet, needed lots of repairs and only had one bathroom...but I was not paying rent I was living the home owners dream. <<--sarcasm. I was hoping to get out of college and make $40K a year as that seemed like a princely sum, and most of the people a few years into the work force were making in the 35-45 range. It seemed like all my worries would be solved and I would be on easy street. I also drove a used car that broke down all the time. I lived paycheck to paycheck.

Years later I have a much bigger house, not in the hood. I have two cars 5 and 9 years old. They hardly ever break down, but still need tires, brakes, etc and they cost a lot more then they did for the beater car. My property tax is more per month then my house payment was back in the hood. I have 4 bathrooms that need cleaning just as often as the 1 bathroom did. All my utilities cost way more. I pay for 100% of my health insurance now. I only have one job, but I work way more hours then I did when I had 3 jobs. I am doing pretty good for myself and am happy. I don't feel guilty for it either. Still my life has not really changed all that much.

The long winded point I am trying to make is that 10K dollars a year or even 100K dollars a year is not going to change your life. You might think it will but it wont. I once heard "you never make enough money, your spending habits just go up". That seemed silly to me when I was making about $12K a year as an E-3 in the Navy. That 0-2 seems like a genius now. I thought he was rich...he was not. You need many orders of magnitute to change things. We are all broke.

Listen to what Chris Rock has to say some time about the difference between Rich and Wealthy. Pay close attention to what he has to say about Bill Gates waking up some day with Oprah's money. Very funny!

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250K a year is not upper middle class in my book. After all the taxes that come out and all the exclusions that are not allowed once you go over 160K (IRA's don't count, tuition paid does not count, etc), the quality of life is still living pay check to pay check.

well you are in NY. no wonder.......but be a patriot and send me some. no need to send to the govt to send to me, just send straight to me. and oh, by the way, you need to work a little harder next year. i need a boat. thanks.

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At the risk of being blunt.....

Who gives a crap??

More importantly....why do YOU give a crap? You say you're not concerned about who makes what, but then level some criticism about what they own and try and draw some relationship to you. WHY DO YOU CARE??????

some people are only happy when others are just as miserable as they are. elitist i think.....

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"you never make enough money, your spending habits just go up".

I agree Rich and see your point of view, and have had a very similar experience in the past 15 years. My point is, that at 50k basic necessities such as health insurance, car insurance and maintenance, cable bills, etc. are even hard to afford. At 500k, the person will obviously have a larger house, with more expenses than the person sliding by on 50k. But at 500k, health insurance is affordable, so is car insurance, so is the cable bill. The person earning 500k goes on vacation every year. The person earning 50k saves for vacation and goes when they can afford to take time off. I earn a good salary that affords me many luxuries such as audio equipment. I have friends who earn less, and therefore are unable to afford even a simple home theater system. And I have friends who make much more and want me to join them on a European vacation which is simply unattainable for me. To me, there are lots of differences between 50k and 500k.
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But I see a big difference between 50k and 500k, like ten times the difference, and a completely different lifestyle. At 50k one is cutting coupons and struggling to make rent, that's not typical of a person earning 500k. The person earning 50k, probably has health insurance, or they might not if they can't afford it. At 500k, health insurance is affordable. But I see your points.

I guess everyone's definition of completely different lifestyle can differ but I can offer up this perspective reflecting on about the last 18 years of my life. At one point I was going to College part time, working 3 different part time jobs. I made about $22K a year. I bought a foreclosed house in the hood and had two room mates, that paid me rent. I could hear gunshots from time to time. The house was 900sq feet, needed lots of repairs and only had one bathroom...but I was not paying rent I was living the home owners dream. <<--sarcasm. I was hoping to get out of college and make $40K a year as that seemed like a princely sum, and most of the people a few years into the work force were making in the 35-45 range. It seemed like all my worries would be solved and I would be on easy street. I also drove a used car that broke down all the time. I lived paycheck to paycheck.

Years later I have a much bigger house, not in the hood. I have two cars 5 and 9 years old. They hardly ever break down, but still need tires, brakes, etc and they cost a lot more then they did for the beater car. My property tax is more per month then my house payment was back in the hood. I have 4 bathrooms that need cleaning just as often as the 1 bathroom did. All my utilities cost way more. I pay for 100% of my health insurance now. I only have one job, but I work way more hours then I did when I had 3 jobs. I am doing pretty good for myself and am happy. I don't feel guilty for it either. Still my life has not really changed all that much.

The long winded point I am trying to make is that 10K dollars a year or even 100K dollars a year is not going to change your life. You might think it will but it wont. I once heard "you never make enough money, your spending habits just go up". That seemed silly to me when I was making about $12K a year as an E-3 in the Navy. That 0-2 seems like a genius now. I thought he was rich...he was not. You need many orders of magnitute to change things. We are all broke.

Listen to what Chris Rock has to say some time about the difference between Rich and Wealthy. Pay close attention to what he has to say about Bill Gates waking up some day with Oprah's money. Very funny!

very well said.

Here is the link to Rock's comic post on YouTube.

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But I see a big difference between 50k and 500k, like ten times the difference, and a completely different lifestyle. At 50k one is cutting coupons and struggling to make rent, that's not typical of a person earning 500k. The person earning 50k, probably has health insurance, or they might not if they can't afford it. At 500k, health insurance is affordable. But I see your points.

I guess everyone's definition of completely different lifestyle can differ but I can offer up this perspective reflecting on about the last 18 years of my life. At one point I was going to College part time, working 3 different part time jobs. I made about $22K a year. I bought a foreclosed house in the hood and had two room mates, that paid me rent. I could hear gunshots from time to time. The house was 900sq feet, needed lots of repairs and only had one bathroom...but I was not paying rent I was living the home owners dream. <<--sarcasm. I was hoping to get out of college and make $40K a year as that seemed like a princely sum, and most of the people a few years into the work force were making in the 35-45 range. It seemed like all my worries would be solved and I would be on easy street. I also drove a used car that broke down all the time. I lived paycheck to paycheck.

Years later I have a much bigger house, not in the hood. I have two cars 5 and 9 years old. They hardly ever break down, but still need tires, brakes, etc and they cost a lot more then they did for the beater car. My property tax is more per month then my house payment was back in the hood. I have 4 bathrooms that need cleaning just as often as the 1 bathroom did. All my utilities cost way more. I pay for 100% of my health insurance now. I only have one job, but I work way more hours then I did when I had 3 jobs. I am doing pretty good for myself and am happy. I don't feel guilty for it either. Still my life has not really changed all that much.

The long winded point I am trying to make is that 10K dollars a year or even 100K dollars a year is not going to change your life. You might think it will but it wont. I once heard "you never make enough money, your spending habits just go up". That seemed silly to me when I was making about $12K a year as an E-3 in the Navy. That 0-2 seems like a genius now. I thought he was rich...he was not. You need many orders of magnitute to change things. We are all broke.

Listen to what Chris Rock has to say some time about the difference between Rich and Wealthy. Pay close attention to what he has to say about Bill Gates waking up some day with Oprah's money. Very funny!

[Y] Well said.

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250K a year is not upper middle class in my book. After all the taxes that come out and all the exclusions that are not allowed once you go over 160K (IRA's don't count, tuition paid does not count, etc), the quality of life is still living pay check to pay check.

well you are in NY. no wonder.......but be a patriot and send me some. no need to send to the govt to send to me, just send straight to me. and oh, by the way, you need to work a little harder next year. i need a boat. thanks.

anything to help....you can be my dependent relative if you make less than 3500 a year according to rule dependent #2......my 3 children who are in graduate school and live with me and do not work are not my dependents anymore becuase they are over 24...even though I provide all of their support according to dependent rule #1.

seriously, if you folks think 250K a year is living high on the hog....run you present data through a tax calculator using 250k as income....you will find that even claiming single with zero dependents through out the year...you will be writing double 5 digit checks to the IRS, state, and local gov...each.

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