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Since when is $250k a year, middle class?


Hifi jim

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$260k/year is most certainly NOT middle class. Doing a quick search on the internet, it seems that as of the 2005 census, that income puts you in the top 1.5%.

Having 98.5% of households making less than you does not make you middle class by any stretch of the imagination.

Myself, I tend to think less in terms of middle/upper class than in terms of working and investment classes. You've got people who trade their time for a salary or who run a business from which they make their living, and then you have people who have great wealth coupled with the option of not working -- entertainers, very successful businesspeople, executive, entertainers, or folks who by amazing hard work and intelligence (or luck of winning the genetic lottery) gather all the income they need from returns on investments.

You make a great point and the way you've framed it is certainly sensible.

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I've not found it possible to purchase happiness anywhere. If anyone knows an outlet store that has some on sale, please forward info.

Been unemployed since June 3 of last year (yes the first of the awful cuts) and having a blast. Work is over-rated.

M

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Been unemployed since June 3 of last year (yes the first of the awful cuts)

Sorry to say I've got you beat Michael. I was hurt on the job 12/26/07, laid off 1/08/08. Actually construction work started to tank here in about 06, the upside is it should start to hopefully pick back up this summer. I had surgery in August for a torn labrum in my shoulder, and I'm still doing physical therapy 3 times a week for herniations in my neck. This might answer Toms question as to why I'm allowed to use the computer during the day, I suppose he's the only productive daytime computer blogger. Not that I want to be confused for, as someone so eloquently put it, "some sorry sob settin' home sellin' the pills they get for free". If I was still receiving pills, I wouldn't be sellin' them. [:|] Remember Michael, "This too shall pass" ~ King Solomon.
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$260k/year is most certainly NOT middle class. Doing a quick search on the internet, it seems that as of the 2005 census, that income puts you in the top 1.5%.

Having 98.5% of households making less than you does not make you middle class by any stretch of the imagination.


There's some clear and simple logic, backed up by numbers. Thanks!

First, I am pretty sure the census happens every 10 years on years that end with "10" like 1960, 1970, 1980, etc. At least that is what I learned in my public high school civics class. Now if all you do is look at the first returned link in a Google search and check wiki you can see that the census bureau puts out info more then every 10 years, but don't confuse that with the "census". BTW, people pay lots of money to get search results returned on the first page of google. It is BIG business. I find a good rule of thumb is don't believe anything you hear and half the stuff you read/see.

Second, ever wonder why everything seems to be based on a 50K, 100K or 250K annual incomes when it comes to discussions on TV, radio or in published stats from the government?[:^)] My cynical mind says because they can show things like 15% of the people make 100,000 or more or even better 1.5% make 250,000 or more. That sounds like a small percentage and if you make 50-75K then you are pissed off...or they hope you are pissed off at the guy on which the number falls like 100K or 250K. Your are focused on that number not the nuber beyond it where most of the "information providers" fall. You never (at least I cannot recall) stats like X% make over 10 million a year. Heck, I don't think making, and I mean making with hard work, a million a year is really that far fetched. If you are a business owner and employ a handful of people and pay your taxes god bless you for making a million a year, rock on, more power to ya. I bet most of us here do not and would like to; and in turn be happy to pay more taxes IF the tax on that 100K was spent wisely.

So how about you stat-regurgitators and Google wizards come back and tell me how many people make more then say 10 million a year. Then tell me how much in dollars they pay on taxes compared to the small business owner that makes a million a year. I bet you would be shocked. Those people and the people (on both sides of the isle) that allow that to continue are who you should put under the microscope. Not some guy with a solid work ethic, that maybe caught a break or two in life and makes a few bucks more then you do.

How much a year do you think Cattie, Brian, Rush, Oberman, or pick your favorite/least favorite TV/Radio personality makes a year. I bet it is a lot more then some run of the mill Dr. in TN. How about the corps. that own and produce these TV/Radio programs, what to they make and what do they pay?

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My cynical mind says because they can show things like 15% of the people make 100,000 or more or even better 1.5% make 250,000 or more. That sounds like a small percentage and if you make 50-75K then you are pissed off...or they hope you are pissed off at the guy on which the number falls like 100K or 250K.

My question is why does this keep turning into a wealth envy scenario, when the original question was nothing more than, what defines middle class? According to the United States Census Bureau, the pretax median househould income in 2007 was $50,233.
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It's all relative. I would think that making $250K a year in Tenn would yield you a comfortable existance. By that I mean a nice house in a gated community on a golf course with a swimming pool. By anyone's standards decidedly 'Upper Middle Class". In NYC and it's surrounding communities, a more middle of the pack lifestyle. Hi-Fi Jim, you know $250K wouldn't buy you an outhouse in either Old Brookville or East Hampton or any of the other dozens of fine areas in the metropolitan area.

It SHOULD allow you a comfortable life where you could save money, afford a nice house on LI and perhaps send your kids to private school. By no stretch of the imagination would that be Upper Middle Class, in the metropolitan area.

I tell young people who live in Manhattan to not even think about owning a car until they make $100K+. Rent on those occasions you need one, save yourself the insurance etc. Here's why:

Salary: $!00,000 Less taxes roughly 36%, (Feds, NY State & NYC has a lovely 4% resident tax going up to 6 1/2%), So now you have $64000

Fully fund your 401K (15K) and IRA (4K) leaves you $45000

Rent on a studio apartment in a reasonable neighborhood $2,000 per month, $24000 per annum. Now you have $21,000

Cell Phone, cable and Internet access runs $200 per month ($2400 per year). Subway to work $5 per day X 220 days = $1100 Leaves you $17500

A conservative food budget of $500 per month runs you $6000 a year, now you have $11500

Out of this you have to contribute to your health insurance, buy clothing. entertainment, etc, an average dinner date will run you $100, heck movies in Manhattan are $10 a pop. Oh and save some money while you are at it. In a city where it costs $4.50 to dry clean a shirt and an indoor garage space runs $450 a month that doesn't leave a whole heck of a lot of wiggle room.

These numbers are just food for thought but they are realistic here in Manhattan.

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Stephen, you definitely have shown an accurate account for expenses in Manhattan. Nonetheless, are those not expenses and choices made by the individual. Try living in Manhattan on $50k, unless you're in a rent controlled apartment it won't happen. To define middle class, I'm not thinking about purchasing power, but rather what the average American income is. $250k is far higher than what the average American makes in a year. The average American worker cannot afford to live in Manhattan, or Old Brookville, East Hampton, or San Francisco, these are the residences of the wealthy. These communities are by and large void of middle class. On the other hand, as I stated in my first post, even here on pricey Long Island $250k a year provides an upper middle class lifestyle. Those I know in that tax bracket, live quite comfortably here especially compared to a middle income family.

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Depends on where you are:

In Hannover average income (General) is around 40 to 45K €, if you make around 80 to 100K € you are moving into the upper middle class.

Buy a house in Hannover you shell out around 280.000€ (around 100 to 120m² with up to 1000m² property) go 20 Km outside Hannover and you get the same house for 140.000€ and up to 3000m² property.

Everythings relative but I would say you are very much in the upper middle and could live "well" off of $250k/year.

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To Stephen and HiFi jim's point. Like a few other area's, $250K in the metro area of NY is not a lot for a family. You need to make atleast $150k to sustain a married couple in one of the cheaper houses...and those people consider themselves 'house poor' (borrowing that phrase from a co-worker). Look at what they say the median price of a house is in the US....what like $180K. Median price of a house on LI in NY is over $400k. This is 'the cheapest' house in my neighborhood. By no means is the neighborhood the nicest or the worst area, and your area 3hour a day commute into and out of Manhattan. That commute will cost you currently over $300 a month in train tickets, and they are raising commuting costs by 25% come June! Yes I can find houses cheaper further away from NYC, but there becomes a point where the commute length becomes to overwhelming.

$250k in the metro area, middle class? Yes. Other areas? Depends on area.

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Hifi jim wrote " I'll take it. From my middles class seat, that looks rich"

That's the problem, you want to take it. Why don't you go to medschool, move to Tennesee start a practice and earn it.

No, they aren't middle class soo what? They are rich compared to some, mostly those that make less, they are middle class to those that make more than they do. It's all relative.

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250k is definately middle class today! So is 500k really! The problem with our economic system can be boiled down to one thing - the lack of a "Gold Standard" on our dollar. If you look closely at financial statistics (and I can verify all of these) you will see that when Richard Nixon took our dollar off of the Gold Standard it had been on for our entire country's existance, our dollar started inflating immediately. Now, our Federal Reserve prints money for absolutely no reason other than to pay off all of the interest on all of the loans in our country.

Back when Nixon did this, the US had only accumulated around 1 Trillion in TOTAL dollars. That means from the 1700's to the late 1900's, our country had only accumulated around 1 trillion in TOTAL money! Now, we accumulate a trillion every 4.6 months! Seriously sit down and think about that, then google it. Then open your eyes!

If you look at post war Germany or Russia or Rome or wherever FIAT currency has been used - every single example has failed! Anytime a government devalues their currency (removes a real standard from it, ie gold or silver or whatever) that government will continually print money hand over fist - it's not a US problem, it's a world problem and in my opinion the biggest issue with America is the fact that our citizens are essentially blind to how money works and really how government works. I just wish everyone would read a book now and again!

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That's the problem, you want to take it.  Why don't you go to medschool, move to Tennesee start a practice  and earn it.

There is no problem and I don't wish to "take it". I earn my money the hard way, I work for it the same as the good doctor from Tennessee does. Obviously tongue in cheek statements slip past some. Please, I feel this is getting old here. I am not envious of this mans money. I'm ticked off that a homemaker married to a doctor was quoted as saying she thought she was middle class, and there needs to be a reality check on what rich is. This to me, was a ludicrous statement given todays financial strains on truly middle class folks. I make a great salary (when I get back to work), and have tremendous benefits. I've worked hard to reach this level and feel I have earned it. I have no problem with those who have studied and worked even harder to make enough money to be, lets face it: upper middle class. 50 grand is 50 grand no matter the locale. What you can purchase with that $50k is all that changes. It's the purchasing power of that dollar that changes, not the economic class. $250k anywhere in this country is a good amount of money to earn each year, and by far more than average. It is the top percentile of American incomes, is that "middle" class?
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I work in a lumber yard.

"What's wrong with lumber? I own two lumber yards." ~ Ty Webb, Caddyshack

 

Danny Noonan:  I don't see you spending much time there

Ty Webb: I am not sure where they are actually

LOL. Thanks for the comic relief J.4knee!
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